(05-08-2023, 02:30 PM)Luka77 Wrote: Again, I ask what does Ayton do at an elite leve to be paid Max money?  Certainly not defend the rim or switch out on perimeter players. His offense is decent but consists of rim running with a good mid range jumper.  Is that what the Mavs need on the offensive end?  I don't think his offense is necessary esp. with Luka and Kyrie on the floor.  And is he willing to accept a role of strictly rim running and improved defensive effort.  I have my serious doubts and with that role he isnt worth his contract.

Moreover, Ayton has some serious maturity issues.  Hes a player who demands the Max money without giving Max effort or work ethic.  He would rather play video games away into the night rather then spending time in the gym to work on his craft and take care of his body.  There are reports of him getting as little as two hours of sleep at night while doing so. Thats why he probably gives little energy when out on the floor.  And is that someone you want to bring into the locker room on Max contract? NO PASS

There is a reason PHX was hesitant to give him a Max contract.  He has no clue what it takes to be great at an NBA level. 

Waiting out those contracts to expire in two years or trading them at the deadline starting this season or next would be better than being hamstrung with Ayton on a three year Max.

Just last off season Laker fans were in panic with the Westbrook contract and what did their GM do?  Take the first offer he could?  No he waited and scowered the league until the right deal came around at the deadline.

(05-08-2023, 02:03 PM)omahen Wrote: I think move down from 10 to 15 is a fair value for Capella, I am just affraid Atlanta would want even less salary back. Is there a team that would take Bertans for #15 and send us something back? That would give biggest saving for Atlanta. How about:

BKN: #15, Bertans, McGee
Dal: #22, O'Neale, Capella
Atl: #10

Mavs get two ok starters for the price of one pick and still stay in the draft. Perhaps BKN is eating a bit too much salary for sending a FRP back.

(05-08-2023, 03:53 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Couldn’t Atl buyout Bertans so all the salary is gone when they need it if that is the issue?

As far as your revised trade, I have a weird obsession in wanting ONeal, so I’m game for that too. There is a possibility that Lively is there at 22 as well. I do suspect taking on McGee on top of Bertans is a bit overkill.

(05-08-2023, 04:50 PM)omahen Wrote: Bertans is owed full next year and partial season after that. I think the partial is 5 mil. So over 20 mil together. 

Yeah, McGee is over the top. Besides, salaries don't work for BKN, I was focused too much on Dallas side of the deal. Revise it a bit, Bullock to Atlanta with O'Neale and Mills to Dallas I think it works (BKN just takes Bertans).

(05-08-2023, 06:01 PM)Jym Wrote: Still can't wrap my head around us taking on Bertans without getting a pick or young talent

(05-08-2023, 07:53 PM)WildArkieBoy Wrote: shoe salesman learning curve?

(05-08-2023, 02:43 PM)omahen Wrote: Ayton is not worth the max, but that is exactly the reason why he might be available. I said I have concerns about his commitment, but I can't know if that is possible to correct by changing scenery. But Mavs seem to think so, if that is worth anything.

Ayton will not be primary offensive option. But it is important that he could punish smaller players with a very simple reason. It will require the opponent to have a center in and Luka feasts against centers in the PnR. In case of Gobert (for example), who has very limited moves, the opponent can simply put in a smaller line-up, switch everything while launching threes on the other side of the court. Exposed in playoffs everytime.

Phoenix was hesitant to give him his max. But they did gave it to him. Keeping the same team for Mavs is not an option. Something has to be done. I don't understand your conclusion. Obviously we have no knowledge if Ayton is the first or last deal that comes along.

(05-08-2023, 11:28 PM)Luka77 Wrote: PHX was hesitant to give him the max and only did so not to lose a potential assest for nothing.  Unlike the Mavs, they saw his work ethic, skills development and lockerroom presence every day for four years and didn't think he was worth the max.  That should tell the Mavs something.

(05-09-2023, 04:38 AM)omahen Wrote: Mavs have like 50 mil of bad salaries on their roster. Replacing that with 30 mil of bad salary is an actual improvement.

(05-09-2023, 08:25 PM)F Gump Wrote: No one believes that bad-for-bad is really the equation here, and you probably don't either. And that reality is the obstacle.

PHX will expect to get assets, not your bad contracts and bad players. They hope someone will think, "He's better than our guy" and be willing to - as you say - pursue him for being available, while ignoring the financial ramifications and the fact he's not anywhere close to a $32M value.

The Mavs need to be looking for paths to good players on good contracts, rather than using their few assets to get more bad contracts. With a hard cap in essence, they really can't afford to pile on even more bloated salary if they ever want to get enough talent. And if they can't see an avenue in that direction, they might as well kiss Luka bye-bye.

(05-09-2023, 08:25 PM)F Gump Wrote: No one believes that bad-for-bad is really the equation here, and you probably don't either. And that reality is the obstacle.

PHX will expect to get assets, not your bad contracts and bad players. They hope someone will think, "He's better than our guy" and be willing to - as you say - pursue him for being available, while ignoring the financial ramifications and the fact he's not anywhere close to a $32M value.

The Mavs need to be looking for paths to good players on good contracts, rather than using their few assets to get more bad contracts. With a hard cap in essence, they really can't afford to pile on even more bloated salary if they ever want to get enough talent. And if they can't see an avenue in that direction, they might as well kiss Luka bye-bye.

(05-09-2023, 04:38 AM)omahen Wrote: We are just circling around same thing I admit, he is not worth the max. Never said otherwise. But, if he would be, Mavs would have no way to get him, as their assets are really limited.  

(05-10-2023, 08:05 AM)omahen Wrote: Analysing Mavs salary that could be put in a trade:
1. Bertans: vet min player paid 17 mil. Semi expiring. No contender will want him. The only possible recipient is a team, that doesn't care much about the results next season. San Antonio, Utah, probably Charlotte, perhaps Washington (who knows what direction new GM will take) and perhaps Indiana. Some teams like Portland or Toronto might decide for a bit of a tear down, but nothing certain at this point. Focusing on the first mentioned teams:
- I doubt San Antonio is moving Vassel, Sochan or Johnson for #10. Nothing else on that team could fill Mavs needs
- Charlotte: I am not convinced any of their young centers is capable of jumping in a starting role on the contender, nothing else interesting there
- Utah basically sold what had value or is available. Nothing really there
- Washington: Avdija and Gafford are interesting, but I am not sure I would be willing to pay #10 for them. Nothing else is interesting
- Indiana: Turner is definitely a good target. If he is available for #10, I would be all for it. Not sure I would want to pay more as there are other holes to fill.
2. THJ: shooter capable of playing decent enough defense, but not much else to his game. Supposed to be a positive locker room guy. There are several teams that need shooting:
- Atlanta: Capella could be available, but difficult to imagine THJ would work next to Trae
- Cleveland: don't have assets or good players to offer unless you are enamored with Okoro
- Houston: Would they give up cap space and someone like Garuba? I am affraid they have higher aspirations than THJ with that cap space. Not interested in any of their contracts (only Porter over 10 million anyway)
- New Orleans: I don't think Valanciunas would be a fit for Mavs and none of their available youngsters is worth a #10. Valanciunas, Herb Jones and #14 for THJ and #10? Seems too good for Mavs.
3. Bullock: contenders could see value in him despite bad season. But, I don't see them giving up starter level players for him. As he is expiring, his salary is useful also for teams that don't care about results
4. Maxi: bad season and 3 more years left on his deal. Same thing as Bullock with contenders. Less interesting for tanking teams due to length of his contract

(05-10-2023, 08:58 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: No one wants our crap and attaching draft capital to crap only diminishes the value of the draft capital.  Non-contenders might take expiring or semi-expiring money to get #10, but who does a non-contender have that we want and they don’t?  

I really think the path to Ayton or Capela or any good player on a contender is your idea about dealing 10 for 16/28.  You pay 28 to SA to take Bertans and lower the needed incoming salary for Phoenix or Atlanta or whoever.