(11-28-2023, 09:56 AM)Mike lorenzo Wrote: If this was a transition season...why the hell hire and extend KI...if next year we will have more picks to use,maybe some young guys take a step etc...but also KI is a year older,Maxi will be (even) more unplayable, add a year to players in decline Powell/Curry and the result is +- being at the same point going around in circles.. We have a historically good backcourt, you would have to dig hard to find a more talented one (if there is one) they don't need to accumulate to get a 3 star, only solid complementary players, who can defend themselves... Use unprotected FRP 27, yes It's a real help (if a Caruso type) get a big backer and see where it takes us...this summer we will have 2 more available, we just need good role players (as an example the trades from White to Boston/Gordon to Demver for an FRP )..Caruso is a no brainer, we need him and he is a game changer..don't worry about a little overpayment... By the way, what do you think of Curry for Achiuwa? Achiuwa has been pretty bad, but he is in a terrible role...and he is a very good PF defender, he can rebound...it would be a marginal change, but an interesting bet

(11-28-2023, 10:55 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: Any three team trade ideas where Dallas gets Detroit's Bojan and Hardaway winds up somewhere else?  Mavs supposedly had interest this offseason in Bojan but the price was probably too high.    I think Detroit can find a better deal for him unless Dallas can make it a three way.  While Bojan is not a strong defender he does have more size while also being a good shooter.    Detroit is a mess and Bojan can opt out this offseason.  I think there is a strong chance he is moved this year.  While it may not be a long term fix it does even us out a little more.

(11-28-2023, 11:40 AM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: I think the Hardaway/Hardy conversation is kind of missing the point.  It's not about if Hardy is as good as Hardaway today from either a bball standpoint or asset value (he's clearly not) but more so is he good enough to make Hardaway an asset we can cash in on via trade without seeing a major drop in overall team production from that position.  With that in mind, it doesn't make sense to pair them together in a trade package.  You either move Hardaway or attach Hardy to Maxi/Holmes, attaching Hardy to Hardaway would put us in a tough spot post trade.  You want to have one of those guys around putting up contested shots because no one else on this roster feels comfortable doing it (looking at you Josh).

The thing that always drove me crazy about the national media narrative around last year's struggles post trade was that it was all focused on acquiring Kyrie and not focused on the fact that we lost DFS and had NOTHING to replace his role with.  It was a team struggling on defense that traded it's best defender and replaced it with....well Luka kind of and and Green at times.  That's when things really became a layup line for the opposition.  Bringing in Grant Williams has helped us a little bit but we still need to find a way to replicate Maxi's defense from the 2022 run whether it be from a healthy Maxi or someone we acquire via trade. 

In the case of this year, if we end up moving Hardaway and cashing in while he's playing pretty well, at least we won't be trying to fit a round peg into a square hole trying to replace his role because Hardy at least looks the part.  His production most likely wouldn't be equal to Hardaway in that hypothetical but at least he wouldn't look out of place.

(11-28-2023, 11:40 AM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: I think the Hardaway/Hardy conversation is kind of missing the point.  It's not about if Hardy is as good as Hardaway today from either a bball standpoint or asset value (he's clearly not) but more so is he good enough to make Hardaway an asset we can cash in on via trade without seeing a major drop in overall team production from that position.  With that in mind, it doesn't make sense to pair them together in a trade package.  You either move Hardaway or attach Hardy to Maxi/Holmes, attaching Hardy to Hardaway would put us in a tough spot post trade.  You want to have one of those guys around putting up contested shots because no one else on this roster feels comfortable doing it (looking at you Josh).

The thing that always drove me crazy about the national media narrative around last year's struggles post trade was that it was all focused on acquiring Kyrie and not focused on the fact that we lost DFS and had NOTHING to replace his role with.  It was a team struggling on defense that traded it's best defender and replaced it with....well Luka kind of and and Green at times.  That's when things really became a layup line for the opposition.  Bringing in Grant Williams has helped us a little bit but we still need to find a way to replicate Maxi's defense from the 2022 run whether it be from a healthy Maxi or someone we acquire via trade. 

In the case of this year, if we end up moving Hardaway and cashing in while he's playing pretty well, at least we won't be trying to fit a round peg into a square hole trying to replace his role because Hardy at least looks the part.  His production most likely wouldn't be equal to Hardaway in that hypothetical but at least he wouldn't look out of place.

(11-28-2023, 11:52 AM)surfpuckmd Wrote: This is exactly right.  We should choose between the two because we just don't have enough minutes for them both to thrive here  As Hardy's value has likely tanked due to performance and lack of opportunity, THJ is the obvious piece to trade.  I'd be fine with Hardy performing slightly worse than THJ because he has the potential to be a better player eventually.  

I believe trading THJ for another big man is the obvious move here.  Orlando would be a good target as they have three really good centers.  They also really need shooting and another veteran.  That team is adjusting to being really good all of a sudden.  Another vet to go along with Joe Ingles would help that bench.  Wendell Carter Jr. would fit our needs well.  I think THJ and the 2027 first for WCJ would improve both teams.  It would give us a 6'10 270 lb big who rebounds, plays defense and can hit 3s.  You like wingspan?  How's 7'5"?  Perfect fit.

(11-28-2023, 12:21 PM)mvossman Wrote: I like WCJ, but that is too much for him, and don't want to spend more assets on a center.

(11-28-2023, 12:55 PM)surfpuckmd Wrote: I think he'd be worth it.  

The paradigm in the league has changed and bigger teams are succeeding.  The Timberwolves have 3 centers among their top 6 players and lead the West.  Denver has a huge frontcourt and just won the championship.  Even Houston has succeeded with two bigs starting.

Teams that were supposed to be small-ball contenders like the Warriors and Lakers have struggled.

Unfortunately, our current lineup is quite small.  Especially when Lively isn't playing. 

Carter Jr. fixes that while still being able to space the four.  We could play occasional two big lineups and would be tough to defend.  He'd fix our rebounding issues and give us a fighting chance against Jokic and the other giant centers in the league.  

Bitadze would also be a good get and definitely cheaper but he doesn't space the floor the same way.  WCJ is a better player and better fit.

(11-28-2023, 01:14 PM)Mike lorenzo Wrote: Houston seems like a good landing spot for Tim...Udoka has mixed young players and veterans very well...just look at the step forward they have taken...they are in the fight for the Play-offs, they lack a reliable 6 man scorer (even I would say that their starting guard J.Green) is the weakest link on the team..Oladipo+Minimum contract, they match the money..would they send the worst of their FRP 25 (he has 2 and 3 seconds) to THJ+SRP?.. This would leave us with FRP protected + Mavs 27 unprotected, Oladipo expiration + (Hardy/Curry) as assets to negotiate.. I think that is already OG/Siakam land

(11-28-2023, 01:14 PM)mvossman Wrote: I feel like calling him a floor spacer may be pushing it.  He takes one 3 a game with a career average of 32%.  There has been some improvement there, but not enough to where I think we could count on him playing the Maxi role.  Certainly not enough to where I would be comfortable gambling a first.

It doesn't really matter because why would Orlando be sending out their best center in a trade to acquire a pick when they are 12-5?  I don't see them doing that kind of a move.

(11-28-2023, 02:20 PM)surfpuckmd Wrote: Carter Jr. shot 3.9 threes per game last season and hit at 35.6 percent.  That's pretty good for a big and that was with Markelle Fultz and Cole Anthony as his point guards.  Those numbers are both better than Maxi last season.  It doesn't really matter that he didn't shoot threes in his first few years.

You're probably right though that he's not available.  Orlando has been winning without him though and Bitadze has been awesome.  Mo Wagner is a good backup.  They have Banchero and Isaac at the 4 and they don't really have minutes for all 5.   I'd gladly take Bitadze off their hands instead.  They do need a vet shooter at guard.  THJ would work well next to Jalen Suggs in the starting lineup.  They need a shooter.

(11-28-2023, 02:20 PM)surfpuckmd Wrote: Carter Jr. shot 3.9 threes per game last season and hit at 35.6 percent.  That's pretty good for a big and that was with Markelle Fultz and Cole Anthony as his point guards.  Those numbers are both better than Maxi last season.  It doesn't really matter that he didn't shoot threes in his first few years.

You're probably right though that he's not available.  Orlando has been winning without him though and Bitadze has been awesome.  Mo Wagner is a good backup.  They have Banchero and Isaac at the 4 and they don't really have minutes for all 5.   I'd gladly take Bitadze off their hands instead.  They do need a vet shooter at guard.  THJ would work well next to Jalen Suggs in the starting lineup.  They need a shooter.

(11-28-2023, 09:56 AM)Mike lorenzo Wrote: If this was a transition season...why the hell hire and extend KI...if next year we will have more picks to use,maybe some young guys take a step etc...but also KI is a year older,Maxi will be (even) more unplayable, add a year to players in decline Powell/Curry and the result is +- being at the same point going around in circles.. We have a historically good backcourt, you would have to dig hard to find a more talented one (if there is one) they don't need to accumulate to get a 3 star, only solid complementary players, who can defend themselves... Use unprotected FRP 27, yes It's a real help (if a Caruso type) get a big backer and see where it takes us...this summer we will have 2 more available, we just need good role players (as an example the trades from White to Boston/Gordon to Demver for an FRP )..Caruso is a no brainer, we need him and he is a game changer..don't worry about a little overpayment... By the way, what do you think of Curry for Achiuwa? Achiuwa has been pretty bad, but he is in a terrible role...and he is a very good PF defender, he can rebound...it would be a marginal change, but an interesting bet

(11-28-2023, 02:39 PM)youzigizag Wrote: Per RealGM Orlando board...

All trades proposed want a shooter in return...and they are using Fultz, Harris, WCJ and assets in those trades.   I dont see any trades with Isaac involved...so the fans must want to keep him.   Im sure he is gettable for the right player...Im just saying they arent using him in trades.

If that means anything to you at all.  My main point is that they are using WCJ in trade discussions.

(11-28-2023, 05:06 PM)surfpuckmd Wrote: Seems like there may be a deal there that could benefit both teams.  They have too many centers and we have too many shooting guards.  I think we can solve each others problems.

(11-30-2023, 12:56 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: Honestly why aren't we gunning hard for Andrew Wiggins?

He's currently getting eaten alive by the Warriors media, and he's having a career low year. 12ppg, pretty horrible metrics across the board. BUT he is theoretically a 2 way wing with size. We've seen just how good he can be next to 2 all-stars. He's only 28.

I think he's a prime buy low candidate on top of the fact the Warriors are facing a horrific luxury tax. So they may be motivated in breaking Wiggins into smaller pieces.

Wiggs for THJ+Powell