(01-25-2024, 11:03 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: I’m a fan.  I also like certain things about trading with Washington.  I’ve mentioned their TPE that covers either Holmes or GWill.  I’ll also point out that Shamet has a pretty sweet contract.  NG next season (decision by 6/29).  Then a TO the season after that.  A good GM could to a lot with that kind of contract and a TPE.

I’d highly consider paying up for Deni if we can move salary into that TPE and get Shamet’s contract as part of the deal.

• He really is a strong defender. He moves his feet so well laterally. Against the Knicks, Deni managed to switch onto Brunson on more than one occasion and force him to either pass or take a tough shot. In that same game he also guarded Randle, Anunoby, and even Hartenstein. All times he didn't look overmatched. He has this spiderman like ability to move with a eurostep while throwing his hands up to contest the shot without fouling. Anyways it's obvious he'd be our point of attack defender here and something that's sorely needed. Between him and Green, the perimeter is well guarded. Further, his weak side defense is great. He is literally always looking to sink in and get the block from behind off of a big man if he can. 
  

• His ability to get to the basket is an underrated part of his game. Avdija has a lot of nifty moves to break down the defense. What really stood out to me was his cuts off the ball within the flow of the offense. The Wizards love to run this stupid Kuzma post up at the wing where he can dish the ball out. In this play it usually was for a Jordan Poole shot, but Avdija loved to curl around when the play broke, and dive to the basket. More on this later
  

• He is a great ball mover. You can see why in his pre-draft mocks he was listed as a mini-Luka. He loves to move the ball around and bring the ball up as a pseudo point guard. In the offense he's almost too passive at times where he elects to pass up an easy drive or shot in favor of another guy. Reminded me a lot of Josh Green in that way. At the same time he also tries some wild passes that don't always find their mark. There was a moment against UTA; Wizards get a fastbreak and Avdija and Kuzma have a 2 on 1 against Markkannen. It looks like an easy dunk is on its way, but Avdija throws a FT line lob to Kuzma that just careens off the glass. On rewatch you see Deni is telegraphing this the whole way and doesn't even realize he had an open dunk the whole time. He can put the ball on the floor off of a PnR and make plays for other guys. He's not elite at it, but he definitely CAN do it. He had great chemistry with Gafford. He had one moment where he dribbled between his legs and looked like a carbon copy of Luka.
  

• He is a solid rebounder for his size. Most of his rebounds came after he defended a drive well and was right there for the cleanup. But he is active on the glass. He likes to box out (!). He isn't a Dennis Rodman or Drummond, but his activity on the glass is miles ahead of our current guys.
  

• Remember how I said he can get to the rim at ease? Yeah well that's about it. He cannot finish for the life of him. The amount of easy layups, floaters, touch shots (you name it) that he clanks off the rim drove me mad. I couldn't understand how someone so skilled enough to get to the rim couldn't actually finish a layup. Is it the Wizards offense? Now don't get me wrong. He can dunk well and an open layup is a piece of cake. But any move off the dribble with a modicum of defense is going to be a miss 95% of the time. 
  

• I know his percentages say he's a solid shooter, but he's a smidge below average imo. Statistically in his career he's a 32% 3pt shooter and in the games I watched I can see why. There are times where he spots up and has no legs in his jumpshot and its short. He does not take a lot of threes. Against UTA he only took 1. Again think in the mindset of Josh Green in that he is always looking for the open man. In an offense with Luka and Kyrie I can see him excelling as a spot up guy. Still if we were to get him don't expect anything much here. 
  

(01-26-2024, 01:53 AM)MarkAguirreWrathofGod Wrote: Bulls GM: “we’ll take Cade! No? Ok, no problem Duren! No to him too huh? Ok Ausar! No Ausar? Ok I guess Ivey it is.”

(01-26-2024, 12:00 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Stein has a piece out just now that says he’s told this deal may happen sooner than later.  He doesn’t think it will be any of the youngsters other than possibly Ivey.

Does Chicago really need Bogdanovic?  Seems silly from a talent standpoint.  Seems OK from a cap management standpoint, but is the smart play here to be a buyer in free agency?  If Stein is being told this might happen soon, is the whisper coming from Dallas?  Could we be in on Bogdanovic + (maybe Drummond or Caruso or Carter or something).  Dallas makes more sense for Bogdanovic that Chicago IMHO.

(01-26-2024, 12:01 PM)BigDirk41 Wrote: Giving up a first needs to be for someone that moves the needle with this team.

(01-26-2024, 12:21 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: From my "ideal roles" thread, it needs to be for someone who is in the 4-5 range. My divergence from omahen is that there is zero path to a 3 with the assets we have. Miles Bridges would be a possibility, if we 1) had zero conscience and 2) didn't have the history of bad optics in these areas (not to mention a wife-beating coach).

(01-26-2024, 12:24 PM)omahen Wrote: I think you missunderstood me a bit. I think there is highly unlikely to get number 3 with our assets. But I prefer to wait till offseason than pay 2027 for a meh player hoping to become something more with us.

(01-26-2024, 12:29 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: It seems like most of the teams looking to trade are looking for firsts.  Even for guys who are nothing more than solid rotation pieces.  We will see if the asking price comes down.  With a weak draft, some teams may be willing to forfeit a first round draft pick this year.    But there are not a lot of teams flush with mulitple picks.  If the trading teams do not lower their demands, it may help the Mavs.  Maybe not this deadline because Dallas doesn't have expirings, but maybe this offseason where we will have guys entering expiring plus 3 picks.  Something like a first and Holmes for Deni and two firsts, asset, Hardaway and stuff for Grant.    Getting two players for those three picks instead of one.

(01-26-2024, 12:37 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: OK, then I definitely misunderstood your perspective. Your take, then, is that we don't need to improve around the edges, but to strengthen the core of the roster. I took that to mean that you were saying they needed to get someone great (3-esque) at the deadline. You're saying, no, wait until the offseason. Is that right? If that's the case, you're on much the same page KL is. 

My perspective would be that 1) no trade is likely to help the Mavs win more games/get farther in the playoffs this year, but 2) they need to take much the same tack they did this past summer - long-view, opportunistic moves that make us better long term. Shrewdness and maximization of assets. 

Their path to improvement this year imho is 1) fire Kidd today, hire Adrian (Mav vet!) as the interim coach, and go big game hunting for a top five coach this summer (won't happen, but it's the clear move *today*), 2) play OMax at least 10 mpg of non-garbage time the rest of the year - develop the man, because his ceiling is just what we need, 3) if someone wants to give us something better-fitting and more useful at the deadline than Holmes, GW, Green, or Hardy without us sending out 27, do that.

---

I'm not sold on Grant as a 2 FRP guy.

(01-26-2024, 11:49 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: Okay I did it so you don't have to. I actually watched 5 Wizards games. I picked 5 random games from the calendar without looking at the boxscore. Of course they were all losses, but I really wanted to see how Deni performed. 

The Good

• He really is a strong defender. He moves his feet so well latterly. Against the Knicks, Deni managed to switch onto Brunson on more than one occasion and force him to either pass or take a tough shot. In that same game he also guarded Randle, Anunoby, and even Hartenstein. All times he didn't look overmatched. He has this spiderman like ability to move with a eurostep while throwing his hands up to contest the shot without fouling. Anyways it's obvious he'd be our point of attack defender here and something that's sorely needed. Between him and Green, the perimeter is well guarded. Further, his weak side defense is great. He is literally always looking to sink in and get the block from behind off of a big man if he can. 
  

• His ability to get to the basket is an underrated part of his game. Avdija has a lot of nifty moves to break down the defense. What really stood out to me was his cuts off the ball within the flow of the offense. The Wizards love to run this stupid Kuzma post up at the wing where he can dish the ball out. In this play it usually was for a Jordan Poole shot, but Avdija loved to curl around when the play broke, and dive to the basket. More on this later
  

• He is a great ball mover. You can see why in his pre-draft mocks he was listed as a mini-Luka. He loves to move the ball around and bring the ball up as a pseudo point guard. In the offense he's almost too passive at times where he elects to pass up an easy drive or shot in favor of another guy. Reminded me a lot of Josh Green in that way. At the same time he also tries some wild passes that don't always find their mark. There was a moment against UTA; Wizards get a fastbreak and Avdija and Kuzma have a 2 on 1 against Markkannen. It looks like an easy dunk is on its way, but Avdija throws a FT line lob to Kuzma that just careens off the glass. On rewatch you see Deni is telegraphing this the whole way and doesn't even realize he had an open dunk the whole time. He can put the ball on the floor off of a PnR and make plays for other guys. He's not elite at it, but he definitely CAN do it. He had great chemistry with Gafford. He had one moment where he dribbled between his legs and looked like a carbon copy of Luka.
  

• He is a solid rebounder for his size. Most of his rebounds came after he defended a drive well and was right there for the cleanup. But he is active on the glass. He likes to box out (!). He isn't a Dennis Rodman or Drummond, but his activity on the glass is miles ahead of our current guys.
  

The Bad

• Remember how I said he can get to the rim at ease? Yeah well that's about it. He cannot finish for the life of him. The amount of easy layups, floaters, touch shots (you name it) that he clanks off the rim drove me mad. I couldn't understand how someone so skilled enough to get to the rim couldn't actually finish a layup. Is it the Wizards offense? Now don't get me wrong. He can dunk well and an open layup is a piece of cake. But any move off the dribble with a modicum of defense is going to be a miss 95% of the time. 
  

• I know his percentages say he's a solid shooter, but he's a smidge below average imo. Statistically in his career he's a 32% 3pt shooter and in the games I watched I can see why. There are times where he spots up and has no legs in his jumpshot and its short. He does not take a lot of threes. Against UTA he only took 1. Again think in the mindset of Josh Green in that he is always looking for the open man. In an offense with Luka and Kyrie I can see him excelling as a spot up guy. Still if we were to get him don't expect anything much here. 
  

Overall Deni is a high quality role player. A great 5th-6th man. I don't think he's a starter on a championship team. To give up a 2027 1st for him to me is like giving up a 1st for a bigger Josh Green. Not a bad player, but a severe overpay and is more a finishing move. Now if we could get him for 2 2nds? Sure I'm down.

(01-26-2024, 12:01 PM)BigDirk41 Wrote: Giving up a first needs to be for someone that moves the needle with this team.

(01-26-2024, 01:02 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: seems like the type of move we would be able to make.  His overpaid Minny days would make him a solid #4 option.  His championship run with the Warriors made him a core piece on a contender.  The last two years are a big ?.    You would think if he can't play well in GS with Kerr, how can you expect him playing better in Dallas with Kidd?  Any deal consideration would be no picks and just our spare parts.  Not sure I would do it though.

https://twitter.com/MavsFilmRoom/status/1750936276721934578

(01-26-2024, 12:37 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: OK, then I definitely misunderstood your perspective. Your take, then, is that we don't need to improve around the edges, but to strengthen the core of the roster. I took that to mean that you were saying they needed to get someone great (3-esque) at the deadline. You're saying, no, wait until the offseason. Is that right? If that's the case, you're on much the same page KL is. 

My perspective would be that 1) no trade is likely to help the Mavs win more games/get farther in the playoffs this year, but 2) they need to take much the same tack they did this past summer - long-view, opportunistic moves that make us better long term. Shrewdness and maximization of assets. 

Their path to improvement this year imho is 1) fire Kidd today, hire Adrian (Mav vet!) as the interim coach, and go big game hunting for a top five coach this summer (won't happen, but it's the clear move *today*), 2) play OMax at least 10 mpg of non-garbage time the rest of the year - develop the man, because his ceiling is just what we need, 3) if someone wants to give us something better-fitting and more useful at the deadline than Holmes, GW, Green, or Hardy without us sending out 27, do that.

---

I'm not sold on Grant as a 2 FRP guy.

(01-26-2024, 01:08 PM)surfpuckmd Wrote: We have one first-round pick and a lot of bad contracts.  Any player we obtain for that will probably only move the needle a little.  We don't have the assets for a big upgrade.

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(01-26-2024, 12:57 PM)surfpuckmd Wrote: I like your post but disagree with your conclusion.  Deni is similar to Josh only he's much bigger, rebounds much better and is a significantly better defensive player.  So, not very similar at all.  Josh has the potential to be an excellent defensive player but remains below average defensively on all the metrics including EPM, LEBRON and DRIP.  They are similar in that they are not stars and aren't high usage players.  

We need an elite role player and that's what Deni has the potential to become.  As he is currently, Deni would be the 4th or 5th best player on the Mavericks.  He would be an upgrade over DJJ and a massive upgrade over Grant Williams.  He's also only 23 and is much better this season than he was last season.  You have to pay something for potential in this case.

I don't think Deni is the best player we could add to this roster.  However, I think he is among the best players who are potentially available that we can afford.

There are approximately 20 teams who would like to improve at the deadline and only 4 or 5 who look to be open to trading their players.  Adding talent is currently very expensive.

I watched this board debate for two months whether or not Siakam would be a good fit here or not.  The vast majority of this board argued that we could obtain him for our 2027 1st and some crap contracts.  Ultimately, Toronto secured 3-first round picks and a good player on a flexible contract for him.  We never had the assets to be taken seriously there.  

We actually gave up a 2030 first round pick swap to obtain Grant Williams who was the 8th-best player on the Celtics last season.  Acquiring talent is expensive.  Acquiring young talent is even more expensive.

We've hit a low-point in the current season as we just don't have enough good players next to Luka, Kyrie and Lively to compete with other good teams.  We should be attempting to upgrade our role players.  Aaron Gordon and KCP are good role players.  The Nuggets won the championship with them starting.  Many posters are frustrated with Luka lately but I think Luka is surely frustrated being stuck with Grant Williams, Maxi Kleber and Josh Green as key supporting rotation players.

I believe Deni Avdija, WCJ, Gafford and Isaiah Stewart are the best players we can potentially afford to acquire before the deadline.  I think each of them would probably require our 2027 1st to obtain.  There are a lot of good teams with a lot of first-round picks who we would be bidding against.  

The alternative is to just sit on our current roster and finish somewhere between 7th and 11th in the Western Conference this season.  The upside of that is we'd have a new coach for next season.  I think we'd also see a lot of Luka Doncic mock trades as well.

(01-26-2024, 01:08 PM)surfpuckmd Wrote: Trading for Wiggins is much worse than doing nothing.  

(01-26-2024, 01:13 PM)RoyTarpleysGhost Wrote: Trading for Wiggins would officially stick a fork in what little hope I have left for this iteration of the Mavs.