(01-27-2024, 04:57 PM)RGP1981 Wrote: Okay, fair enough. So the starting 5 is Kyrie, Green, Luka, Stewart, Lively. With Exum, Bojan and DJJ as the main options off the bench.

That team sounds like it could match up well against Timberwolves, Lakers, 76ers, Bucks, Kings, Rockets and Jazz.

Against the cream of this year's crop though?

Celtics... who is guarding Tatum and Brown?

Suns... who is guarding Durant?

Nuggets... who is guarding MPJ?

Clippers... who is guarding Kawhi and PG3?

OKC... who is guarding SGA and Jaylen Williams?

Pacers... who guarding Siakam?

(01-27-2024, 11:45 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Outside of Luka, is there a single Maverick who could score 43 on 22 shots? I don’t think Hardaway could. Kyrie? I’m honestly not sure he could at this point.

Washington has something. I’m telling you guys.

(01-27-2024, 04:57 PM)RGP1981 Wrote: Celtics... who is guarding Tatum and Brown?
Suns... who is guarding Durant?
Nuggets... who is guarding MPJ?
Clippers... who is guarding Kawhi and PG3?
OKC... who is guarding SGA and Jaylen Williams?
Pacers... who guarding Siakam?

(01-27-2024, 10:12 PM)youzigizag Wrote: PJ Washington tonight...

2 rebounds in 36 minutes...

really

(01-27-2024, 10:27 PM)loki Wrote: I thought the 43 pts on 17-22 FG stood out a little more.

(01-27-2024, 11:45 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Outside of Luka, is there a single Maverick who could score 43 on 22 shots? I don’t think Hardaway could. Kyrie? I’m honestly not sure he could at this point.

Washington has something. I’m telling you guys.

(01-28-2024, 02:11 AM)Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo Wrote: Deni is my guy, but I'm okay with PJ since he'd be cheaper.

I'm just not sure I like the idea of PJ and GW playing together. That's a severely undersized front court. I have a feeling Kidd's going to try that.
GW going out for PJ would be ideal.

GW+Hardy+Holmes+2 seconds enough for PJ+Richards?

(01-28-2024, 04:06 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: Kyrie had 44 on 26 shots 2 weeks ago so pretty close. He's hovered around 40 on 55+% shooting 9 times this season. Of course I know you aren't drawing any sort of comparison between the two, but it's very very VERY likely Kyrie can drop 43 on 22 shots. 


I know you like PJ. He's definitely talented. After the CHA games I've watched I'm left with the same feelings I had when I watched CWood on HOU. Great moments, overall empty calories. 

I believed Wood could turn it around though (though I did say it was a long shot). Maybe I gotta watch more CHA games to see what you're seeing. 

If it was THJ+Hardy for PJ straight up I could get on board.

(01-28-2024, 09:53 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: I’ve been seeing reminders popping up in places (mostly Bobby Marks’ team trade videos) that young, cost-controlled players are kind of becoming the most important capital in the league.

Don’t know if they’re right, because we’ve heard this kind of doom and gloom before and the game’s economy has always adjusted, but people sure seem scared of that 2nd apron. Marks basically said trading Hardy, Lively and O-Max was unthinkable because the economics would soon dictate that they’d all be rotation players.

I found that point interesting, because as we all know, the Mavs’ approach to the draft this year came from left field, relative to their usual. Could the desire for cheaper, cost-controlled players have been the driver for the change? I mean we’ve always argued around here in favor of that kind of wisdom, but did the 2nd apron’s penalties inspire Cuban to start thinking 2-3 steps ahead about avoiding them?

If so, I’m not sure those players are as available as sweeteners as our ideas have assumed. And if they ARE available, I think they might have more trade value than we might be dreaming.

(01-28-2024, 10:15 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: I think there is a balance to be struck.  If the youngsters don’t develop, they could actually lose value.  I don’t see how a winning team has room for developmental minutes for both OMax and Hardy.

(01-28-2024, 10:26 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: Your post is a good one, but it doesn't fully address my point, which I might not have made clear. 

My take on Marks' point is that teams might not have a CHOICE but to play their O-Max and Hardy types, regardless of whether or not they have "room for developmental minutes" for them. Regardless of whether they're trying to win. My takeaway was to wonder if rookie contracts just flat out won't be traded as much, moving forward. 

Your response, well-reasoned as always, was just kind of your usual outlook, stated again. I agree with it, at least in the old paradigm. I'm wondering if our paradigm needs to shift. 

Marks made it seem, at least to me, that he wouldn't even consider trading those guys. I think the words he used were "you can't."

(01-28-2024, 10:55 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: I guess what I’m saying is I don’t totally buy what Marks is saying as an absolute and certainly not as it pertains to Dallas and these rookie scale guys in particular.  I agree that teams are going to want to avoid the second apron if they aren’t in it.  We may see teams take steps to get under it in the next two weeks (Miami?).

Rookie scale deals have two values in a 2-apron world.  If your rookie is good enough to contribute (Lively) it allows you to spend elsewhere until their extension kicks in.  If you are really good and already pushing the 2nd apron, your rookie scale extensions are a way to step over the line temporarily if you already have the depth needed to compete the next season or two.  But, eventually your depth will dwindle and you won’t have a path to replace it adequately.  Denver will be an interesting test for this.  Do their rookies adequately replace Brown?

But, it is all situational and the rookie scale guy has to be the right rookie scale guy.  If you have tied up too much money into 3rd/4th/5th/6th man types, you have to balance that with something (either a lack of stars or rookies).  I think what we are seeing with the contracts that were handed out this summer is teams will try to hold the line on certain archetypes.  Outside of Grant, VanVleet and maybe Bruce Brown’s one year guarantee, everyone else kind of slotted into the reality of their place on a team.  Even some stars like Irving, Middleton and Draymond took “discounts” to what they might have demanded in years past.  I think once teams work off some bad deals, we’ll see more of this slotting.  Good players on rookie scale deals will always be valuable.  But right now Hardy doesn’t fit that definition, the path for him to ‘prove-it’ is difficult and he’s a year from RFA.  I would have no issue cutting that cord for the right opportunity despite what Marks says.  I think doing so would actually help OMax over time, so there is an additional benefit to doing so.

(01-28-2024, 10:59 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: On Tuesday BS pod, Bill Simmons brought up Zach Lavine for Dallas.  LOL

(01-28-2024, 10:45 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: I think you've got to plan for either Hardaway OR Hardy to be in the rotation, moving forward, and I have a feeling it's going to be Hardy.

(01-28-2024, 12:03 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: I went back and listened to Bobby Marks again.  He says nothing about Hardy in his comments about rookie scale guys.  He does mention Lively and OMax as guys he wouldn’t move.

He also put THJ on his list of guys he wouldn’t move.  Personally, I think the PJ deal is GWill + Hardy.  It doesn’t change our outlook substantially, but the lineup makes sense as he’s got a little more size than Williams and a more diverse overall game.  Starters are Lively, PJ, Luka, Kyrie and either Green or Exum.  The other of Green/Exum is off the bench with THJ and DJJ and we probably still need a reliable backup to Lively.  Note that this surrounds THJ with more D…especially if you add a defensive backup C.

Next year OMax takes the DJJ bench spot and if he’s not ready and DJJ doesn’t come back for the TP-MLE, then you find another temporary fix at the TP-MLE until he is ready.  My preference in a PJ deal would be to add Holmes and a top 7 protected first for Richards so that you could have the full MLE next summer.  Some will complain that we are giving up a first for a salary dump, but you are also getting Richards to help with the need behind Lively.  Plus, we don’t know that GWill/Hardy is enough to get PJ done.  So, adding the pick may be required just to get the PJ part done.