(01-08-2024, 06:27 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: I look at it similarly.  I think Green eventually starts here alongside Luka, Kyrie, Lively and NewPF, but that  is an argument for another day (we are 7-1 when he starts).  You then have NewBackupC along with Exum (guards 1-3), DJJ (guards 2-4) and eventually OMax (Guards 3/4).  The nice thing about NewPF and DJJ is between them and (hopefully) Maxi you don't have to have OMax ready for this season's playoffs.  You can run an 8 man playoff rotation without him.

The bench is light on offense, but we don't platoon.  If NewPF can create (unlike THJ who currently occupies this salary or GWill), then you can keep two of Luka/Kyrie/NewPF on the floor at all times.  You also have Green and Exum who can help with ball handling and distribution.

So, Ideally NewPF can create for themselves and others and hit a 3 (think Bojan/Kuzma/Grant), but also defend and rebound (think Not Bojan/Kuzma/Grant).  We've talked about a ton of names and no one who is available seems to fit the bill.  A backup C is another position where there is disagreement about.  Do we run 48 minutes of a similar skill set or do we need a differentiated skill set (a better and healthy Maxi).  

To me, the guys who aren't necessary to this vision (besides Holmes) are THJ (I think his D and lack of playmaking is really detrimental), GWill (not good enough to start and blocks OMax backup opportunities) and Hardy.  Does anyone else even matter?  I would pay a premium if I could fill NewPF and NewBackupC all at one time as long as I don't have to touch the Luka/Irving/Lively/Green/Exum/DJJ/OMax core.  I'd also give up 2027 unprotected and add swaps if the level of player was high enough.  I know many here want to wait until the summer (or put better...think we have a better shot at accomplishing both this summer).  But, fill those two slots properly...now...and I think we can run with anyone in the playoffs.

(01-08-2024, 06:27 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: I look at it similarly.  I think Green eventually starts here alongside Luka, Kyrie, Lively and NewPF, but that  is an argument for another day (we are 7-1 when he starts).  You then have NewBackupC along with Exum (guards 1-3), DJJ (guards 2-4) and eventually OMax (Guards 3/4).  The nice thing about NewPF and DJJ is between them and (hopefully) Maxi you don't have to have OMax ready for this season's playoffs.  You can run an 8 man playoff rotation without him.

The bench is light on offense, but we don't platoon.  If NewPF can create (unlike THJ who currently occupies this salary or GWill), then you can keep two of Luka/Kyrie/NewPF on the floor at all times.  You also have Green and Exum who can help with ball handling and distribution.

So, Ideally NewPF can create for themselves and others and hit a 3 (think Bojan/Kuzma/Grant), but also defend and rebound (think Not Bojan/Kuzma/Grant).  We've talked about a ton of names and no one who is available seems to fit the bill.  A backup C is another position where there is disagreement about.  Do we run 48 minutes of a similar skill set or do we need a differentiated skill set (a better and healthy Maxi).  

To me, the guys who aren't necessary to this vision (besides Holmes) are THJ (I think his D and lack of playmaking is really detrimental), GWill (not good enough to start and blocks OMax backup opportunities) and Hardy.  Does anyone else even matter?  I would pay a premium if I could fill NewPF and NewBackupC all at one time as long as I don't have to touch the Luka/Irving/Lively/Green/Exum/DJJ/OMax core.  I'd also give up 2027 unprotected and add swaps if the level of player was high enough.  I know many here want to wait until the summer (or put better...think we have a better shot at accomplishing both this summer).  But, fill those two slots properly...now...and I think we can run with anyone in the playoffs.

(01-08-2024, 06:27 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: I would pay a premium if I could fill NewPF and NewBackupC all at one time as long as I don't have to touch the Luka/Irving/Lively/Green/Exum/DJJ/OMax core.  I'd also give up 2027 unprotected and add swaps if the level of player was high enough.   

(01-08-2024, 06:27 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: I look at it similarly.  I think Green eventually starts here alongside Luka, Kyrie, Lively and NewPF, but that  is an argument for another day (we are 7-1 when he starts).  You then have NewBackupC along with Exum (guards 1-3), DJJ (guards 2-4) and eventually OMax (Guards 3/4).  The nice thing about NewPF and DJJ is between them and (hopefully) Maxi you don't have to have OMax ready for this season's playoffs.  You can run an 8 man playoff rotation without him.

The bench is light on offense, but we don't platoon.  If NewPF can create (unlike THJ who currently occupies this salary or GWill), then you can keep two of Luka/Kyrie/NewPF on the floor at all times.  You also have Green and Exum who can help with ball handling and distribution.

So, Ideally NewPF can create for themselves and others and hit a 3 (think Bojan/Kuzma/Grant), but also defend and rebound (think Not Bojan/Kuzma/Grant).  We've talked about a ton of names and no one who is available seems to fit the bill.  A backup C is another position where there is disagreement about.  Do we run 48 minutes of a similar skill set or do we need a differentiated skill set (a better and healthy Maxi).  

To me, the guys who aren't necessary to this vision (besides Holmes) are THJ (I think his D and lack of playmaking is really detrimental), GWill (not good enough to start and blocks OMax backup opportunities) and Hardy.  Does anyone else even matter?  I would pay a premium if I could fill NewPF and NewBackupC all at one time as long as I don't have to touch the Luka/Irving/Lively/Green/Exum/DJJ/OMax core.  I'd also give up 2027 unprotected and add swaps if the level of player was high enough.  I know many here want to wait until the summer (or put better...think we have a better shot at accomplishing both this summer).  But, fill those two slots properly...now...and I think we can run with anyone in the playoffs.

(01-08-2024, 06:27 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: So, Ideally NewPF can create for themselves and others and hit a 3 (think Bojan/Kuzma/Grant), but also defend and rebound (think Not Bojan/Kuzma/Grant).  We've talked about a ton of names and no one who is available seems to fit the bill.  A backup C is another position where there is disagreement about.  Do we run 48 minutes of a similar skill set or do we need a differentiated skill set (a better and healthy Maxi).  

To me, the guys who aren't necessary to this vision (besides Holmes) are THJ (I think his D and lack of playmaking is really detrimental), GWill (not good enough to start and blocks OMax backup opportunities) and Hardy.  Does anyone else even matter?  I would pay a premium if I could fill NewPF and NewBackupC all at one time as long as I don't have to touch the Luka/Irving/Lively/Green/Exum/DJJ/OMax core.  I'd also give up 2027 unprotected and add swaps if the level of player was high enough.  I know many here want to wait until the summer (or put better...think we have a better shot at accomplishing both this summer).  But, fill those two slots properly...now...and I think we can run with anyone in the playoffs.

(01-08-2024, 06:56 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Here is an idea that I think is clever and fits the NewPF and NewBackupC theory...

The deal is THJ/GWill/Hardy/Draft compensation for Avdija (23)/Gafford (25).

I think Gafford at $12mm is a decent combination of cost and skill behind Lively and you haven't paid him so much that you question Lively's status as #1.  

I suspect the trickier one for most here will be Avdija.  His D-Reb% is a surprising 20.8 for his career (J. Grant is 12).  And his Assist% is 12.6 for his career (and 19 for the current season).  He's recognized as a defender, can attack the rim off the dribble and is up to .347 from three (.438 from the corner, but the sample is small).  He also fits the mold of DJJ, Exum and Green in that he doesn't have to score to contribute (important on a team with Luka and Kyrie).  I also think he can play next to OMax when the time comes.

The clever part of this is THJ/Hardy is a match for Avdija/Gafford and Washington has a TPE that GWill (or Holmes) would fit into.  So, you are reducing salary next season ($29mm for Avdija/Gafford vs. $31mm for the outgoing) or you've created a TPE that you can use that is similar to the MLE but wouldn't hard cap you if you use it (I think) in case you can't keep DJJ.

The ball movement here would be incredible and the age of Avdija fits in well with Green, Lively and OMax for when Kyrie has aged out.  I would give up a lot to make that happen.

(01-08-2024, 08:11 PM)mvossman Wrote: Thats a trade I consider tossing in an unprotected first for.  But why does Washington do it?  Why would they send out young cost controlled assets?

(01-08-2024, 09:50 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Yeah, it would take the unprotected 2027.  Maybe more.

Or, we can trade for Kelly Olynyk.  He plays both PF and C.  Problem solved.

(01-08-2024, 10:06 PM)mvossman Wrote: Don't really see Olynyk as a solution to all our problems, but I do see value there.  Wonder what he would cost?  Holmes + Hardy?  Makes room for DJJ as well.

(01-08-2024, 06:56 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Here is an idea that I think is clever and fits the NewPF and NewBackupC theory...

The deal is THJ/GWill/Hardy/Draft compensation for Avdija (23)/Gafford (25).

I think Gafford at $12mm is a decent combination of cost and skill behind Lively and you haven't paid him so much that you question Lively's status as #1.  

I suspect the trickier one for most here will be Avdija.  His D-Reb% is a surprising 20.8 for his career (J. Grant is 12).  And his Assist% is 12.6 for his career (and 19 for the current season).  He's recognized as a defender, can attack the rim off the dribble and is up to .347 from three (.438 from the corner, but the sample is small).  He also fits the mold of DJJ, Exum and Green in that he doesn't have to score to contribute (important on a team with Luka and Kyrie).  I also think he can play next to OMax when the time comes.

The clever part of this is THJ/Hardy is a match for Avdija/Gafford and Washington has a TPE that GWill (or Holmes) would fit into.  So, you are reducing salary next season ($29mm for Avdija/Gafford vs. $31mm for the outgoing) or you've created a TPE that you can use that is similar to the MLE but wouldn't hard cap you if you use it (I think) in case you can't keep DJJ.

The ball movement here would be incredible and the age of Avdija fits in well with Green, Lively and OMax for when Kyrie has aged out.  I would give up a lot to make that happen.

(01-08-2024, 11:47 PM)surfpuckmd Wrote: With Ja Morant out for the season, the Grizzlies might consider tanking the rest of the year.  One interesting player in their rotation who we could use is Santi Aldama.  He is 6'11 and pretty skilled for a big.  He's shooting 34 percent from three but the form looks good and there is potential to improve there.  He's already solid defensively and rebounds fairly well.  He's probably more of a PF than a center.  I think he would work well here.   I haven't seen him mentioned on this board as a target.  

The deal would be Jaden Hardy for Santi Aldama.  We add our Maxi replacement and the Grizzlies add a young guy who can score.  Aldama would look good on the second unit with DP but could also start against bigger teams.

He might be available as Steven Adams and Brandon Clarke will be their centers next season. JJJ is one of their best players and David Roddy plays the same position as Aldama. I think this would work.

(01-08-2024, 09:59 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Reporting on Sacramento’s offer for Siakam says it was based around Barnes and draft compensation.  It would have taken another salary (probably Huerter).  First pick Sacramento can deal is 2026.

Is that really that different than THJ/GWill and 2027 (if we were willing to do that)?  Siakam’ s unwillingness to stay in Sacramento this summer reportedly killed the deal for the Kings.

(01-08-2024, 06:27 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: So, Ideally NewPF can create for themselves and others and hit a 3 (think Bojan/Kuzma/Grant), but also defend and rebound (think Not Bojan/Kuzma/Grant).  We've talked about a ton of names and no one who is available seems to fit the bill.  A backup C is another position where there is disagreement about.  Do we run 48 minutes of a similar skill set or do we need a differentiated skill set (a better and healthy Maxi).  

(01-09-2024, 03:36 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: I don't think we have to overthink this. Pascal has been on the list of most ideal players we've wanted next to Luka for the last 3 years. He checks all the boxes. His shooting is spotty, but his self creation (AND efficiency) cancels that out. My only concern is his desire for a max deal and perhaps want to be next to Embiid. Mavs could theoretically offer 5/249 this summer. Any other team's max is 4/185. That's a significant difference. Even 5/220 blows any other offer out the water and still keeps Pascal making close to what both Luka and Kyrie are making annually. 

If we let it get to the summer, the Mavs have no leverage. Everything is on the table besides the core you laid out of Luka, Kyrie, Lively Green, Exum, Omax, DJJ core to me. I'd ideally try and keep Grant, but if they're not apart of the core they are available.

(01-09-2024, 01:26 AM)omahen Wrote: Could it be understood that Toronto accepted this offer?

I may be wrong, but my understanding was that Toronto wanted more (Murray) and Sacramento went out because they were unwilling to discuss more because of the uncertainty.

(01-09-2024, 03:36 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: The person you are describing is Pascal Siakam. 

Ability to create for themselves? Check. 

Ability to hit a 3? Back when Pascal had an actual point guard setting him up, and another star to take the bulk pressure, he was a solid 3pt shooter. 21-22 he shot 36.5% on catch and shoot 3s. 37.4% if he was wide open. This trend holds in 20-21, 19-20, and 18-19 (C&S numbers respectively for the years: 31.3% 36.1%, 38.1%). I am confident that Pascal's looks at 3 will raise his percentages significantly playing next to Kyrie and Luka. Case in point DJJ. 

Ability to play defense and be a versatile defender? Check. Pascal is 6'8 230lbs. He can move his feet like DFS to keep up with shifty guards and is big enough to bother centers. His defensive acumen is well known at this point, and although he isn't a lockdown defender by any means, he certainly fits the mold of the type of forward Kidd likes in his scheme. He's big enough to play a small ball 5 and shifty enough to stop an opposing teams 2-guard. 

Ability to rebound? Check. He's a career 6.5rpg guy. Last 5 years that's closer to 8rpg. 

I don't think we have to overthink this. Pascal has been on the list of most ideal players we've wanted next to Luka for the last 3 years. He checks all the boxes. His shooting is spotty, but his self creation (AND efficiency) cancels that out. My only concern is his desire for a max deal and perhaps want to be next to Embiid. Mavs could theoretically offer 5/249 this summer. Any other team's max is 4/185. That's a significant difference. Even 5/220 blows any other offer out the water and still keeps Pascal making close to what both Luka and Kyrie are making annually. 

If we let it get to the summer, the Mavs have no leverage. Everything is on the table besides the core you laid out of Luka, Kyrie, Lively Green, Exum, Omax, DJJ core to me. I'd ideally try and keep Grant, but if they're not apart of the core they are available.

(01-08-2024, 10:29 PM)surfpuckmd Wrote: Assuming we're giving up our 2027 1st round pick in this deal, I still don't think it would be fair for Washington.  Gafford is worth a 1st by himself.  Avdija is a better player than Grant Williams.  Jaden Hardy probably isn't a great fit there.  They have several shooting guards already with Coulibaly as the most promising player on their roster and Jordan Poole as one of their highest paid players.  

Avdija and Gafford would both be good targets for us.  I just don't think we have the assets for both.  

I think a Richaun Holmes and a 1st for Gafford is probably the most realistic deal.  I'd make that personally but I don't think many others on the board would.

I also would love to exchange Grant Williams for Avdija.  I think that might also cost a 1st round pick.  Avdija has been much improved this season.  Grant Williams has been disappointing.