(12-10-2023, 09:54 AM)HoosierDaddyKid Wrote: Two-way and THJ is hyperbole to be paired  in the same sentence.

(12-10-2023, 01:11 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: Dalton Trigg (@dalton_trigg)
NBA Rumor: Dallas Mavs' Trade Interest in Atlanta Hawks' Clint Capela Has 'Faded' https://www.si.com/nba/mavericks/trade-rumors/nba-rumor-dallas-mavs-trade-interest-atlanta-hawks-clint-capela-faded via @IsaacBourne11

(12-10-2023, 01:21 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: You think? 

I'm honestly not sure Lively isn't a better player right now, let alone after a year of experience.

(12-11-2023, 10:31 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Are we sure we are getting better than this by waiting until this summer?

(12-11-2023, 10:45 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: Lots of good points above, especially the point about the 4 needing to take priority over the backup 5 (which I believe) and then the people claiming that not loving any option at the 4 (which is me, too). The irony is real.
 

2) I’m fine with a combination of Grant Williams, DJJ, O-Max and even a little Kleber when size is needed for now. I think Williams will grow into this role, maybe not to an ideal level, but better than the past few weeks. I think DJJ is a weapon there, and I feel the best option MIGHT be to wait for O-Max to be ready.

We just don’t KNOW what this team is really going to need yet. There’s so much developing youth here at the same time right now, and we haven’t even seen them in a playoff series yet.

(12-11-2023, 10:53 AM)omahen Wrote: I am pretty sure Collins blocks a lot (if not all) options to really make a contender level move in the summer. 

The only way I would consider Collins deal would be if a third team would be involved and paying assets to Utah. So a third team in need of a shooter gets THJ and sends expiring contract(s) and assets to Utah for Collins to Dallas.

(12-11-2023, 10:31 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: But, he's shooting very similarly to THJ from 3 at .383 (vs 384 for THJ) and .442 from the corner (THJ is .366 from the corner).  Collins is creating 40% of his made 2's this season and is .714 at the rim.  THJ creates 35% of his 2's and is .506 at the rim.  I don't agree the offense would suffer from a THJ/Collins swap.



I'll exempt Siakam and Markkanen as they aren't attainable in an in-season deal.  But, when you compare Collins to PJ, Olynyk, Grant, Isaac, Kuzma and PWill, which of them has a better combination of rebounding and 3 point shooting and block rate?

(12-11-2023, 11:03 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Thanks for acknowledging the irony.  I would submit that if GWill was on a different team right now, he'd be just as quickly written off as Collins and the rest.  Maybe a backup 4/3, but I suspect you and everyone else here would say "I'm not giving up assets for Boston's backup (undersized) four".  I'm also not a fan of GWill starting next to a skinny center like Lively.  Nico's word "force" is a good one and GWill isn't that.

To the last point, the question is patience versus losing a year of Luka/Kyrie's limited window.  No team really looks dominant right now.  I suspect Dallas will do something to go for it if the opportunity arises.

(12-11-2023, 10:53 AM)omahen Wrote: Offensively, he had huge problems in Atlanta with Capella (basically same guy as Lively) playing next to him. His role was getting more and more limited. Atlanta paid to let him walk because they were not able to construct a contender with him next to a weak defensive guard, good defensive center and two wings. I am far from optimistic things would look much different in Dallas.

(12-11-2023, 12:14 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: This is what we have to acknowledge, yes!

Offensively, the system is BUILT around Lively and 1-5 pick-and-roll. That means the MOST IMPORTANT skill any 4 has to have is three-point shooting off of the catch. That is simply not a point that's requires debate. It's a fact. 

Now, is Williams shooting well enough? If he does start to shoot well enough, do the other parts of his game, such as defense, rebounding, attacking closeouts, moving the ball, whatever, are those things that require upgrade? These are all good questions, but the player MUST be a catch and shoot player, first and foremost. The expensive players with sexy names just aren't that, I'm sorry. It's a job for an under the radar, MLE type, LIKE WILLIAMS. They identified and acquired one, now it's time to hope he grows into this larger role. I, for one, can be patient enough to find out.

(12-11-2023, 12:40 PM)omahen Wrote: I think 3pt shooting is great to have, but perhaps could be worked around if there are other offensive skills. Like Siakam, for example. One thing to note - this guy would be no.3 when both Luka and Kyrie play, but No.2 when any of them is on the bench, which is still some 20+ minutes, as they are stacked. Williams is not nearly capable of being that, he is just a spot up shooter. Lets never forget, this teams problem is defense. Offense is elite and has always been. I don't think one a bit weaker shooter would just create them huge problems offensively. My objection against Collins is 95 % his defense, only 5 % his offense. 

I have always stated that "I am" looking for a DJJ replacement in the starting unit, not GW one. Problem is, there are just not any guys available that would imho make sense. Smart or Murray (Atlanta) would be ideal, but neither is nearly likely to become available. Good wings that might be available are "unfortunately" mostly PF. But, a better PF could make it easier for Green to be inserted in the starting line-up.

(12-11-2023, 11:23 AM)omahen Wrote: I am very sure that the third best player on a team Mavs need is not a perfect player. He will have deficiencies, otherwise he would not be a third best player. It is also very possible, that he will be overpaid in terms of salary and/or assets needed to get him. Based on this, every guy brought up will have fans and opponents on the board.

My criteria for this guy:
- by far most important, he has to be an elite defender. This is the only hope to make defense in a team with Luka and Kyrie at least average. Collins, Markkanen, Olynik, PJ Washington and Kuzma doesn't meet this criteria, imho.
- he has to be capable offensively, more than just a spot up shooter. He will have deficiencies and a good coach will have to make everything work. Getting him enough touches (THJ shows there is room and shots for a third offensive guy) and make overall offense work

Based on this the only guys from Dans list that could meet the criteria listed would be Grant or Siakam. Williams is just meh, imho. Same for Isaac (huge gamble he can return to his 3rd best guy potential he showed before years of injuries hit him). OG is the only one left that would qualify and could meet criteria at this point.

Repeating again - Siakam and OG pretty much control where they want to be. Real contenders make deals like that happen. Fake ones are just watching those guys sign with real contenders.