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RE: Trade & FA 2023-24:Hardy removes Mavs from social media| Pascal to be traded - Jmaciscool - 01-05-2024
(01-05-2024, 12:38 PM)F Gump Wrote: The conversation about KP reminds me of a truth which I'm not sure has been mentioned, and I certainly have not been considering it, but that is very relevant.
Which is, Cuban's bias is to trade for star-level players who could fit the Mavs roster, if he thinks they are available and can be bought at a reasonable price. (And sometimes, even if the price is somewhat ridiculous.)
PS certainly seems to fit all those boxes.
I think I must be misunderstanding something here. If a star player who could fit the Mavs roster is available at a reasonable price then isn't that something you'd want the Mavs to pursue?
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Woj- Indiana expected to probe Siakam| OKC not expected to trade - surfpuckmd - 01-05-2024
(01-05-2024, 11:47 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: He's the worst. I'm glad he's gone.
I miss Dinwiddie (whom I never wanted) much more than I miss Porzingis, and he will be the reason that Boston team fails, I promise. Too slow. Too soft. Couldn't guard the pick and roll if his life depended on it.
I think young Luka wasn't willing to adjust his game to the presence of another star who needed the ball some on offense. Luka had always been the sun and everything had always revolved around him.
I think Porzingis thought of himself as the unicorn at the time and wanted to be treated as such. That didn't work out next to Luka. The Celtics version of Porzingis is pretty phenomenal.
I think they both required some maturity and experience. I think if you brought Porzingis back now it would work much better.
Dinwiddie is a decent player. It's crazy we traded Porzingis for a decent player and one of the league's worst contracts and we still included a draft asset. Cuban must have been using a psychedelic when he approved that trade.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24:Hardy removes Mavs from social media| Pascal to be traded - Chicagojk - 01-05-2024
(01-05-2024, 12:16 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: From Jake Fischer
“Other teams mentioned, such as Dallas and Philadelphia, don’t appear as viable destinations at this juncture, although Toronto officials have suggested to inquiring front offices as many as 10 teams hold legitimate interest in Siakam, sources said.”
“Dallas has long rebuffed inquiries for Josh Green, sources said, fresh off a 3-year, $41 million extension that begins in 2024-25.”
The Sacramento Kings have made Harrison Barnes, Kevin Huerter and Davion Mitchell available for trade, per @JakeLFischer
“Of late, Atlanta has informed numerous teams the only untouchable players on the Hawks’ roster are Young and rising third-year forward Jalen Johnson, sources said.”
It can't be Detroit right? They need to be involved as a third team right? If they are really going to make an aggressive offer for Siakam, someone needs to take the keys away from that GM.
Sacramento would be really interesting with Siakam. They just don't have that prime asset. Those are 2.5 good players with Mitchell still TBD. But I don't think that moves the needle for Toronto. Even with a few draft picks.
Morey in Philly will do a deal but he won't over pay. I could see him making a move with picks for Caruso while keeping max room for Siakam or George. He will think big.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24:Hardy removes Mavs from social media| Pascal to be traded - RoyTarpleysGhost - 01-05-2024
(01-05-2024, 12:41 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: https://x.com/shamscharania/status/1743325699350401078?s=46&t=iwQP5yZoJF3Ulzfb9MH7Cg
Would be a strong lynchpin in a Siakam trade. Question what else would GS need to offer?
Was gonna ask…do we want Kuminga?
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Woj- Indiana expected to probe Siakam| OKC not expected to trade - Chicagojk - 01-05-2024
(01-05-2024, 12:57 PM)surfpuckmd Wrote: I think young Luka wasn't willing to adjust his game to the presence of another star who needed the ball some on offense. Luka had always been the sun and everything had always revolved around him.well said. KP was not healthy here so that is the main reason it did not work out. I mentioned at the time if we traded him at the wrong time, but than we had the WCF run.
I think Porzingis thought of himself as the unicorn at the time and wanted to be treated as such. That didn't work out next to Luka. The Celtics version of Porzingis is pretty phenomenal.
I think they both required some maturity and experience. I think if you brought Porzingis back now it would work much better.
Dinwiddie is a decent player. It's crazy we traded Porzingis for a decent player and one of the league's worst contracts and we still included a draft asset. Cuban must have been using a psychedelic when he approved that trade.
KP wasn't efficient due to his health, but my main thing is we treated him like DFS. As in, he would get the ball when he was open. For a guy of KP level, those guys like to touch the ball. You could feel the frustration when he didn't touch the ball for a few minutes and then launched a 27 foot three when he did touch it.
KP has been great this year and has been a key difference maker. Now can he stay healthy? We will see. The gamble was well worth it for Boston as they look like the best team when KP is healthy.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Woj- Indiana expected to probe Siakam| OKC not expected to trade - mvossman - 01-05-2024
(01-05-2024, 12:57 PM)surfpuckmd Wrote: I think young Luka wasn't willing to adjust his game to the presence of another star who needed the ball some on offense. Luka had always been the sun and everything had always revolved around him.
I think Porzingis thought of himself as the unicorn at the time and wanted to be treated as such. That didn't work out next to Luka. The Celtics version of Porzingis is pretty phenomenal.
I think they both required some maturity and experience. I think if you brought Porzingis back now it would work much better.
Dinwiddie is a decent player. It's crazy we traded Porzingis for a decent player and one of the league's worst contracts and we still included a draft asset. Cuban must have been using a psychedelic when he approved that trade.
Based on comments by our players after the second trade (like Brunson and Dorian) and KP comments now, it seems clear that it was a KP issue, not a Luka issue. He is playing in Boston like he played his first year here, and if he stuck to that instead of looking for his, he would probably still be on the team.
I also think he has some defensive limitations that Boston's roster is more setup to hide. I still think he may get exposed in the playoffs (assuming he is healthy at the time).
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24:Hardy removes Mavs from social media| Pascal to be traded - Scott41theMavs - 01-05-2024
(01-05-2024, 12:16 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: From Jake Fischer
“Other teams mentioned, such as Dallas and Philadelphia, don’t appear as viable destinations at this juncture, although Toronto officials have suggested to inquiring front offices as many as 10 teams hold legitimate interest in Siakam, sources said.”
“Dallas has long rebuffed inquiries for Josh Green, sources said, fresh off a 3-year, $41 million extension that begins in 2024-25.”
The Sacramento Kings have made Harrison Barnes, Kevin Huerter and Davion Mitchell available for trade, per @JakeLFischer
“Of late, Atlanta has informed numerous teams the only untouchable players on the Hawks’ roster are Young and rising third-year forward Jalen Johnson, sources said.”
Josh Green, whose new contract is already beginning to look albatross-y, is the holdup? Good gravy, can we please stop falling in love with our mid players?
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24:Hardy removes Mavs from social media| Pascal to be traded - surfpuckmd - 01-05-2024
(01-05-2024, 01:04 PM)RoyTarpleysGhost Wrote: Was gonna ask…do we want Kuminga?
Yes. I would definitely want Kuminga. I would offer up our unprotected 2027 1st to get him. If he goes in a Siakam deal though, I'm pretty sure the Raptors would plan to keep him for themselves. He has the potential to be exactly what we need next to Lively.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Woj- Indiana expected to probe Siakam| OKC not expected to trade - dirkfansince1998 - 01-05-2024
(01-05-2024, 12:57 PM)surfpuckmd Wrote: I think young Luka wasn't willing to adjust his game to the presence of another star who needed the ball some on offense. Luka had always been the sun and everything had always revolved around him.
I think Porzingis thought of himself as the unicorn at the time and wanted to be treated as such. That didn't work out next to Luka. The Celtics version of Porzingis is pretty phenomenal.
I think they both required some maturity and experience. I think if you brought Porzingis back now it would work much better.
Dinwiddie is a decent player. It's crazy we traded Porzingis for a decent player and one of the league's worst contracts and we still included a draft asset. Cuban must have been using a psychedelic when he approved that trade.
KP has accepted a "lesser" role in Boston. They have Tatum and behind him it is another guy stepping up and getting his opportunities each game. KP isn't creating as much for himself. Mostly finishing plays (catch and shoot, pick and roll, mismatches with deep post position).
But one thing didn't change. He already missed nine games and the Celtics didn't look any worse without him (7-2).
We also shouldn't forget that the Mavs improved after the KP trade. SD had a phenomenal run to close out the season (including multiple game winners) and Brunson looked like a legit 2nd option. Don't think they make the WCF run with KP.
As you already stated the Celtics didn't pay all that much for KP. Looking at the trade he was worth less than Marcus Smart. Now he is in the perfect spot to hide his short comings. Surrounded by four all-defense level perimeter defenders. Something the Mavs never had. Certainly don't have right now. He wouldn't look as good if teams could still target him in the pick and roll (remains to be seen if they find a way to do it in the playoffs).
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Woj- Indiana expected to probe Siakam| OKC not expected to trade - mvossman - 01-05-2024
(01-05-2024, 01:08 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: well said. KP was not healthy here so that is the main reason it did not work out. I mentioned at the time if we traded him at the wrong time, but than we had the WCF run.
KP wasn't efficient due to his health, but my main thing is we treated him like DFS. As in, he would get the ball when he was open. For a guy of KP level, those guys like to touch the ball. You could feel the frustration when he didn't touch the ball for a few minutes and then launched a 27 foot three when he did touch it.
KP has been great this year and has been a key difference maker. Now can he stay healthy? We will see. The gamble was well worth it for Boston as they look like the best team when KP is healthy.
Isn't KP playing that same way for Boston now though? That is how he is most useful, and he is doing it in Boston without complaint, unlike here.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24:Hardy removes Mavs from social media| Pascal to be traded - F Gump - 01-05-2024
(01-05-2024, 12:55 PM)Jmaciscool Wrote: I think I must be misunderstanding something here. If a star player who could fit the Mavs roster is available at a reasonable price then isn't that something you'd want the Mavs to pursue?
I was only offering an observation on Cuban, and the likelihood of the Mavs trying to make a deal. Just an observation.
"Cuban's bias is to trade for star-level players who could fit the Mavs roster, if he thinks they are available and can be bought at a reasonable price. (And sometimes, even if the price is somewhat ridiculous.)
PS certainly seems to fit all those boxes."
If you thought I was evaluating that preference, yes you misunderstood me. I made no comment about whether that was a good idea or a bad one. It was just an observation on what Cuban likes to do, and nothing about me.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Woj- Indiana expected to probe Siakam| OKC not expected to trade - surfpuckmd - 01-05-2024
(01-05-2024, 01:18 PM)mvossman Wrote: Based on comments by our players after the second trade (like Brunson and Dorian) and KP comments now, it seems clear that it was a KP issue, not a Luka issue. He is playing in Boston like he played his first year here, and if he stuck to that instead of looking for his, he would probably still be on the team.
I also think he has some defensive limitations that Boston's roster is more setup to hide. I still think he may get exposed in the playoffs (assuming he is healthy at the time).
Just because KP accepted responsibility doesn't mean it was all his fault. When things don't work out, there are often several people who deserve some blame. Maybe Luka just isn't mature enough to declare some personal responsibility for the failure.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Woj- Indiana expected to probe Siakam| OKC not expected to trade - KillerLeft - 01-05-2024
(01-05-2024, 12:57 PM)surfpuckmd Wrote: I think young Luka wasn't willing to adjust his game to the presence of another star who needed the ball some on offense. Luka had always been the sun and everything had always revolved around him.
I think Porzingis thought of himself as the unicorn at the time and wanted to be treated as such.
I agree with all of the above, but it doesn't change for me what was the primary problem. The big problem was that Porzingis did not move well enough to defend the pick and roll. Period. Conversation over (for me), because he will NEVER be effective in the playoffs, once teams spread your defense out.
It's just a dead end for me. He's too slow.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Woj- Indiana expected to probe Siakam| OKC not expected to trade - KillerLeft - 01-05-2024
(01-05-2024, 01:26 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: We also shouldn't forget that the Mavs improved after the KP trade.
This. I can't believe we're still having to talk about this.
They were MISERABLE while he was here. They weren't a good team, and it was obviously his fault. I don't really care if it could've gone down a different way (I don't think it could have) because it went down the way it did. It was obvious since the freaking bubble that it wasn't going to work with him, and they traded him a full year after they should have. The whole ordeal was wheel-spinning of the highest order and the primary reason they find themselves having to soft rebuild now.
It was CLEARLY a mistake to bring Porzingis here. A very, very costly one. Getting him out of here was not the mistake. That was wisdom.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Woj- Indiana expected to probe Siakam| OKC not expected to trade - mvossman - 01-05-2024
(01-05-2024, 01:30 PM)surfpuckmd Wrote: Just because KP accepted responsibility doesn't mean it was all his fault. When things don't work out, there are often several people who deserve some blame. Maybe Luka just isn't mature enough to declare some personal responsibility for the failure.
I mean, I'm sure Luka didn't handle it perfectly, but the bottom line is that he should have been a spot up shooter, pick and pop, pick and roll guy and he didn't want to do that here. He didn't want to set picks and instead wanted to ISO. That wasn't necessary to play with Luka, it was necessary for him to be most effective, a concept that both Rick and Kidd tried to convince him of. He is doing in Boston what we needed him to do here. I'm not sure how its Luka's fault that KP didn't want to set picks.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24:Hardy removes Mavs from social media| Pascal to be traded - omahen - 01-05-2024
(01-05-2024, 12:16 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: From Jake Fischer
“Other teams mentioned, such as Dallas and Philadelphia, don’t appear as viable destinations at this juncture, although Toronto officials have suggested to inquiring front offices as many as 10 teams hold legitimate interest in Siakam, sources said.”
“Dallas has long rebuffed inquiries for Josh Green, sources said, fresh off a 3-year, $41 million extension that begins in 2024-25.”
The Sacramento Kings have made Harrison Barnes, Kevin Huerter and Davion Mitchell available for trade, per @JakeLFischer
“Of late, Atlanta has informed numerous teams the only untouchable players on the Hawks’ roster are Young and rising third-year forward Jalen Johnson, sources said.”
Thanks. Also from Fisher in same piece:
league personnel no longer considering the Hawks as a prominent potential landing spot for Toronto’s other trade-deadline darling, Pascal Siakam
But the chatter among NBA executives surrounding Siakam’s potential landing spots has now centered on Indiana, Sacramento and Detroit.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24:Hardy removes Mavs from social media| Pascal to be traded - omahen - 01-05-2024
Detroit certainly needs a PF, but good luck trying to resign Siakam in the summer and he certainly doesn't fit their timeline. This move makes little sense for them.
Sacramento can offer picks, but Mitchel has been pretty much meh (he is also already 25), Barnes is a meh forward and Huerter doesn't have a good season.
Same as Philly, Indy will also have max cap space in the summer. So why offer a lottery rookie if they can just sign Siakam, if he wants to be there? And risk losing that rookie for nothing, if they trade for Siakam and he than walks.
It looks like this one will drag until TDL, unless Siakam makes it pretty clear, where he wants to be.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24:Hardy removes Mavs from social media| Pascal to be traded - RoyTarpleysGhost - 01-05-2024
(01-05-2024, 01:25 PM)surfpuckmd Wrote: Yes. I would definitely want Kuminga. I would offer up our unprotected 2027 1st to get him. If he goes in a Siakam deal though, I'm pretty sure the Raptors would plan to keep him for themselves. He has the potential to be exactly what we need next to Lively.
Yea, I think I’d rather discuss Kuminga than Siakam.
Not sure we have what GS wants/how to get in there as a third team if they want Siakam.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24:Hardy removes Mavs from social media| Pascal to be traded - omahen - 01-05-2024
(01-05-2024, 02:59 PM)RoyTarpleysGhost Wrote: Yea, I think I’d rather discuss Kuminga than Siakam.
Not sure we have what GS wants/how to get in there as a third team if they want Siakam.
I think the only theoretic option would be if Toronto for whatever reason wouldn't want Kuminga but prefered pick from Mavs.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24:Hardy removes Mavs from social media| Pascal to be traded - surfpuckmd - 01-05-2024
(01-05-2024, 02:59 PM)RoyTarpleysGhost Wrote: Yea, I think I’d rather discuss Kuminga than Siakam.
Not sure we have what GS wants/how to get in there as a third team if they want Siakam.
Me too. i think that's exactly the guy I would target. I'm not sure what would be enough. 2027 unprotected, 2028 pick swap and Jaden Hardy? Is that enough?