(12-26-2023, 12:57 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: If that's all it would cost (it isn't, that's Lakers propaganda, as per usual) I'd happily give up Hardy, Green and '27 for either of them. Happily. And I'm the "don't trade '27" guy. But, that kind of talent upgrade is hard to turn your back on.

(12-27-2023, 04:28 AM)MAVS-SLO Wrote: Great post.

Does anyone know the rules? Is there any chance that we extend DJJ and don't make any moves until the summer? If he continues likes this, he will probably be worth MLE.

We aren't contenders this year, so priority should be to extend DJJ and try to make some trade in the summer, while we will have more picks to offer and Holmes and Kleber ase expiring will be worth much more.

(12-27-2023, 05:14 AM)F Gump Wrote: There is no way to extend (ie, lengthen the contract of) DJJ to avoid free agency. The Mavs only opportunity will be resign him as a FA.

Right now their commitments project to have them around the tax line, which only leaves room for the taxpayer MLE. That starts at 5.25M and seems way too little.

If they can trim enough 2024-25 payroll between now and July, they can offer the big MLE of 13M, which seems like it should be enough.

I would think the preferred way to do so would be a deadline trade of Holmes for an expiring contract. That would cost a pick, but so long as it isn't a first-rounder, it seems worth it assuming that could create enough room for DJJ.

I would prefer the expiring contract coming back for Holmes be a player who might also have some oncourt utility, such as Olynyk to be the backup center that's needed (he would be a stretch 5 type). His trade price should not be high. And depending on his salary price in the summer, maybe KO could be resigned too? The addition of Lindsey to the front office gives me some optimism that they could pull off something like this.

(12-27-2023, 08:12 AM)omahen Wrote: I think number one task for Mavs is to set themselves for a trade for that missing 3-D wing, third best player on a team. Unlikely to happen at TDL, but should be number one goal for the summer. This means most of the thoughts should go towards Mavs positioning themselves to get that player in the summer. Assets and expiring contracts are crucial and Holmes will be expiring. Him and THJ along with young players and picks are likely necessary for that deal to happen. We worry about DJJ afterwards, imho.

(12-27-2023, 10:00 AM)Winter Wrote: Unless you have someone specifically in mind, the idea of waiting for the "missing 3-D wing" seems mythical to me. We talk about that every season as if there will be several to choose from. There never are. We currently have 2-3 adequate players that now fit that bill, and I would argue that interior defense and rim protection really trumps all our other needs at present.  And the availability of that type of player never seems out of reach. Like you, I don't think Drummond or Olynyk fit the team's profile all that well, but I think a defensive, rebounding big man is absolutely needed. I also think there may be more options for that than any wing player who is capable of being a difference maker.

(12-26-2023, 09:43 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: Alec Burks is a basketball terrorist. I swear to god he was trying to lose them the game. He pulled up this wild 3 with 30 seconds left that had zero chance to go in. It effectively iced the Pistons and ruined any chance of a comeback. Just when you thought it couldn't get worse he just threw the ball 10 feet into the stands on a kickout pass to really make sure the game was over. Why he was in the game I have no clue.

(12-27-2023, 10:00 AM)Winter Wrote: Unless you have someone specifically in mind, the idea of waiting for the "missing 3-D wing" seems mythical to me. We talk about that every season as if there will be several to choose from. There never are. We currently have 2-3 adequate players that now fit that bill, and I would argue that interior defense and rim protection really trumps all our other needs at present.  And the availability of that type of player never seems out of reach. Like you, I don't think Drummond or Olynyk fit the team's profile all that well, but I think a defensive, rebounding big man is absolutely needed. I also think there may be more options for that than any wing player who is capable of being a difference maker.

(12-27-2023, 10:42 AM)omahen Wrote: I think Mavs need that 3-D guy. I don't agree they are not around or available. Good franchises get them and become contenders, the others don't. Guys like Grant, Siakam, OG and perhaps some more might become available. Get one of those while keeping the core and this team gets serious.

(12-27-2023, 08:12 AM)omahen Wrote: I don't understand Olynik and Drummond ideas. Both are bad defenders and Mavs don't need a back-up center for offense. They need someone to be able to play defense. And in any case, I just don't believe Olynik, Drummond or any other back-up center makes us a contender.

I am not a fan of spending assets to dump salary and getting a back-up center. Especially not while Mavs have three back-up centers on multi-year deals and we haven't seen one of them play much. There will be time and perhaps better opportunities to lower salary (if needed) in the summer, no need to hurry.

DJJ has been great and his good play is necessary for this season result. But, is he really indispensable long term or just a stop gap solution in the starting unit until Mavs finally find that right player? If his role in the future is (up to) 20 mpg bench player, is he still so necessary to resign that we would be paying assets to give him full MLE? I would hate to lose him, but I am not sure I would move the mountains to keep him.

Perhaps lets look another way. Curry is not guaranteed for next season and might be a luxury we don't really need, especially if THJ stays on the team. In this light he is basically expiring salary and could also be used by any contender in need of bench shooting. Is there a team that could trade their back-up center for Curry? Bamba, Goga are players that could be considered. Another option would be Maxi. He played like trash but perhaps has more value as a stretch big than Holmes. Third option could be Green

I think number one task for Mavs is to set themselves for a trade for that missing 3-D wing, third best player on a team. Unlikely to happen at TDL, but should be number one goal for the summer. This means most of the thoughts should go towards Mavs positioning themselves to get that player in the summer. Assets and expiring contracts are crucial and Holmes will be expiring. Him and THJ along with young players and picks are likely necessary for that deal to happen. We worry about DJJ afterwards, imho.

(12-27-2023, 08:12 AM)omahen Wrote: DJJ has been great and his good play is necessary for this season result. But, is he really indispensable long term or just a stop gap solution in the starting unit until Mavs finally find that right player? If his role in the future is (up to) 20 mpg bench player, is he still so necessary to resign that we would be paying assets to give him full MLE? I would hate to lose him, but I am not sure I would move the mountains to keep him.

(12-27-2023, 10:42 AM)omahen Wrote: I don't understand Olynik and Drummond ideas. Both are bad defenders and Mavs don't need a back-up center for offense. They need someone to be able to play defense. And in any case, I just don't believe Olynik, Drummond or any other back-up center makes us a contender.

I think Mavs need that 3-D guy. I don't agree they are not around or available. Good franchises get them and become contenders, the others don't. Guys like Grant, Siakam, OG and perhaps some more might become available. Get one of those while keeping the core and this team gets serious.

(12-27-2023, 07:19 AM)Jason Terry Wrote: Several contenders are interested in Olynyk. Rather than trading a couple 2nds i’d move Hardy

Holmes and Hardy for Olynyk

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Another would be Hardy for Drummond and a 2nd. Get the pick in to use later to move Holmes

(12-27-2023, 03:23 PM)F Gump Wrote: 1 Re Olynyk, you are ignoring the situation. The point is that he has an expiring contract, and the Mavs could really use one who can be acquired for Holmes plus something small. Agree he's not the perfect center but tell me where you are getting a perfect center to be your backup, without paying an arm and a leg. Also, with Maxi so iffy all the time, having a stretch center has value. That's my view.

2 Re 3-and-D's, they need more than 1, but they have already been starting to stockpile guys who can help, perhaps. That's who they have in Green, DWill, Exum, and DJJ.

They tend to cost about the MLE. You ignore the reality that the Mavs MUST do something to turn somebody (preferably Holmes) into an expiring contract, if they are going to maintain or improve their 3-and-D corps in the summer. I offered my idea. What's yours?

The guys you mention aren't 3-and-D, but rather are high-profile starters. Their acquisition cost would be significant. But you would still want to add a 3-and-D at a small cost, if you can land that guy.

I think DJJ works, and has needed skills in other areas too. His ability to hit 3's is vastly more of a factor in Dallas than in his past, and hopefully will continue to improve. (In 2 years in CHI, he only had one game where he made more than 2 3's. In a 1/3 of a season in Dallas, he already has had 7 games with 3-or-more 3's.) .

(12-27-2023, 11:24 PM)omahen Wrote: 1. I don't get the back-up center, if there is no cheap solution. No need to rush trading Holmes and spending assets for expiring at TDL, especially not for a player who is not really a fit. They can always dump Holmes in the summer, if that is needed and will cost same (perhaps even less) as getting someone like Olynik. But there are also other ways to lower salaries, if needed. Or other guys that could be traded.

2. ... first priority is to get that guy. Than solve DJJ situation, if possible. 

3. " But if you have a better one, you still can't get him without opening up MLE room (which they lack)" DJJ and Exum are actual examples you can get such players for less than MLE  

(12-28-2023, 02:07 AM)F Gump Wrote: 1 We don't have any reason to think that Holmes can be moved into someone's cap space in the summer for just a 2nd, when almost everyone is fighting to increase their cap room. We just saw that this past summer, with McGee. And Holmes. They tried hard, and came up empty.

Using a 2nd is cheap. Not sure a needed salary dump of that size can ever get cheaper than a 2nd. (Not sure I follow your preference for trying to find someone else to move who is not Holmes. Huh? Why? That's certainly INCREASING the cost of such a move.)

2 You've tried to make this about DJJ vs Siakam (or the like), and it's not. Keeping the talent you already have does not preclude trying for a trade. And while looking for the trade (that may take years to find, let's be real), why let talent that fits the team walk away because you don't have MLE money? The name of the game is to keep building your talent base. Siakam may never be available. The price may take primarily player assets, not picks. Keep maximizing on multiple fronts.

3 If Olynyk doesn't excite you, that's fine, except then come up with a better expiring-contract idea for Holmes, rather than just the complaint that this one isn't ideal. You know that finding another DJJ/Exum out there next summer for cheap, sure that's great, except that's not a real answer because it's so unlikely. So what's your better idea that's cheaper than using Holmes and a 2nd for Olynyk? Offer Holmes and a swap of 2nds?! I don't object to someone better.

4 One other point that I think is relevant, which is that with the Hard Cap, it's crucial to get multiple useful rotation players locked up for the MLE or less. And in a situation like this, it looks to me like DJJ is that caliber of player and would be able to be kept at the MLE-or-below range. So to me, you don't want to let that window of opportunity be wasted.