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+--- Thread: Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein-Ingram Trade Inevitable| LAL Want Lebron Back On Any Terms (/showthread.php?tid=2444)
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RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Mavs connected with Kuz, Wiggs, PJ, Grant, and DFS - KillerLeft - 02-03-2024
Please, no first going out for Kuzma. If that's the price just please, God, no.
![[Image: nope-no-god-please-no.gif]](https://media.tenor.com/2aTLTkjCH2IAAAAM/nope-no-god-please-no.gif)
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Mavs connected with Kuz, Wiggs, PJ, Grant, and DFS - SleepingHero - 02-03-2024
I'm curious on your thoughts Dan between a deal for Wiggins where the Mavs get an asset (say Looney, or Moody, or 2nds), vs for Kuzma where the Mavs have to send out 2027 and 1 of Omax, Hardy, Green.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Mavs connected with Kuz, Wiggs, PJ, Grant, and DFS - youzigizag - 02-03-2024
I have no clue what is real and what isnt...I am aware you cant believe everything on the internet...
A guy on Dallas Mavs RealGM page who's a Wizards fan chimed in saying that Kuzma isnt too bad. Guy thinks he would be good here. Claims Kuzma rises to the occasion on defense against stars but then other nights doesnt care. Also claims Kuzma is asked to do too much in Washington which hurts his optics. Claims Kuzma takes too many contested jumpers.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Mavs connected with Kuz, Wiggs, PJ, Grant, and DFS - DanSchwartzgan - 02-03-2024
Stein (and Fischer agreed) thought it would be 2027 and OMax (or Hardy) for Kuzma...not Kuzma and Gafford as I've proposed. Just Kuzma.
I also listened to Hardwood Knocks go through the west just now. They would not give up even a first for Kuzma, but would give up a first-plus for Grant. They think that is the move they should do if they can. They also believe Dallas won't do any better than that this summer. As I've said before, Dallas having 3 firsts is meaningless when multiple teams have better assets and more picks to offer anyone worth having.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Mavs connected with Kuz, Wiggs, PJ, Grant, and DFS - SleepingHero - 02-03-2024
@ProxenFPS
The Dallas Mavericks reportedly received multiple offers of THREE first-round picks for Tim Hardaway Jr, per
@HPbasketball
“Two league sources said the Mavs have claimed multiple offers of three first-rounders for Tim Hardaway Jr,”
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Mavs connected with Kuz, Wiggs, PJ, Grant, and DFS - mvossman - 02-03-2024
(02-03-2024, 02:38 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Stein (and Fischer agreed) thought it would be 2027 and OMax (or Hardy) for Kuzma...not Kuzma and Gafford as I've proposed. Just Kuzma.
I also listened to Hardwood Knocks go through the west just now. They would not give up even a first for Kuzma, but would give up a first-plus for Grant. They think that is the move they should do if they can. They also believe Dallas won't do any better than that this summer. As I've said before, Dallas having 3 firsts is meaningless when multiple teams have better assets and more picks to offer anyone worth having.
I disagree with having 3 picks being worthless because there are other teams that have more. We just watched Siakam get traded for 3 picks. Just because other teams have more picks doesn't mean they will use them. Given my low opinion of Kuz, I find it wildly unlikely we can't find something better with 3 picks available in the offseason.
So if you are making the call, would you send a first and Omax for Kuz?
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Mavs connected with Kuz, Wiggs, PJ, Grant, and DFS - DanSchwartzgan - 02-03-2024
(02-03-2024, 02:30 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: I'm curious on your thoughts Dan between a deal for Wiggins where the Mavs get an asset (say Looney, or Moody, or 2nds), vs for Kuzma where the Mavs have to send out 2027 and 1 of Omax, Hardy, Green.
Interesting question.
I think Wiggins is the better defender, the worse contract and the bigger overall risk but also the bigger overall reward for what Dallas needs. I don't think they'll give up Moody in a Wiggins Dump (I would do a Moody for Hardy swap through).
Looney doesn't wow me as much as some other ideas. Same with second(s). I would take Jackson-Davis as a sweetener and call it a day as a way of holding down the cost of my backup big spot.
I think Kuzma is the better offensive player, by far the better contract and the bigger risk on the defensive end. Apparently I have to continue to point out that my OMax/2027 deal was for Kuzma and Gafford (your question makes it sound like I proposed both for just Kuzma...which is what Stein thinks it will cost). If the alternative is Wiggins/TJD and we keep OMax and 2027, then that is obviously the better move (realistic? I don't know). If Kuzma ever just quits on you, it will only be at one end of the floor. If Wiggins ever quits on you, it might be at both (which is what I mean by risk). You have to get comfortable that recent Wiggins is real and last 12 months Wiggins is the aberration.
I could see a big messy deal involving all three teams. GS could use any of Tyus Jones, Gafford and some guys from our roster like GWill or THJ. Washington could use any number of the young assets and picks GS and Dallas have. Dallas could be in play for Wiggins or Kuzma in a 3 way and pick up a backup big. And there are enough TPE's that GS could save a ton of money in the process and Dallas might stay under the tax. In such a deal, it might be so messy that it is hard to pin down what the cost of each player actually was (which is kind of the point). I could see that happening. I think we are better with either Wiggins or Kuzma compared to THJ and I'd like to get a backup big in the process.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Mavs connected with Kuz, Wiggs, PJ, Grant, and DFS - mvossman - 02-03-2024
(02-03-2024, 03:00 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: @ProxenFPS
The Dallas Mavericks reportedly received multiple offers of THREE first-round picks for Tim Hardaway Jr, per
@HPbasketball
“Two league sources said the Mavs have claimed multiple offers of three first-rounders for Tim Hardaway Jr,”
Is this a joke?
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Mavs connected with Kuz, Wiggs, PJ, Grant, and DFS - dirkfansince1998 - 02-03-2024
(02-03-2024, 03:00 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: @ProxenFPS
The Dallas Mavericks reportedly received multiple offers of THREE first-round picks for Tim Hardaway Jr, per
@HPbasketball
“Two league sources said the Mavs have claimed multiple offers of three first-rounders for Tim Hardaway Jr,”
Make up a story to increase the interest/price. Fine. But at least make it somewhat believable.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Mavs connected with Kuz, Wiggs, PJ, Grant, and DFS - loki - 02-03-2024
(02-03-2024, 02:38 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: They also believe Dallas won't do any better than that this summer. As I've said before, Dallas having 3 firsts is meaningless when multiple teams have better assets and more picks to offer anyone worth having.
This is unfortunately why I think they'll pull the trigger. Options are really running thin. At least if you gamble on Kuzma his contract won't kill you.
I think the struggle to find a starting PF is really highlighting the difficulty in building around Luka/Kyrie. Whoever fills that role has to be your primary wing defender, which rules out the 4/5 bigs. But if you play with a smaller SF type along with an Exum/Green as your POA defender, you've somehow managed to build an undersized lineup around a 6'7" point guard and 7'1" center.
Kuzma is one of the few guys who at least fits the physical profile of what they need. It's a shame they didn't just trade for Aaron Gordon when he was available.
(02-03-2024, 03:01 PM)mvossman Wrote: Is this a joke?
Top 30 protected. Turns into a ham sandwich and a bag of Cool Ranch Doritos.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Mavs connected with Kuz, Wiggs, PJ, Grant, and DFS - dirkfansince1998 - 02-03-2024
Feels like it is time for the return of an all time classic.
![[Image: EU4OhThUUAABVTu?format=jpg&name=360x360]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EU4OhThUUAABVTu?format=jpg&name=360x360)
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Mavs connected with Kuz, Wiggs, PJ, Grant, and DFS - loki - 02-03-2024
(02-03-2024, 03:00 PM)mvossman Wrote: I disagree with having 3 picks being worthless because there are other teams that have more. We just watched Siakam get traded for 3 picks. Just because other teams have more picks doesn't mean they will use them. Given my low opinion of Kuz, I find it wildly unlikely we can't find something better with 3 picks available in the offseason.
Mikal Bridges is the one guy I see who doesn't have any major warts. If Brooklyn won't deal him to Houston for their picks back (which should be a fireable offense for the Nets GM imo), I see absolutely no chance they will deal him for the Mavs 3 picks.
After that you're getting straight back into the Grant/Kuzma/Washington types.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Mavs connected with Kuz, Wiggs, PJ, Grant, and DFS - DanSchwartzgan - 02-03-2024
(02-03-2024, 03:00 PM)mvossman Wrote: So if you are making the call, would you send a first and Omax for Kuz?
As I've said before, that feels like too much...though Stein just said that would likely be the price.
Could I tinker around the edges and get there? Maybe.
What is the salary match? Holmes/Curry? Or, THJ or GWill? It matters.
Do I have anything else lined up for Holmes/GWill or THJ?
What protections on the pick? Can I get back a second?
Am I saving money or adding money (now and this summer)? It matters.
Am I creating a $12mm TPE with whatever deal I cut? Maybe I can use that this summer.
If you are trying to play gotcha, Dan's the idiot who a few years ago wanted to trade all-star Omax AND a pick way back in 2024 for washed up selfish chucker Kuzma, then feel free to play. I'm more interested in looking at nuances than absolutes and try to find things I might could get comfortable with or I might value if something like this were to happen.
(02-03-2024, 03:05 PM)loki Wrote:
Top 30 protected. Turns into a ham sandwich and a bag of Cool Ranch Doritos.
It does bring up an interesting question. If Luka was injured and out for the season and a team with an expiring contract of a player with no on-court value came calling for THJ. What would it take to say yes.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Mavs connected with Kuz, Wiggs, PJ, Grant, and DFS - mvossman - 02-03-2024
(02-03-2024, 03:11 PM)loki Wrote: Mikal Bridges is the one guy I see who doesn't have any major warts. If Brooklyn won't deal him to Houston for their picks back (which should be a fireable offense for the Nets GM imo), I see absolutely no chance they will deal him for the Mavs 3 picks.
After that you're getting straight back into the Grant/Kuzma/Washington types.
Who knows who might be available in the offseason. I would prefer Cam Jonson to those guys.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Mavs connected with Kuz, Wiggs, PJ, Grant, and DFS - Chicagojk - 02-03-2024
(02-03-2024, 02:38 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Stein (and Fischer agreed) thought it would be 2027 and OMax (or Hardy) for Kuzma...not Kuzma and Gafford as I've proposed. Just Kuzma.
I also listened to Hardwood Knocks go through the west just now. They would not give up even a first for Kuzma, but would give up a first-plus for Grant. They think that is the move they should do if they can. They also believe Dallas won't do any better than that this summer. As I've said before, Dallas having 3 firsts is meaningless when multiple teams have better assets and more picks to offer anyone worth having.
Thanks for sharing. For me Omax and 27 would be too much. Maybe it is the new care feeling but i don't want to give up Omax in a trade like this. My offer would be '27 and what we could get for Hardaway in a three team deal. Maybe Hardaway just doesn't have any value in the trade market, so that would limit my deals.
I have thought the best course of action is to be patient and wait until the offseason. But if feels like Dallas is feeling a lot of pressure right now. Is that from Luka? From new ownership? Or the pure embarrassment to have such a great player and being an also ran? Regardless, panic moves concern me greatly. We can all set the market for this summer that expirings and two firsts will get you Grant. But there are other teams plus Portland. What happens if Portland doesn't like our offer or what happens if someone offers a better package. There is a risk in waiting too.
So if Kuzma is 27 and Omax plus salary, I am out. Then the rest of the season is an evaluation if Kidd and Nico should be back depending how the rest of the season goes. This is a business. When you have Luka you should have the best GM and coach you can find. The rest of the season would be an evaluation for me.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Mavs connected with Kuz, Wiggs, PJ, Grant, and DFS - loki - 02-03-2024
(02-03-2024, 03:15 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: It does bring up an interesting question. If Luka was injured and out for the season and a team with an expiring contract of a player with no on-court value came calling for THJ. What would it take to say yes.
That's a tough one because they may need THJ's expiring contract in the offseason for any bigger deal they hope to pull off. If you could get a 1st you certainly move him, but I don't think that's likely. A few 2nds on the other hand might not be worth the hassle.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Mavs connected with Kuz, Wiggs, PJ, Grant, and DFS - mvossman - 02-03-2024
(02-03-2024, 03:15 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: If you are trying to play gotcha, Dan's the idiot who a few years ago wanted to trade all-star Omax AND a pick way back in 2024 for washed up selfish chucker Kuzma, then feel free to play. I'm more interested in looking at nuances than absolutes and try to find things I might could get comfortable with or I might value if something like this were to happen.
I'm not trying to play "gotcha". Just curious where you stood. A lot of your posts seem more about what it would cost than what you would do, so just curious where your line was. When I make negative responses to your posts, its not about disparaging your view, its complaining about the presumed cost.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Mavs connected with Kuz, Wiggs, PJ, Grant, and DFS - DallasMaverick - 02-03-2024
(02-03-2024, 03:11 PM)loki Wrote: Mikal Bridges is the one guy I see who doesn't have any major warts. If Brooklyn won't deal him to Houston for their picks back (which should be a fireable offense for the Nets GM imo), I see absolutely no chance they will deal him for the Mavs 3 picks.
After that you're getting straight back into the Grant/Kuzma/Washington types.
Yes, Bridges doesn't have any warts. But you misspelled his first name.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Mavs connected with Kuz, Wiggs, PJ, Grant, and DFS - The Jom - 02-03-2024
What if it’s both? Kuz & Wiggs?
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Mavs connected with Kuz, Wiggs, PJ, Grant, and DFS - mvossman - 02-03-2024
(02-03-2024, 03:29 PM)DallasMaverick Wrote: Yes, Bridges doesn't have any warts. But you misspelled his first name.
This is such a strange bit.