(01-29-2024, 11:11 AM)mvossman Wrote: Beasley had a TS of 53 last season and was a significant negative on both sides of the court.  He has a TS of 65 right now and is playing wildly beyond anything he has done in the past.  You can cherry pick guys like this all day long but it doesn't really say anything.  There are 20 other guys with similar background who sign for the min and play like min players.

(01-29-2024, 01:00 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: There's some valid stuff here. Thanks!

I acknowledge that you're probably correct in that overall, Terry is a tier or two above and the comparison is a stretch. JET is one of my all-time favorite Mavs (possibly why this THJ thing rankles me so much - I still have baggage from defending Terry). However, I think you're only remembering SOME of the Terry hate. There was a "2nd best" debate, yes, but trust me - there were people literally saying having him in the rotation meant the Mavericks could never be a good team. It reached the worst point about a season before the title. Without calling anyone out, there are a few people who still post here to this day who wrote posts so scathing about Terry that I believe if I could find them, post them here but with "JET" replaced by "THJ," they would fit right in. 

I don't agree with the "selfish" thing. Never have. You guys all seem to think the entire team is rolling their eyes every time he shoots, like 80% of this board does. Actually THINK about that. There's a 0% chance the team doesn't WANT him taking those shots. ZERO PERCENT. I'm sure there are possessions here and there they talk to him about (just like Green and OMG, Grant Williams, when he drives) but if they thought he was playing selfishly, they would have done something about it long, long ago. 

They wanted Porzingis gone so much they sold him for two smaller bad contracts just to get the ball rolling. That was basically a season after telling him (a way bigger star than Hardaway) to "stand in the corner." They wanted McGee gone so badly they freaking STRETCH WAIVED him one year after signing him. And you guys all think...what, that they're too scared to discipline Hardaway for taking a ton of shots they don't like? That they're in administrative meetings saying to each other "Damn, no matter what we do, Tim won't stop taking all those shots! We've got to trade him and put an end to this nightmare!" You all realize his contract ended and they chose to re-sign him willingly, right? Do they ever even try to stop playing him, or are his minutes basically entrenched in the top 5, year after year? OF COURSE they want him to shoot. A LOT. That is WHY he is out there. 

I do agree that some of his drives seem ineffectual after the fact, but to be honest there's a lot of that going around. It's crystal clear that one of the differences between Carlise and Kidd is that Carlisle limited his players to what they did routinely well in context of the system, while Kidd seems to expect that everyone should have a little freedom to freelance out there. I'm honestly not sure I like that about Kidd, but then again, there are times when players seem like the experience is helping them add to their usable skill set. And for me, Hardaway has actually been one of the beneficiaries. I'll say again, while there are some bad drives, shots and passes, I have seen the number of GOOD and SUPRISING drives, layups, passes off the dribble, midrange pull-up jumpers off the dribble increase this season. I think THJ is playing a more complete offensive game these days than ever before.

(01-29-2024, 12:40 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: Dinwiddie was a 40% 3pt shooter over the course of 94 games with the Mavs. That's not a hot streak. That's a player who fit well in the system and thrived next to Luka. 

Timmy is a better shooter than Dinwiddie. But his inconsistencies are much greater. I want to replace THJ with a guy who doesn't swing between 20 percentage points in his hot streaks over the course of a season. 

Regarding the Exum thing, you're 100% right. His injury history doesn't bode well for his long term aspirations as a core member of a title team. BUT he does fit the mold and he has shown he could do it. I was just looking at a potential re-creation.

(01-29-2024, 02:54 PM)mvossman Wrote: I would be willing to bet that if an analysis was done on Timmy streakiness compared to other players, the difference would be almost entirely driven by shot profile.  Guys that take more threes are going to have more streaky results because 3% is much more streaky than other shots.  Roughly 45% of Dinwiddie's shots are 3s where Timmy is around 55% so he will probably be a little more streaky, but I am guessing the actual difference is less than what is perceived (probably due to the negative reinforcement when Timmy chucks).

(01-29-2024, 02:54 PM)mvossman Wrote: The "Luka effect" does not improve guys 3 percentage by 8 percent, especially when his shot profile wasn't significantly different than normal.  Luka might have added a percent or two, but most of it was noise.

I would be willing to bet that if an analysis was done on Timmy streakiness compared to other players, the difference would be almost entirely driven by shot profile.  Guys that take more threes are going to have more streaky results because 3% is much more streaky than other shots.  Roughly 45% of Dinwiddie's shots are 3s where Timmy is around 55% so he will probably be a little more streaky, but I am guessing the actual difference is less than what is perceived (probably due to the negative reinforcement when Timmy chucks).

(01-29-2024, 03:01 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Bless you.

(01-29-2024, 12:51 PM)Nowitzki Way Wrote: Agreed. I want him off this team. 

And it may sound crazy, but i also agree that just losing him for nothing is addition by subtraction. Black hole Hardaway.  He's not a winning player.

(01-29-2024, 03:09 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: Dinwiddie was never like that. If he was ice cold he found other ways to affect the game while he was here. Whether that be facilitating or defending.

(01-29-2024, 03:41 PM)mvossman Wrote: Have to disagree with that last word.  Dinwiddie has never been a good defender, and he was particularly bad here.  

I'm not disagreeing that Timmy would be a much more useful player if he could provide some level of playmaking, but the real goal needs to be bringing in a legit two way player.  Once that happens we have much less need for a Timmy or a Dinwiddie.  So I am not terrible interested in spending assets to convert Timmy into a Dinwiddie like player because in the long run neither are necessary, and in the short run Timmy will do.

(01-29-2024, 03:25 PM)SleepingHero Wrote:

roast my unrealistic trade.

(01-29-2024, 03:42 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: Ok so we have some common ground. I am all for turning THJ into a legit 2 way guy. My dream trade currently is in the summer throwing 3 unprotected firsts for Mikal Bridges and including Timmy in the deal as an expiring.

(01-29-2024, 03:55 PM)mvossman Wrote: Yeah, that is the kind of move I have been keying on for a long time.  I call it our Jrue Holiday trade (which was also 3 firsts).  That team had Giannis, Middleton, Lopez and not a lot else.  They were starting freaking Wes Mathews.  I would argue Luka/Kyrie/Lively are in the same ballpark.  I'm skeptical Bridges will be up for sale, but that is the kind of move we need to make if at all possible.

(01-29-2024, 03:12 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: Dalton Trigg (@dalton_trigg)
Kyle Kuzma is a player that has been linked to the Mavs in recent weeks, and @hoopshype thinks there could be mutual interest between the Mavs and Wizards.

More here: https://www.si.com/nba/mavericks/trade-rumors/trade-rumor-dallas-mavs-washington-wizards-mutual-interest-kyle-kuzma-deal

(01-29-2024, 01:52 PM)Smitty Wrote: Excellent counterpoint. You win!

(01-29-2024, 04:10 PM)DallasMaverick Wrote: Thanks.

I was expecting a real battle, with advanced stats and stuff, maybe some name-calling.

Kinda relieved now.

(01-29-2024, 02:28 PM)RoyTarpleysGhost Wrote: Malik Beasley has a higher career TS% than Tim Hardaway Jr.

(01-29-2024, 04:38 PM)mvossman Wrote: I was looking over the last few seasons (Tim has had a better TS as Mav than over his career) but it is interesting to compare.  Timmy scores a few more points per game, but they do seem like similar players.  The advanced stats like Timmy better.  I just read an article that says LA tried to retain him for 6 mil, and Mavs offered 5 mil (presumably before they gave Curry a contract?) but he signed min with Bucks as he had a chance to start for a contender.

(01-29-2024, 04:49 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: My 2-cents on the great THJ debate of 2024.  It kind of reminds me of the Wood discussion last season…including the outsized emotion.  Wood is an obviously talented offensive player that can’t find a home or any money, yet people here lost their minds when you suggested the obvious.

THJ is also an obviously talented offensive player.  But, there are issues and they are mainly around his D and the limits to his game at his size.

1.  Defense:  He’s the worst defender on the team.  Yeah, its cool he takes charges and all, but worst D-Rating and DBPM and if you dig through 82-games, he’s got the biggest On-Off defensive spread on the team (by a mile).  He kills the defense of any lineup you run with him…period.

2.  Lineup Construction:  THJ’s injury was an aspect of the WCF playoff run.  It wasn’t because he sucks…he doesn’t.  It was because without another guard with limited creation ability, Dallas was able to keep two of their three creators on the court at all times without sacrificing size.  Do spot-up and motion shooters have a place in the league?  Yes, but they do create issues if they can’t defend and can’t create for themselves and others (outside of ‘creating’ a contested 3 with a defender in his face).  

3.  Consistency:  This has come up today and they spent some time on this on the “Locked-On” podcast today as well.  When Dallas shoots 37% or better as a team they are 18-4 (third best for teams when they shoot over 37%).  When other teams in the top of the league in this stat shoot under 37% they all have winning records.  But, Dallas is 7-17 when they shoot under 37%.  The reason is those other good teams have something else to go to.  Dallas doesn’t.  On nights Tim shoots over 30% the team is 18-10.  When Tim shoots under 30% they are 4-8.  A bench guy shouldn’t have that kind of impact on the overall record.  But if you have him you have to play him.  It isn’t the inconsistency as much as it it the limits to his game.  Many of the PF’s we seem to be targeting have other tricks in their bag besides what Tim has.

His one-trick-pony-ness and lack of D is what makes it hard to build a lineup around him.  You could make it work if your star was Giannis or Jimmy Butler or some other two-way creator.  But, on a team where Luka and Kyrie are the stars…it just doesn’t work.