(01-30-2024, 01:01 PM)DallasMaverick Wrote: In my opinion, "fit" trumps "talent".  I'd much rather have 55 games of Kyrie than 75 of Murray, even if we somehow decided that they had equal talent.

Kyrie is a great fit, both on the court and off.  He's been hurt, so less available, perhaps, but any player can get hurt.  Lots of Mavs have missed lots of games this season.  And I'd argue that a lot of his recent unavailability (Brooklyn) didn't have anything to do with being hurt, so can't really be used to project forward.

KP was hurt a lot, also, but when healthy, he just wasn't a great fit.

(01-30-2024, 12:33 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: 45/46 games from Murray or 27/47 games from Kyrie. Who is providing more value? Kyrie's issue is health/durability.

(01-30-2024, 01:11 PM)mvossman Wrote: I'm not sure Kyrie is a better fit than Murray.  He is a better fit on offense, but Murray is capable of much better defense.  If Murray feels he needs to run point, then it obviously is not going to work.  His usage is currently only a few percentage points below what it was in SA, and Kyrie currently has a higher usage than Murray did in SA so I am not convinced it wont work.  As I said above, it probably doesn't matter anyways.  I think they plan on holding onto Kyrie long term, and we just have to hope that his next contract is not an albatross.

(01-30-2024, 12:54 PM)BigDirk41 Wrote: Yeah I can't argue that. I just don't think it's good for Luka who is the prize in Dallas. The roster around them two doesn't help either.

(01-30-2024, 01:07 PM)youzigizag Wrote: Im ready for the Mavs to just make Brooklyn an offer they cant refuse for Bridges.

(01-30-2024, 02:03 PM)omahen Wrote: I don't want to reopen all the Wiggins pro et contra discussions. I am interested in GSW part of it. There was some smoke Mavs are interested and todays rumor is that GSW is exploring player for player options for him. This basically takes out all tanking teams options, as none of them would take that contract without assets. This leaves teams that might see a better fit with Wiggins than what they have with some other players on their roster.

Assuming GSW is only exploring player for player options, what would be their main motivation in the trade? Good players are not on table in such deals and is it even likely any average player changes their chances so much? I don't think so. Are they looking for a specific player position or is the main motivation just to save money? Lets consider player positions. They have Curry and CP3 at guard positions, being backed up by the young Poziemsky who is playing well and Moody as well. So, an average guard will not really make a huge difference.

Forward positions will be dominated by Thompson, Kuminga and Draymond. Center might be their biggest position of need as they are undersized with Looney, Saric and Jackson-Davis.

My conclusion is, that their main motivation in player for player deal would be to have more flexibility in the summer. I will take all GSW rookies of the table, as I don't think they will use any of them to dump Wiggins for some average or worse players. Going from there, I will play a little bit with the options.

THJ for Wiggins works straight up. They would save a lot for next two seasons and THJ contract will be far more moveable than Wiggins in the summer. It would put Mavs in the tax but there are some minor moves like moving Curry that would solve that. But it seems like GSW are the clear winner in this deal. Mavs getting a bad contract in a player that you can only hope would return to at least 90 % of what he was. Huge risk. Kills a lot of Mavs flexibility in summer, where THJ contract would be great to have.

Kleber+GW? Longer term deals not really saving GSW any money and even as bad as Wiggins is playing, both are worse than him. Might be easier for GSW to move two smaller contracts than Wiggins one though. Season is lost anyway. If GSW would want to save more money, they could add GPII and we add Curry. From Mavs perspective, next move could make things very interesting. If they get someone like Grant with THJ/Holmes and the darft assets in the summer. Luka-Kyrie-Wiggins-Grant-Lively could be a very dangerous line-up on both ends of the floor. Ideally we keep Green, Omax, Exum, Hardy as bench options.

Holmes has less money on his deal, but far worse player value than any of Maxi/GW.

(01-30-2024, 02:10 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: Don't forget that KL is a throw-in on any Mavs trade for Wiggins.

(01-30-2024, 02:16 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Hahaha, I'm sure that's a notch in the "pros" column for Omahen.

(01-30-2024, 02:03 PM)omahen Wrote: I don't want to reopen all the Wiggins pro et contra discussions. I am interested in GSW part of it. There was some smoke Mavs are interested and todays rumor is that GSW is exploring player for player options for him. This basically takes out all tanking teams options, as none of them would take that contract without assets. This leaves teams that might see a better fit with Wiggins than what they have with some other players on their roster.

Assuming GSW is only exploring player for player options, what would be their main motivation in the trade? Good players are not on table in such deals and is it even likely any average player changes their chances so much? I don't think so. Are they looking for a specific player position or is the main motivation just to save money? Lets consider player positions. They have Curry and CP3 at guard positions, being backed up by the young Poziemsky who is playing well and Moody as well. So, an average guard will not really make a huge difference.

Forward positions will be dominated by Thompson, Kuminga and Draymond. Center might be their biggest position of need as they are undersized with Looney, Saric and Jackson-Davis.

My conclusion is, that their main motivation in player for player deal would be to have more flexibility in the summer. I will take all GSW rookies of the table, as I don't think they will use any of them to dump Wiggins for some average or worse players. Going from there, I will play a little bit with the options.

THJ for Wiggins works straight up. They would save a lot for next two seasons and THJ contract will be far more moveable than Wiggins in the summer. It would put Mavs in the tax but there are some minor moves like moving Curry that would solve that. But it seems like GSW are the clear winner in this deal. Mavs getting a bad contract in a player that you can only hope would return to at least 90 % of what he was. Huge risk. Kills a lot of Mavs flexibility in summer, where THJ contract would be great to have.

Kleber+GW? Longer term deals not really saving GSW any money and even as bad as Wiggins is playing, both are worse than him. Might be easier for GSW to move two smaller contracts than Wiggins one though. Season is lost anyway. If GSW would want to save more money, they could add GPII and we add Curry. From Mavs perspective, next move could make things very interesting. If they get someone like Grant with THJ/Holmes and the darft assets in the summer. Luka-Kyrie-Wiggins-Grant-Lively could be a very dangerous line-up on both ends of the floor. Ideally we keep Green, Omax, Exum, Hardy as bench options.

Holmes has less money on his deal, but far worse player value than any of Maxi/GW.

(01-30-2024, 01:15 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: And bingo. I'm not saying this. Murray said it. It's not going to work.

(01-30-2024, 02:29 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: Nah, we all appreciate you, and that's why bringing Wiggins here is, like trading OMax, forbidden.

(01-30-2024, 03:16 PM)RoyTarpleysGhost Wrote: I have hope Omax turns into something but this guy is already insanely overhyped. For a three year college player to look this overwhelmed in the NBA isn’t a great sign. I’m not sure the Mavs do that trade again with Sacramento if you gave them the choice.

(01-30-2024, 03:36 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: We shouldn't be looking to do the Warriors a favor. Taking on Wiggins KILLS the Mavs flexibility for years. And if he continues looking like he does he is one of the hardest contracts to move in the league.

Moody should be at least available as a sweetener. As well as 2nds. I'd give them THJ+Maxi for Wiggins+Looney+Moody and a 2nd.

Mavs head into the tax but just barely.

This is really the only acceptable deal in my eyes.

(01-30-2024, 02:03 PM)omahen Wrote: I don't want to reopen all the Wiggins pro et contra discussions. I am interested in GSW part of it. There was some smoke Mavs are interested and todays rumor is that GSW is exploring player for player options for him. This basically takes out all tanking teams options, as none of them would take that contract without assets. This leaves teams that might see a better fit with Wiggins than what they have with some other players on their roster.

Assuming GSW is only exploring player for player options, what would be their main motivation in the trade? Good players are not on table in such deals and is it even likely any average player changes their chances so much? I don't think so. Are they looking for a specific player position or is the main motivation just to save money? Lets consider player positions. They have Curry and CP3 at guard positions, being backed up by the young Poziemsky who is playing well and Moody as well. So, an average guard will not really make a huge difference.

Forward positions will be dominated by Thompson, Kuminga and Draymond. Center might be their biggest position of need as they are undersized with Looney, Saric and Jackson-Davis.

My conclusion is, that their main motivation in player for player deal would be to have more flexibility in the summer. I will take all GSW rookies of the table, as I don't think they will use any of them to dump Wiggins for some average or worse players. Going from there, I will play a little bit with the options.

THJ for Wiggins works straight up. They would save a lot for next two seasons and THJ contract will be far more moveable than Wiggins in the summer. It would put Mavs in the tax but there are some minor moves like moving Curry that would solve that. But it seems like GSW are the clear winner in this deal. Mavs getting a bad contract in a player that you can only hope would return to at least 90 % of what he was. Huge risk. Kills a lot of Mavs flexibility in summer, where THJ contract would be great to have.

Kleber+GW? Longer term deals not really saving GSW any money and even as bad as Wiggins is playing, both are worse than him. Might be easier for GSW to move two smaller contracts than Wiggins one though. Season is lost anyway. If GSW would want to save more money, they could add GPII and we add Curry. From Mavs perspective, next move could make things very interesting. If they get someone like Grant with THJ/Holmes and the darft assets in the summer. Luka-Kyrie-Wiggins-Grant-Lively could be a very dangerous line-up on both ends of the floor. Ideally we keep Green, Omax, Exum, Hardy as bench options.

Holmes has less money on his deal, but far worse player value than any of Maxi/GW.

(01-30-2024, 03:51 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: Wiggins scares me.  Typically players play well in GS.   A lot of questions there.  But Wiggins at least fits the porotype of a type of player we would need.  

I would imagine Dallas would not include a young player or pick and neither would GS.  So it could be Dallas is offering Holmes & GW or Holmes and Maxi for Wiggins.   I am really not sure who they would less likely want to give up between GW and Maxi.  I think one would need to be included.   I would guess the Mavs have proposed something along these lines and GS just needs to decide if they can find a better deal.  

Also Mavs did like GP3 last summer....and they typically like to hold their crushes for a long time.  

Not sure if I would be on board with a Wiggins trade.