(05-19-2023, 12:15 PM)F Gump Wrote: As I read through these various ideas, I find myself incredibly pessimistic over all of it. The thing that's is most concerning is that year after year, Cuban has eroded what little talent they had AND has frittered away assets, so that now the cupboard is almost completely bare of ways to build around Luka and Kyrie.

This is not new. Cuban's choices since the title, with no clue as to how to amass assets and gather talent, despite always having a Hall of Fame talent on the roster to attract players, have been one self-destructive choice after another. Just no clue.

Destroying a title team because Cuban was supposedly super smart about how to use the 2011 CBA. Bypassing a generational 2-way player because Cuban had a better roster building idea. His highlights were signing a damaged-goods Parsons to a giant contract, signing a damaged-goods Matthews to a giant contract, signing a decent F Barnes to a giant contract, and signing a washed-and-lazy Jordan to a giant contract.

Trading FOR Porzingis (with the necessary contract that entailed, and loss of draft capital in MANY ways) was an asset killer. There's still more payment due for that move.

And then bringing in a new untrained GM (to make wise decisions) who knows nothing about player evaluation and had no experience in ANY of the GM skills.

Signing THJ to a giant contract.
Signing Bullock, who was good for a year, then a liability thereafter.
Trading AWAY Porzingis (taking bad contracts and spending another pick, for a unicorn) was further drain on assets. Cuban paid a fortune in assets to get him, and then paid again to get rid of him. That's awful.
The asset drain from the Brunson fiasco was huge.
The Wood decision was another one, frittering away opportunity and a pick.
The McGee decision took a roster spot and payroll, and also cost an opportunity to sign someone who would be a plus.

There's basically nothing to work with now. Just a pile of mediocre players with bad contracts.

They need a genius in roster building. Instead they have Cuban running the ship (the blind leading the blind, as it's said), whose choices have been one disaster after another. He has no clue. So I can't see how there's a path to a good team ahead.

(05-19-2023, 12:36 PM)omahen Wrote: If Kyrie leaves, Mavs can start looking for best deal for Luka and start a rebuild. No way back from there. I just don't believe any SnT would bring more than half what Mavs gave up for him. Kyrie was a gamble on a distressed asset. If works it could lift Mavs to a contender status. If it flames out, Mavs don't have nearly enough to recover.

(05-19-2023, 12:33 PM)BigDirk41 Wrote: Kryie for Ayton makes us worse. Like or dislike Kyrie, he's arguably a top 10 NBA talent. If Ayton was Mutombo on defense, I would agree, but he's not.

(05-19-2023, 12:15 PM)F Gump Wrote: As I read through these various ideas, I find myself incredibly pessimistic over all of it. The thing that's is most concerning is that year after year, Cuban has eroded what little talent they had AND has frittered away assets, so that now the cupboard is almost completely bare of ways to build around Luka and Kyrie.

This is not new. Cuban's choices since the title, with no clue as to how to amass assets and gather talent, despite always having a Hall of Fame talent on the roster to attract players, have been one self-destructive choice after another. Just no clue.

Destroying a title team because Cuban was supposedly super smart about how to use the 2011 CBA. Bypassing a generational 2-way player because Cuban had a better roster building idea. His highlights were signing a damaged-goods Parsons to a giant contract, signing a damaged-goods Matthews to a giant contract, signing a decent F Barnes to a giant contract, and signing a washed-and-lazy Jordan to a giant contract.

Trading FOR Porzingis (with the necessary contract that entailed, and loss of draft capital in MANY ways) was an asset killer. There's still more payment due for that move.

And then bringing in a new untrained GM (to make wise decisions) who knows nothing about player evaluation and had no experience in ANY of the GM skills.

Signing THJ to a giant contract.
Signing Bullock, who was good for a year, then a liability thereafter.
Trading AWAY Porzingis (taking bad contracts and spending another pick, for a unicorn) was further drain on assets. Cuban paid a fortune in assets to get him, and then paid again to get rid of him. That's awful.
The asset drain from the Brunson fiasco was huge.
The Wood decision was another one, frittering away opportunity and a pick.
The McGee decision took a roster spot and payroll, and also cost an opportunity to sign someone who would be a plus.

There's basically nothing to work with now. Just a pile of mediocre players with bad contracts.

They need a genius in roster building. Instead they have Cuban running the ship (the blind leading the blind, as it's said), whose choices have been one disaster after another. He has no clue. So I can't see how there's a path to a good team ahead.

(05-19-2023, 12:42 PM)omahen Wrote: I am with you that I have almost zero confidence in Mavs to pull off a good offseason. They haven't shown anything in this past four years that would make me think otherwise. That is why this is the last offseason I give them  If they don't satisfy my standards, I am out. I set my own standards. Not that they will care, but I will. I can find many more fun things to do than watch incompetence.

(05-19-2023, 01:02 PM)MaxiThreeba Wrote: Thank you for condensing all of my Mavs depression into one post.  It isn't just the litany of roster malpractice Cuban has overseen, it's the complete and utter lack of faith that there is any way out.

Cuban somehow manages to not just make the wrong decision, but the worst decision, way too often.

(05-19-2023, 01:12 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: The exact same thing could be said of the Lakers, who are now retooled and in the WCF.

(05-19-2023, 01:21 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: Ya'll are being depressing.  The GAAP principle of "sunk cost" is where we are.  What's done is done.  Split milk.  You certainly don't want to make the same mistakes again, but you do that by putting together a blueprint for the future.

Dan's post is spot on.  Look at how the successful teams have been built and architect the same for the Mavs.

(05-19-2023, 01:20 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Top 10 is a big reach. In the last few ESPN/CBS/Athletic player rankings he was in the 20-35 range.

(05-19-2023, 01:49 PM)omahen Wrote: I really hope some "fake stars" like Towns, LaVine and similar become available, so that those asset heavy teams spend their chests on them. It would leave less competition for the level of guys Mavs are aiming at. I am really affraid what Portland, Houston, Indiana and even Orlando intend to do with their picks. Than you have NY who is very star hungry and has a bunch of assets. OKC will start cashing in their picks at some point. New Orleans still has a lot to spend, so does Sacramento. There are just so little teams that actually want to tank. And the ones that do, don't really have anything interesting to offer. But since there are a lot of buyers, some teams will likely decide it makes more sense to sell their "fake star" players for treasure chests and start a rebuild.

(05-19-2023, 01:26 PM)omahen Wrote: Lakers made one mistake - Westbrook. Other than that they were very good (if not even brilliant) and have a title to show in their couple of years with the grandpa LeBron.

---

We are not saying it can't be done. What we are saying is, we don't believe Mavs can pull it off

(05-19-2023, 01:37 PM)IamDougieFresh Wrote: Don’t confuse his actual skill with the media being mad at him for off the court issues.

(05-19-2023, 02:13 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: Wiggins was a fake star till he got with Steph. Lowry was a fake star till he got with Kawhi. Kyrie was a fake star till he got with LeBron. Love was a fake star till he got with LeBron. Great plan to make decisions based on what social media/ESPN thinks of players.

Or are you saying that Luka is not alpha enough to lead a Towns or Lavine to the promised land?

(05-19-2023, 02:14 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Just go through the list.

Top 25 from "The Athletic"

1) Jokic
2) Curry
3) Giannis
4) Embiid
5) Durant
6) Tatum
7) Doncic
8) Butler
9) Kawhi
10) AD
11) Booker
12) LeBron
13) SGA
14) Lillard
15) Mitchell
16) Brown
17) Morant
18) Sabonis
19) Fox
20) Harden
21) Young
22) George
23) Edwards
24) Adebayo
25) Brunson
...
40)Irving


Personally I think it is possible to make a reasonable case for anything in the 15-30 range.

(05-19-2023, 02:14 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: Regarding past deals...  build a bridge and get over it.  If you don't think they can pull it off, what are you doing here?  I suggest becoming a fan of a team that you believe can do it.


Westbrook was arguably worse than KP (moreso fit vs assets).  Point being they were jacked up roster wise going into this season.  Let's look at the Lakers' path to getting out of roster demise...

1.  Lakers receive Rui Hachimura 
for Kendrick Nunn, Chicago Bulls’ 2023 second-round pick, Lakers’ 2029 second-round pick, 2028 second-round pick

2.  Lakers receive Nuggets’ 2025, 2026 and 2029 second-round picks 
for Thomas Bryant

3.  Lakers receive Mo Bamba 
for Patrick Beverley, future second-round pick 

4.  Lakers receive D’Angelo Russell, Malik Beasley, Jarred Vanderbilt 
for Russell Westbrook, Lakers’ 2027 first-round pick (top-4 protected), 2024 second-round pick (less favorable of Grizzlies and Wizards, via Lakers)

Overall:
Rui Hachimura
Nuggets’ 2025, 2026 and 2029 second-round picks
Mo Bamba
D’Angelo Russell
Malik Beasley
Jarred Vanderbilt
for
Roster Trash, 1 top-4 protected first round pick, 3 second round picks

Are you telling me that we don't have trash assets like Beverley, Westbrook, Nunn, and Bryant?  They turned that trash, 1 FRP, and 3 SRPs for 2 starters (Russell and Vanderbilt), a 6th man (Rui), and bench depth (Beasley, Bamba).

(05-19-2023, 02:14 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Just go through the list.

Top 25 from "The Athletic"

1) Jokic
2) Curry
3) Giannis
4) Embiid
5) Durant
6) Tatum
7) Doncic
8) Butler
9) Kawhi
10) AD
11) Booker
12) LeBron
13) SGA
14) Lillard
15) Mitchell
16) Brown
17) Morant
18) Sabonis
19) Fox
20) Harden
21) Young
22) George
23) Edwards
24) Adebayo
25) Brunson
...
40)Irving


Personally I think it is possible to make a reasonable case for anything in the 15-30 range.

(05-19-2023, 02:33 PM)omahen Wrote: From the "infamous" Hawks forum, so take it as you want it:

Lakers: Lakers are a team that has made it clear resigning their players in the top priority but it's all about how all of these guys finish. I am told that Dallas received a call about a potential double SnT for Russell. I was told Dallas has no interest in him but loves Austin Reaves. Kyrie might end up in LA like he wanted all along.

(05-19-2023, 02:56 PM)omahen Wrote: If Kyrie really wants to go to Lakers, I would want two guys in return - Reaves and Vanderbilt. I am a bit scared about giving Reaves a big deal, but I guess it is better than nothing. I would be prepared to eat additionally needed salary to make the trade work (Beasley or Bamba). I think this is best Mavs could hope for to get. I think, Mavs ceiling would still drop with this move

Reaves and Vandy would shift Mavs needs to center and a good third creator. Perhaps I could see Russell in this role, although I am really not a fan. He has been really bad this season and is a huge defensive liability.

(05-19-2023, 02:57 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: We could flip Beasley to another team.  IMO I'd rather have THJ.