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RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: BRK may want multiple 2nds for O'Neal? Mavs interested? - KillerLeft - 01-31-2024
(01-31-2024, 11:30 AM)SleepingHero Wrote:
Player wise I don't mind that deal. Especially since I was defending Dinwiddie hard the other day. But the Mavs essentially push their expiring contracts to this offseason and free up 29 mil. What could they even do with that?
The better question might be: Why would Brooklyn convert two expiring contracts into two contracts with an extra year each, one of which is attached to a player who won't play, for only a 2nd round pick?
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: BRK may want multiple 2nds for O'Neal? Mavs interested? - Chicagojk - 01-31-2024
Dallas need a third PG? How about a small trade with the Bulls. Seth Curry for Javon Carter. Carter is insurance and also a good defensive player. He has fallen out of the rotation and still has a few years left on his contract. Seth maybe could be moved for an expiring or bought out.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: BRK may want multiple 2nds for O'Neal? Mavs interested? - SleepingHero - 01-31-2024
(01-31-2024, 11:32 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: Ok, now I'm getting worried.
If the Mavs bring Kuzma IN, while simultaneously sending either O-Max or that pick OUT, it will be like they're stabbing me in both eyes.
(01-31-2024, 11:33 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Reports like this scare me. Kuzma feels like the typical trade deadline desperation move. Just add another big name that can score without any concerns for fit, payroll and chemistry.
Yeah I'm a bit terrified of Kuzma.
Is it sad to say I'd rather have Wiggins than Kuzma?
Nick Angstadt (@NickVanExit)
Pointed out by @redrock_bball today, the Wizards Interim Coach is not as into Deni as Wes Unseld Jr was...
Deni Avdija Minutes
Since Unseld Removed: 25.4
9 Games Before: 30.0
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: BRK may want multiple 2nds for O'Neal? Mavs interested? - KillerLeft - 01-31-2024
(01-31-2024, 11:37 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: Is it sad to say I'd rather have Wiggins than Kuzma?
What a choice...I honestly don't know which way I'd go if I had to...Probably Kuzma (barf), but only because his contract is not as bad and is declining. Much better chance of pawning him off on someone else once they discover he's not the guy.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: BRK may want multiple 2nds for O'Neal? Mavs interested? - dirkfansince1998 - 01-31-2024
(01-31-2024, 11:37 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: Yeah I'm a bit terrified of Kuzma.
Is it sad to say I'd rather have Wiggins than Kuzma?
Same for me. Out on both but at least Wiggins has been the kind of player that I would like to see on the Mavs in the past. Sample size isn't big but he was a great 3&D wing with some creation ability with GS. Kuzma never was that kind of guy. Always a mediocre shooter. Never a good defender. Probably a 6th man on a good team.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: BRK may want multiple 2nds for O'Neal? Mavs interested? - KillerLeft - 01-31-2024
(01-31-2024, 11:41 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Same for me. Out on both but at least Wiggins has been the kind of player I would like to see on the Mavs in the past. Sample size isn't big but he was a great 3&D wing with some creation ability in for three seasons with GS. Kuzma never was that kind of guy. Always a mediocre shooter. Never a good defender. Probably a 6th man on a good team.
This is probably the right thinking...but man, his contract sucks. He makes more than Kyrie. If it doesn't work (and come on, we know it wouldn't, right?) then it's probably an extinction level event for the Luka era in Dallas.
Reaaaaallllly hope they don't do it.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: BRK may want multiple 2nds for O'Neal? Mavs interested? - Chicagojk - 01-31-2024
I am not entirely familiar with Kuzma's game and how he would fit here. I don't think we have the assets to get him anyway right now. He has some things I like about him. He seems like a guy who would not shy away from big moments. He is big. Pretty skilled for a big guy. Could be a nice X factor on a good team....similar to Michael Porter Jr. I guess a lot would be determined if he is willing to sacrifice going from an awful team to a good one. As he would not be a guy who gets a ton of plays run for him.
Maybe the negatives most have here are legit, but I guess looking from far away, I could see the Mavs interest, I guess.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: BRK may want multiple 2nds for O'Neal? Mavs interested? - mvossman - 01-31-2024
(01-31-2024, 11:40 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: What a choice...I honestly don't know which way I'd go if I had to...Probably Kuzma (barf), but only because his contract is not as bad and is declining. Much better chance of pawning him off on someone else once they discover he's not the guy.
Yep. If we get good Wiggins (historically about 20% likely) he makes more sense than Kuz, but if not its death. While Kuz is overrated and a terrible fit, you can at least get salary matching for him and only lose the first you sent out.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: BRK may want multiple 2nds for O'Neal? Mavs interested? - KillerLeft - 01-31-2024
(01-31-2024, 11:46 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: I am not entirely familiar with Kuzma's game and how he would fit here. I don't think we have the assets to get him anyway right now. He has some things I like about him. He seems like a guy who would not shy away from big moments. He is big. Pretty skilled for a big guy. Could be a nice X factor on a good team....similar to Michael Porter Jr. I guess a lot would be determined if he is willing to sacrifice going from an awful team to a good one. As he would not be a guy who gets a ton of plays run for him.
Maybe the negatives most have here are legit, but I guess looking from far away, I could see the Mavs interest, I guess.
I can tell you this right now: the people who hate Hardaway would hate Kuzma 3x as much. He's the type who shoots just to try to score on the guy who just scored on him at the other end. You're right about him being fearless, and that part is great, but people who think Hardaway is selfish have a shock coming to them if the Mavs acquire Kuzma.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: BRK may want multiple 2nds for O'Neal? Mavs interested? - Chicagojk - 01-31-2024
The Ringer has Kuzma at 71. Just by size, skill and talent he is sort of the type of player we are looking for. Especially if he is willing to back off the leading man stuff
https://nbarankings.theringer.com/
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: BRK may want multiple 2nds for O'Neal? Mavs interested? - StrandedOnBeauboisHill - 01-31-2024
(01-31-2024, 11:52 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: The Ringer has Kuzma at 71. Just by size, skill and talent he is sort of the type of player we are looking for. Especially if he is willing to back off the leading man stuff
https://nbarankings.theringer.com/
Kuzma is certainly not my first choice but he's already proven he can play the exact role we need him to on a championship team. He's probably like my 4th choice (I'd take him wayyyyyyy before Wiggins, this board needs to really do some research on what's been happening to that guys career. A trade will only make things worse), but this team is definitely more talented if you swap G Will minutes for Kuz.
I would say please don't give up on OMax for Kuz's contract but I'm willing to part with the 27 FRP if the trade includes Gafford.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: BRK may want multiple 2nds for O'Neal? Mavs interested? - dirkfansince1998 - 01-31-2024
(01-31-2024, 12:01 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: Kuzma is certainly not my first choice but he's already proven he can play the exact role we need him to on a championship team. He's probably like my 4th choice (I'd take him wayyyyyyy before Wiggins, this board needs to really do some research on what's been happening to that guys career. A trade will only make things worse), but this team is definitely more talented if you swap G Will minutes for Kuz.
I would say please don't give up on OMax for Kuz's contract but I'm willing to part with the 27 FRP if the trade includes Gafford.
Kuzma was a 25mpg bench player on the Lakers. Averaging 10ppg in the playoffs. Shooting 31% from 3. Provided THJ-like chucking offense from the bench. That's not what the Mavs need.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: BRK may want multiple 2nds for O'Neal? Mavs interested? - KillerLeft - 01-31-2024
(01-31-2024, 12:01 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: Kuzma is certainly not my first choice but he's already proven he can play the exact role we need him to on a championship team. He's probably like my 4th choice (I'd take him wayyyyyyy before Wiggins, this board needs to really do some research on what's been happening to that guys career. A trade will only make things worse), but this team is definitely more talented if you swap G Will minutes for Kuz.
I would say please don't give up on OMax for Kuz's contract but I'm willing to part with the 27 FRP if the trade includes Gafford.
This is the most reasonable "pro Kuzma" take I've read. I can't disagree with much here. He IS more talented than Williams. I'm not sure the talent is a fit that will HELP the team, but it's a true statement.
I wouldn't give up a pick (as lightly protected as it would have to be) in that deal, but if you really wanted both players, I could see the reasoning behind it.
Still, I think this board's fascination with the backup 5 is a waste of time. I don't see any indication that they believe they're short there, especially when fully healthy. And if they do want another one, I bet they'd think each and ever name we discuss around here is too much money for not enough minutes. Derrick Lively is the guy, and he's going to play more than half of the minutes in each game. The names we discuss are usually borderline starters, at least.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: BRK may want multiple 2nds for O'Neal? Mavs interested? - mvossman - 01-31-2024
(01-31-2024, 11:52 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: The Ringer has Kuzma at 71. Just by size, skill and talent he is sort of the type of player we are looking for. Especially if he is willing to back off the leading man stuff
https://nbarankings.theringer.com/
You didn't mention defense. If we bring him in you are hoping he backs off on offense enough to be more efficient, and that he rediscovers his supposed defense in a playoff run 5 years ago when he had the worst net rating on his team. Even in his ringer overview (which ranks him way too high based on empty stats) the only icon he has is pull up threat and extremely online and they mention in the write-up its not surprising he plays on losing teams. That is not a ringing endorsement.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: BRK may want multiple 2nds for O'Neal? Mavs interested? - StrandedOnBeauboisHill - 01-31-2024
(01-31-2024, 12:08 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: This is the most reasonable "pro Kuzma" take I've read. I can't disagree with much here. He IS more talented than Williams. I'm not sure the talent is a fit that will HELP the team, but it's a true statement.
I wouldn't give up a pick (as lightly protected as it would have to be) in that deal, but if you really wanted both players, I could see the reasoning behind it.
Still, I think this board's fascination with the backup 5 is a waste of time. I don't see any indication that they believe they're short there, especially when fully healthy. And if they do want another one, I bet they'd think each and ever name we discuss around here is too much money for not enough minutes. Derrick Lively is the guy, and he's going to play more than half of the minutes in each game. The names we discuss are usually borderline starters, at least.
Ya believe me, I am not very pro-Kuzma at all, I'd much rather go the PJ Washington route. I just feel I watched him play a good role on a contender before so I believe that he could do it again. Becoming "the man" can mess with someone who has to take a step back afterwards (Jerami Grant obviously falls into this convo too), but you can't deny that someone who has been there and done that and isn't over the hill couldn't possibly do it again.
I understand the fit concerns as well but I do think that he is one of those dudes who will take defense more seriously when the games become more serious. Probably not to the level we're all hoping for with a hypothetical new PF but I don't think he'd be AS awful as folks here are thinking.
I agree with you on the backup 5 if you're assuming that Maxi is that guy but the "especially when fully healthy" is a phrase that is starting to do some reallllll heavy lifting with this roster and with Maxi specifically. I also think that Maxi is still useful if we bring another 5 in and having another high level PnR player to play with Luka (Powell can't do it like he used to, he's still useful but I don't see him as a playoff rotation level talent anymore) would do wonders for this offense. The offense just looks better when Luka gets the defense to react to a good roll man, he does all the matchup hunting that folks hate whenever we're playing 5-out (which still works great guys!). I know you're big on being able to play different ways and I'm with you on that but I do think when Lively gets in foul trouble we're currently FORCED to play a different way and that may not be what the matchup calls for so having some insurance that is a little higher level talent than Powell could go a long way in the playoffs.
(01-31-2024, 12:07 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Kuzma was a 25mpg bench player on the Lakers. Averaging 10ppg in the playoffs. Shooting 31% from 3. Provided THJ-like chucking offense from the bench. That's not what the Mavs need.
This is true, we'd be asking him to play probably 10 more minutes a game in the playoffs but I'm speaking more to the fact that he played wing defense good enough for 25 minutes a game in the playoffs to help a team win a championship. I don't think he'd get exposed as much as people think. The matchup hunting will always be directed at Luka.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: BRK may want multiple 2nds for O'Neal? Mavs interested? - StrandedOnBeauboisHill - 01-31-2024
(01-31-2024, 12:19 PM)mvossman Wrote: You didn't mention defense. If we bring him in you are hoping he backs off on offense enough to be more efficient, and that he rediscovers his supposed defense in a playoff run 5 years ago when he had the worst net rating on his team. Even in his ringer overview (which ranks him way too high based on empty stats) the only icon he has is pull up threat and extremely online and they mention in the write-up its not surprising he plays on losing teams. That is not a ringing endorsement.
It was 3 and a half seasons ago and he played good defense all through the next season too (where he had a positive on-off in their 6 playoff games). There's a ton of film breakdowns of him back then, his defense was good.
I'm not saying it is a sure thing that it will come back or he'll start caring about defense again, but if this board wants to pump Murray as some defensive savant then they shouldn't be so laser focused on Kuz's time in WAS because we're ignoring Murray's time in ATL when we talk about him.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: BRK may want multiple 2nds for O'Neal? Mavs interested? - vfromlmf - 01-31-2024
Maybe some of you need to realize how small Dallas is, to understand what kind of defensive impact Kuzma would have. He's far from a perfect player, but he's 6' 10" and a strong defensive rebounder. Length matters. And he's scoring 22 ppg as his team's no 1 option. Think about that. His doesn't score very efficiently, but he's also the focal point of the opposing team's defense and he's scoring better than any season in THJ's career. THJ is a 6' 5" guard. Exum is bigger than THJ. Kuzma is a 6' 10" forward.
Someone above mentioned MPJ and that sounds about right. Plus, Kuz' efficiency will go up just like everyone's does next to Luka.
Would I rather deal an expiring contract, prospect, and late 1st for Aaron Gordon? Absolutely, but he's not on the market.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: BRK may want multiple 2nds for O'Neal? Mavs interested? - mvossman - 01-31-2024
(01-31-2024, 12:42 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: It was 3 and a half seasons ago and he played good defense all through the next season too (where he had a positive on-off in their 6 playoff games). There's a ton of film breakdowns of him back then, his defense was good.
I'm not saying it is a sure thing that it will come back or he'll start caring about defense again, but if this board wants to pump Murray as some defensive savant then they shouldn't be so laser focused on Kuz's time in WAS because we're ignoring Murray's time in ATL when we talk about him.
The Kuz "success" at defense was longer ago, it was as a bench player and the advanced stats are not terribly impressed with his defense even in his LA days (DARKO hates him). I think there is more reason to believe in Murray than Kuz, but there were plenty on here concerned with his recent defense as well.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: BRK may want multiple 2nds for O'Neal? Mavs interested? - mvossman - 01-31-2024
(01-31-2024, 12:49 PM)vfromlmf Wrote: Maybe some of you need to realize how small Dallas is, to understand what kind of defensive impact Kuzma would have. He's far from a perfect player, but he's 6' 10" and a strong defensive rebounder. Length matters. And he's scoring 22 ppg as his team's no 1 option. Think about that. His doesn't score very efficiently, but he's also the focal point of the opposing team's defense and he's scoring better than any season in THJ's career. THJ is a 6' 5" guard. Exum is bigger than THJ. Kuzma is a 6' 10" forward.
Someone above mentioned MPJ and that sounds about right. Plus, Kuz' efficiency will go up just like everyone's does next to Luka.
Would I rather deal an expiring contract, prospect, and late 1st for Aaron Gordon? Absolutely, but he's not on the market.
This is a fine argument for replacing Timmy with Kuz as 6th man (our second unit is our biggest issue from a size standpoint), but you don't pay a first round pick and 90 mil for a 6th man upgrade. In the starting lineup next to Luka and Kyrie what we most need is defense. Not a chucker who might be a little more efficient next to those guys. If I thought Kuz could play consistent high level defense as a starter I would be much more on board with this. But the argument that he played some good defense years ago from the bench in a couple of playoff series sounds way too much like the arguments for GWill (who was much more known for defense).
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: BRK may want multiple 2nds for O'Neal? Mavs interested? - vfromlmf - 01-31-2024
The biggest problem the Mavs have is lack of size and physicality. Second to that is spacing. Teams aren't guarding any of our wings except THJ who is is a 6' 5" guard. Leave Green (also a 6' 5" guard), Williams, DJJ wide open and live with the results. Exum hasn't been playing but we all know his jumper is questionable. You can't leave Kuz wide open. He's a better scorer than THJ and he's a 6' 10" starting forward. He's no defensive stopper but he can play enough team defense and he helps on the defensive glass. Guys like OG and Gordon just aren't available.