(02-02-2024, 11:43 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Read more closely.


"To me, OMax and 2027 (and say Hardaway) is too much for Kuzma.  It may take that, but I'd prefer the 2027 pick not be unprotected if we do.  Would I go unprotected if Gafford/Holmes was included?  Probably."  

---

Maybe for Shamet.  I doubt that package gets you Jones along with Kuz/Gafford.

(02-02-2024, 11:43 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Maybe for Shamet.  I doubt that package gets you Jones along with Kuz/Gafford.

(02-02-2024, 10:59 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Catching up with several pages of this thread has been entertaining.  Kuzma seemed like it had momentum and some people seemed to be talking them themselves into it and then suddenly.....BAM.  Its all about Lebron.

I'm going to chose to ignore the Lebron thing.  I don't want it to happen.  I get that it's LeBron, but I've never liked him (respect him, but don't like him) and I don't want to cheer for him.  Trade matching is disruptive and difficult.  I don't like his age and contract.  What we'll have left when he's done with us will be total desolation.  I'd rather Luka try to win this without this type of help.

I've been interested in Washington as a trade partner and I'm fine with Kuzma.  The Kuzma/Kidd connection was new information to me and another reason to think this might have legs.  I go back and forth with whether I'd prefer a THJ based outgoing package (which presumably leaves GWill here as a backup) or a GWill based package (which presumably leaves THJ here as a backup).  It is interesting (at least to me) that THJ's money misses matching Kuzma's money by a few thousand.  It is almost like they designed the first year to force Dallas to add a player to any THJ based deal.

Washington wants picks, so 2027 in some form or fashion is gone in this deal.  If you are them and take an objective view of our roster and what they will build around, they probably don't value Hardy (with Poole there) and probably would value OMax as part of a Avdija/Bilal/OMax wing group.  To me, OMax and 2027 (and say Hardaway) is too much for Kuzma.  It may take that, but I'd prefer the 2027 pick not be unprotected if we do.  Would I go unprotected if Gafford/Holmes was included?  Probably.  THJ/OMax/2027 for Kuzma/Gafford?  Kuzma isn't dramatically different than THJ.  But, we have guys who can play guard and need more wing size.  Kuzma rebounds better and passes/creates better and is a better fit in the starting lineup and in 'any two-of' lineups with Luka or Kyrie.  But, the main thing is he has a defensive gear (when he choses to use it) that THJ just doesn't have.  Gafford solves the backup C issue for years to come.  So, yeah, I'd do it.

The idea that we somehow could add Avdija to the above is nuts.  We don't have the juice for all three.  I'd be more than fine though if Avdija was substituted for Kuzma.  Maybe that deal is GWill/Holmes/OMax/2027 for Avdija/Gafford.  That makes a ton of sense to me.  One other reminder...Shamet has a very flexible contract and Washington has a TPE that can absorb either of Holmes or GWill.  So some of the consideration for a deal with them can be future roster building tools that don't get cashed in until the summer.

(02-02-2024, 12:06 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: My limit for any Kuzma deal is 2 2nds and 1 of Green or Hardy. If Gafford is included then I'm fine with both of them. That's why the only way I've entertained such a deal is shipping THJ off to ORL for one of their two late 2024 firsts and combining our 2 good 2nds for WAS. Mavs keep their flexibility for future trades that way and WAS can say they got 3 picks for Kuz as they fill their treasure chest.

(02-02-2024, 01:08 PM)youzigizag Wrote: Im a THJ critic...but like the way he is playing thus far this year...

Is THJ gonna be one of these players we let go for cheap and then watch some other team flip him for something far better than we got for him?

It just seems like that is going to be the case.

We flip him...he goes on heaters and some team flips him this summer for good return after we couldnt do it for 3 years of trying.  Looks so predictable.

(02-02-2024, 01:12 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: He has been good.    I just don't think he is in our long range plans and is always an odd fit trying to play him with our finishing group.  It just makes us really small.   

Mavs have supposedly been trying to trade him for a few years with limited interest.  I think you can loop him in with Buddy Heild, Trent Jr, Clarkson, and a few others.  Hardaway probably better than some, worse than others.   Those players typically don't bring a lot back in return though in trade.   

I would be surprised if Hardaway goes somewhere else and plays better than he is currently playing.   I think he could help a contender though....but so could those other names above.

(02-02-2024, 11:43 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Read more closely.


"To me, OMax and 2027 (and say Hardaway) is too much for Kuzma.  It may take that, but I'd prefer the 2027 pick not be unprotected if we do.  Would I go unprotected if Gafford/Holmes was included?  Probably."  

(02-02-2024, 01:51 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Guys, guys, guys… I can’t believe I have to remind you of this:

The Maps cannot trade O-Max. I forbid it.

(02-02-2024, 01:08 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: Also, lets not fool ourselves that first round pick in 2027 is a great pick.  Could it be?  Sure.  

(02-02-2024, 12:06 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: I forgot what podcast I heard this on but they said something absurd like 75% of all available firsts are held by 11 teams. Mavs going into the summer with 3 available (and attractive) firsts is huge.  

My limit for any Kuzma deal is 2 2nds and 1 of Green or Hardy. If Gafford is included then I'm fine with both of them.  

(02-02-2024, 02:42 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: If 11 teams have 75% of the available picks, doesn't that mean those 11 teams are well positioned to outbid us for anything worth having?

Chicago is right.  When is the last time a deal was announced and we all sat around and said...'man, that was cheap'.  'I can't believe it only cost....'.   That never happens.  We can be staunchly opposed to this or that, but we need to be somewhat realistic.  We overvalue our stuff compared to reality.

We can talk about two seconds and this/that if we want.  To me, it feels so unrealistic that I don't see the point.  We know the price tag is higher than that and if that is the stand we take then what we are staunchly opposed to is completing a deal.  

Kuzma with Lively, Luka, Green and Kyrie solves our starting five for years to come.  Gafford with GWill, DJJ, Hardy and Exum is a very solid bench for years to come.  OMax is a bet.  None of us know if that bet will pay off (Free Roddy B).  2027 is painful.  I get it.  I'd love an unprotected swap so at least we'd have a pick.  Maybe that can happen.  But we can fill two holes at once if we do something like this.  I guess I like the outcome.  I've never been a huge Kuzma fan myself.  But, the end result makes sense to me.