(08-26-2023, 12:48 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Since it is a trade and not an FA signing, I'm not that worried about it.  Dinwiddie was just as much of a starter at Herro has been at the point we traded for him and put him in a bench role.  Like Dinwiddie, Herro already has his money and Irving may be gone by the time he's UFA again.

If we presume we are trying to upgrade the roster with a 30-minute type player, there are 3 roles that make sense to me.

1. Starting Center - The issue here is we probably drafted Lively to take this spot in a year or two or three.

2. Wing who can push Green or GWill to the bench - Is this what we hope OMax will become?

3. Third guard with shooting, creation and distribution skills - probably what we hope Hardy will become.

We won't all agree on which we need more.  It is somewhat a product of which kid we think is furthest away or has the lowest ceiling.  It is also a product of who is available and at what price.  I can say that I think OG or J. Allen is the guy we need, but at what price.  I happen to think Herro would fit role #3 very nicely and I know with near certainty that he's pretty available right now.

(08-26-2023, 02:13 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: Acquiring Ayton accomplishes three things:
1) Gets THJ out of Hardy's way as the third creator.
2) Gets not only the question mark of Holmes out of the way, but also ensures that Powell essentially won't play.
3) Makes it unnecessary to play Maxi at the five except as break glass in emergency.

(08-26-2023, 12:54 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I think part of what I'm getting stuck on is not knowing exactly how Hardy fits into the long term of this thing. There's a world in which he's similar to but better than Herro a year from now.

(08-26-2023, 03:19 PM)HAguiar95 Wrote: I'd just like if we had a stop-gap center for Luka to play with untill Lively is ready (Luka have not played with a starting caliber C his entire carreer here). Holmes or Hardaway to match salaries (maybe for Valanciunas or Nurkic that aren't positive value we don't need to add a 1st rounder? We still have a couple of seconds to play with) . We already have our closing lineup - Luka, Kyrie and our three 3nD players (Green/Williams/Kleber) and we also have some good role players to help untill our rookies are ready (Curry-Hardy, DJJ-Prosper, Powell-Lively).

(08-26-2023, 04:19 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: I think they have to find a way to bring in Capela, Allen, Ayton, or Claxton. I think Capela is a no-go unless we see the Holmes-2nds trade on the 6th, and as a Mavs fan I would be furious if Hardy, Green, or the 27 was included in such a deal unless another juicy asset was coming back to us. My sense is that, unless the Hawks really want Holmes, we would have already seen Capela on roster here if it were going to happen. I think Ayton likewise is only acceptable without HG27, due to the distressed value of his albatross contract, and I don't think the Suns do that (and KL might leave the board then anyway). I think it would take two of HG27 to obtain Claxton, and yes, I do that, but I'm not sure the Mavs do. I would only give one of HG27 for Allen, but I'm not sure the Cavs do that. 

(08-26-2023, 10:30 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Last season isn't necessarily predictive, but Hardy actually played more without either of our stars (427 minutes) than he did with one or both of them (281 minutes).  60% of his minutes were played without either superstar.  Even if we want to add in the 113 minutes with Dinwiddie, 44% of Hardy's minutes were played without an NBA PG.  Who knows if that will continue as our depth is much better now than before.  

It appears to me we tried to do a couple of things this summer.  1. Add youth while also protecting them from being over exposed by adding corresponding low-dollar vets who actually got minutes last season.  Curry, DJJ, Exum and Powell mean you don't have to rely on Hardy, OMax and Lively.  You can give them developmental minutes as you don't have a ton invested in the vets.  You can even sit the vets if one of the kids happens to pop.  But, come playoff time, your fortunes won't be determined by the babies.

I think the other thing was 2. Give us options at the four (GWill, OMax, DJJ, Morris in addition to Maxi).  If you look at the top Kyrie lineups with Luka, they are really small.  Generally, Kyrie, Luka a center and two players from Green, THJ and Bullock.  Even when Luka sat, we saw lineups with a center and three guys the size of THJ or smaller.  Out of the top 20 Kyrie lineups last season, there were only 52 minutes where you had Maxi and a big on the floor.  I've seen some national pundits pan the Kyrie Experiment as a failure based on macro data (the record after the trade), but at the micro data level you discover we just didn't have the horses to guard anyone in the front-court.

The sample sizes in Irving's time here are just tiny.  We had lineups that had O-ratings over 120.  We also had a few lineups with good defensive stats.  In general, the best lineups included Green and THJ and the worst lineups included Bullock.  Subbing Williams for Bullock and giving Kyrie and Luka a little time to figure things out could make a substantial difference.

One of my goals if I were constructing the team, would be to allow myself more minutes of Luka and Kyrie together if I wanted.  The O was fantastic when they were together and we did some things to help the D this summer.  I really like the potential of Exum and Hardy on the floor together as a means to this end.  But you can certainly put Curry in the Hardy slot if it isn't working and you can certainly keep one of the stars on the floor with Hardy if Exum isn't working.  THJ, Green and GWill are going to get their minutes...probably about 84 a game.  Luka and Kyrie are going to split about 78 and a center is going to play 42-48.  That leaves about 30-36 minutes a game for Hardy, Exum, DJJ, Maxi, Curry and the Rookies to fight over.  Injuries/Rest will impact that.  

That is a lot of good players fighting over scraps, which is why some kind of 2-for-1 trade makes so much sense.  THJ lineups with Luka and Irving were generally very good, but there are ways to spend that money that bring more dimensions to the game than just shooting.  Until Lillard is finally dealt, I'm still keeping a Tyler Herro trade in the back of my mind.  The idea is to always have two creators from among Luka, Kyrie, Herro on the floor at all times.  Add in a center (Powell, Maxi, Lively and Small-Ball) and a bunch of wings from among Green, GWill, Exum, Curry, DJJ and OMax and the roster makes more sense than it does currently.  The outgoing in the deal I have in mind is THJ, Hardy and Holmes.  Holmes is necessary because I'm making Miami take Nurkic as part of getting Lillard.

(08-26-2023, 12:48 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Since it is a trade and not an FA signing, I'm not that worried about it.  Dinwiddie was just as much of a starter at Herro has been at the point we traded for him and put him in a bench role.  Like Dinwiddie, Herro already has his money and Irving may be gone by the time he's UFA again.

If we presume we are trying to upgrade the roster with a 30-minute type player, there are 3 roles that make sense to me.

1. Starting Center - The issue here is we probably drafted Lively to take this spot in a year or two or three.

2. Wing who can push Green or GWill to the bench - Is this what we hope OMax will become?

3. Third guard with shooting, creation and distribution skills - probably what we hope Hardy will become.

We won't all agree on which we need more.  It is somewhat a product of which kid we think is furthest away or has the lowest ceiling.  It is also a product of who is available and at what price.  I can say that I think OG or J. Allen is the guy we need, but at what price.  I happen to think Herro would fit role #3 very nicely and I know with near certainty that he's pretty available right now.

(08-26-2023, 03:19 PM)HAguiar95 Wrote: I'd just like if we had a stop-gap center for Luka to play with untill Lively is ready (Luka have not played with a starting caliber C his entire carreer here). Holmes or Hardaway to match salaries (maybe for Valanciunas or Nurkic that aren't positive value we don't need to add a 1st rounder? We still have a couple of seconds to play with) . We already have our closing lineup - Luka, Kyrie and our three 3nD players (Green/Williams/Kleber) and we also have some good role players to help untill our rookies are ready (Curry-Hardy, DJJ-Prosper, Powell-Lively).

A good scenario would be a Holmes + 2 2nds for Valanciunas. Takes Pels out of tax and give tham some ammo (they have a lot of 1st but very few 2nds).

Luka/Exum
Irving/Hardy/Curry
Green/Hardaway/DJJ
Williams/Kleber/Prosper
Valanciunas/Powell/Lively

(08-26-2023, 10:18 PM)surfpuckmd Wrote: I'm a Pelicans fan as well.  Valanciunas isn't the answer for the Mavericks.  He declined significantly this past season.  He can't guard the perimeter nor defend at the rim.  He is an excellent defensive rebounder which would help us but he's otherwise very poor at defense.  He's strong and physical and can score but I don't think our starting lineup needs what he has to offer on offense.

I think Nurkic would be a better fit but I've proposed that idea before and everyone seemed to hate it.  I think Portland would love to get off his contract and would accept a Richaun Holmes and JaVale McGee package for him.  Nurkic has 3-years left on his contract so we'd be stuck with that for an extra year.  I think he's still a pretty good defensive player though and also a strong rebounder.  He'd be a problem for us on offense though.  I think he and Powell would make a good center platoon for the regular season.  I also like that we could get him without trading any assets-  we might even be able to get a couple 2nd-rounders out the deal.

That's the deal I would make personally.  McGee and Holmes for Nurkic.  Portland is tanking anyway and trading Nurkic only improves their tank.

(08-27-2023, 12:04 AM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: McGee can't be traded now that he's S/W.  Nurkic isn't a bad idea.   Valanciunas for a year is a great move.  He's super efficient on offense and and you said is a good rebounder,  We NEED rebounding.

No one is going to take Holmes in a trade for anything of value.  Dude is worth a negative #24 pick, just to take his contract.  At best he's worth a vet min, putting his contract at -$10m.  

THJ for Valanciunas straight up works.  IMO, that's equal value, but I think NOP is looking to shed salary, not add to it.  Thoughts?

(08-27-2023, 12:04 AM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: McGee can't be traded now that he's S/W.  Nurkic isn't a bad idea.   Valanciunas for a year is a great move.  He's super efficient on offense and and you said is a good rebounder,  We NEED rebounding.

No one is going to take Holmes in a trade for anything of value.  Dude is worth a negative #24 pick, just to take his contract.  At best he's worth a vet min, putting his contract at -$10m.  

THJ for Valanciunas straight up works.  IMO, that's equal value, but I think NOP is looking to shed salary, not add to it.  Thoughts?

(08-26-2023, 10:30 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: . . . a center is going to play 42-48.  That leaves about 30-36 minutes a game for Hardy, Exum, DJJ, Maxi, Curry and the Rookies . . . .

(08-26-2023, 02:13 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: I just want to say that Dan's posts today are brilliant and beautiful.

I think the best cure for the minutes logjam is THJ/Holmes/2nds for Ayton. I don't like Ayton. I don't like his contract. But because the Mavs have done so well at acquiring decent supporting players at reasonable contracts this offseason - 2 rookies, GW, Exum, Curry, DJJ - an albatross third contract isn't as painful.

Acquiring Ayton accomplishes three things:
1) Gets THJ out of Hardy's way as the third creator.
2) Gets not only the question mark of Holmes out of the way, but also ensures that Powell essentially won't play.
3) Makes it unnecessary to play Maxi at the five except as break glass in emergency.

Kyrie-Luka-Exum
Luka-Hardy-Curry-Exum
Green-OMax-GW
GW-OMax-Maxi-DJJ
Ayton-Lively

(08-26-2023, 02:13 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: I just want to say that Dan's posts today are brilliant and beautiful.

I think the best cure for the minutes logjam is THJ/Holmes/2nds for Ayton. I don't like Ayton. I don't like his contract. But because the Mavs have done so well at acquiring decent supporting players at reasonable contracts this offseason - 2 rookies, GW, Exum, Curry, DJJ - an albatross third contract isn't as painful.

Acquiring Ayton accomplishes three things:
1) Gets THJ out of Hardy's way as the third creator.
2) Gets not only the question mark of Holmes out of the way, but also ensures that Powell essentially won't play.
3) Makes it unnecessary to play Maxi at the five except as break glass in emergency.

Kyrie-Luka-Exum
Luka-Hardy-Curry-Exum
Green-OMax-GW
GW-OMax-Maxi-DJJ
Ayton-Lively

(08-28-2023, 11:08 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: At this point, I'm going to like any post containing a trade idea that doesn't result in DeSuckdre Ayton playing for the Mavericks.

(08-28-2023, 12:18 PM)Jmaciscool Wrote: Mavs incoming: Boban
Mavs outgoing: 27 unprotected first round pick

Per the above conditionsi expect you to like this post KL!