(05-08-2023, 07:34 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: As far as framework of a deal for Wiseman (or Duren) and Stewart?

3 team trade this scenario assumes Orl is ready to move off of Isaac:

Orl in: THJ/Green
Det in: McGee/Maxi/3 SRPs from Orl
Dal in: Isaac/Stewart/Wiseman/25 Den FRP from Orl

If Dal gets Duren instead of Wiseman swap the first to Det and 3 SRPs to Dal.

(05-08-2023, 08:29 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: I haven't done a deep dive but if Detroit got Wemby, I would really dig into if I would give up #10 (if kept) for Duren.  A lot will be who is available at 10, but this would be an interesting discussion to have.  Dallas would still have to manufacturer a PF and possibly another wing with little remaining assets but I think in time Duren may be a real nice fit for what we are missing.

(05-08-2023, 10:54 AM)HoosierDaddyKid Wrote: Interesting.  Even if they got Wemby or not, I highly doubt they will give up Duren. The kid is just 19 years old and he already is a stud. You may be able to pry away Stewart, Bagley, or Wiseman, but I think Duren is off-limits. He fits in with what they're trying to do.

(05-08-2023, 07:46 AM)omahen Wrote: I don't see Orlando giving up a FRP and 3 SRP for THJ/Green. Green had an encouraging season, but is still not established. They would also need to pay him next season. Isaac is guranteed only 7 mil for next season.

Detroit gave 5 SRP for Wiseman. I don't see them trading Wiseman and Stewart for the awful McGee contract and Maxi, who had a really bad season and is also owed a lot of money, while receiving just 3 SRP.

(05-08-2023, 11:35 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: That’s why I made it their Den pick in 25. It’ll be projected to go in the late 20’s. So give them that pick. They also have a ton of SRPs from Den and Mil and the like teams. Picks that won’t hinder their own season’s rankings. Heck, give Det all the picks.

My thought was Green should be worth at least a late first and each team can make up their own reasoning for the seconds. Orl would say it was 1 to get off the Isaac contract and 2 to get THJ (or vise versa), and the team that gets them would say it was for the disparity in value.

I think it works just fine.

(05-08-2023, 11:46 AM)omahen Wrote: You gave the pick to Dallas. If it is going to Detroit, than I guess it is more of a fair value for them. But from Dallas perspective, this means THJ and Green for two iffy centers. No guarantee either is actually a good playoff level center. And even while Mavs would perhaps fill the center position, they make a huge hole on the wing. Bullock would be basically the only wing left.

Also, I don't think Orlando is paying 1 FRP and 3 SRP for THJ/Green. They have plenty of decent but not great young players as it is. If I am them, I am saving my assets for a big move.

(05-08-2023, 11:54 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: They have Garry Harris as their only SG on the team. I still think it works and said from the beginning it was a “framework”. You recently chided FG about being creative.

(05-08-2023, 12:04 PM)omahen Wrote: What has creative to do with anything here? I didn't say you are not creative. I question the value. I wouldn't do THJ+Green for Wiseman and Stewart. I am not convinced they are solution at center while giving up most of the wings. As Detroit, I am not sure I want two crappy contracts for a late first and 3 SRP. As Orlando, I am sceptical about THJ and Green valuation.

If I would be enamored with Wiseman and/or Stewart, I would be thinking about something like sending #10 to Detroit and receive player plus draft capital back - either 3-team deal for a pick in this draft or protected future pick(s).

(05-08-2023, 12:11 PM)omahen Wrote: As for Isaac, the most likely scenario is he will be waived. I would consider trying to get him for vet min while promising him minutes, that could help him secure his next contract. So lets say 1 pick for center and Isaac as a big wing. If he doesn't work, Mavs still have one pick for TDL trade for a better wing. If he would work, Mavs could probably offer him full MLE next season.

(05-08-2023, 12:51 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Maybe true. This deal takes away the need to waive him and have extra dead salary on their books for a few years. They currently can handle it, unless they make some deal that puts them into win now mode (which they are at the point where they could start thinking about that).

(05-08-2023, 01:12 PM)omahen Wrote: Isaac is guaranteed for just 7 mil next year

(05-08-2023, 12:24 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Like you said to FG, get creative with it.

(05-08-2023, 01:22 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: I get that, it’s still a stretch waive to get to that $7M is it not?

(05-08-2023, 01:22 PM)omahen Wrote: I literally proposed how I think a fair value is in the exact same post you were replying to. So now you can poo poo on my idea

(05-08-2023, 01:40 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Why would I? There is probably a path to that idea. I myself don’t like giving up the #10 for Stewart, but it all depends on the exact picks we’re taking back. In all honesty I’d prefer giving the unprotected 27 to the #10 (and get more than just Stewart back, just less than the #10 would bring). That way we can still get cheap talent to fill holes on the current roster with the #10.

Separate thought: I’ve also played around with a trade down with Atl #10 for #15 and swap THJ or Bertans (their choice) for Capela. For them, they need to pay Murray, Bey and Okongwu in the offseason after this upcoming one. Bertans gets them more money to make that less harsh. THJ gives them some money savings and on court value.

We take Lively at 15 and he learns under Capela for a couple years until Capela starts slowing down. At that point Lively starts and Capela comes off the bench. Center position solidified for many years to come.

(05-08-2023, 01:26 PM)omahen Wrote: Not necessarily. They can eat the 7 mil in one year, or stretch it over three. Unless they find his contract usable in the trade, I think it makes most sense for them to just eat those 7 mil this year and be done with it, keeping books clean for the future. Or even if he is traded, I would assume it as very likely the buyer will waive him. I am not sure a contender is willing to take his 17 mil.

(05-08-2023, 05:34 AM)omahen Wrote: Regarding Ayton, I think the takes he gets played off the floor are a bit overblown. He can protect the pain and he can switch in PnR. On the offensive side he does have some moves. You can't really compare him to Gobert, whos only move is PnR and is not really able to punish smaller defenders when the defense just switches. This is the limitation that makes Gobert nothing special in playoffs. I think Ayton is better. The only concern I have is his commitment, his energy. Is that just because of the Phoenix situation, because he is clearly not happy there for a couple of years now, or is this just who he is. Difficult to answer that, but Mavs seem to think there is more to him.

Mavs have 40 mil of salaries (Bertans, McGee and THJ) next season that don't really fit on this team. Ayton is cheaper than that. Mavs salary problem are those bad salaries, not Ayton being overpaid to an extent. Mavs also have Maxi and Bullock that are sort of ok to have, but nothing special you couldn't approximately replace at vet min. The idea of Kleber is nice, but he is always injured. Bullock proved really ineffective last season. Since most here would not like to trade Green and Hardy, the only valuable assets Mavs have are the two picks.

True, one could SW Bertans and get to MLE. But, which hole are we filling with that? Is there a credible starter Mavs could get for it? I am not sure. They might either cost more or are even less productive than Ayton. We are not getting a star for MLE. Mavs need two good starters to possible become a contender now. Are we sure #10 and MLE can provide that? I think it is more no than yes.

Based on all this, I wouldn't be opposed to Ayton trade if it doesn't involve Green or Hardy. The good negotiator might be able to get something more than just Ayton with that #10 pick, probably involving third team. So Ayton+something more+rMLE vs MLE+#10. I like the first part more.