(08-13-2023, 02:20 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: I think the decline question is right up there with will Luka come to camp in shape? line of thinking. Even if Luka comes in out of shape, he’s still going to be great. Even if we get a declined Capela, he’ll still be the absolute best option at starting C for this team and it’s not particularly close. So no, I don’t think there is much evidence for the opposite conclusion.

Giving it a year could stunt our young addition’s playoff growth, which is what Luka and Kyrie (and the rest of the team for that matter) care about. Don’t punt on the play that very well could get us into field goal range to win the game when your team has been on a roll.

Edit: Please explain to me how you came to the conclusion that we will have only 1 pick to trade next year? If we trade 27, next year we will have 2 picks, not 1 (with Capela, what do we NEED that 3 picks will get us that 2 picks won’t?). Getting Capela starts the contention window now and doesn’t interrupt that long term window, it’s all upside.

(08-13-2023, 11:55 AM)29 mvossman Wrote: The evidence for the opposite conclusion is less about Capela potential decline and more about the many what ifs adding up to a very high unlikelihood this team will be able to contend next year, with or without Capela and regardless of whether he is on the decline.

If we protect that pick at all (using a 28 second) then 29 is off the table as well.  Sending out an unprotected first for Capela is a significant overpay in my estimation.

The bottom line is you and I disagree on how close this team is to contention this coming season and how much Capela would impact that.  I would not mind getting Capela, but I don't want to overpay or too negatively impact our future options to do it.

(08-13-2023, 02:20 PM)omahen Wrote: We are basically just circling this same Capela discussion on and on, repeating same things. Great indication that nothing is going on

I agree Capela is not worth full unprotected 27, but I would pull the trigger if something else comes back. I don't see much point in saving that pick as we likely shouldn't be after players that cost 3 picks anyway, due to CBA limitations. I think Capela will not lose much value in a season and a half where Mavs could trade him if Lively is ready. Capela alone probably doesn't make us a contender, but he sure brings us closer, if other things work out. I am very affraid about this season if Mavs think Powell is the best center they have. We have tons of materials to know he is not a starting level center.

Lets not forget the "famous" Stein quote. Mavs have not done enough and they know it.

But, I think there is only one thing to "look forward to" - how will they finish the McGee story. Will they again pay assets to try to erase their mistake or will they be more patient, waiting for a trade where his contract would be useful.

(08-13-2023, 02:20 PM)omahen Wrote: We are basically just circling this same Capela discussion on and on, repeating same things. Great indication that nothing is going on

I agree Capela is not worth full unprotected 27, but I would pull the trigger if something else comes back. I don't see much point in saving that pick as we likely shouldn't be after players that cost 3 picks anyway, due to CBA limitations. I think Capela will not lose much value in a season and a half where Mavs could trade him if Lively is ready. Capela alone probably doesn't make us a contender, but he sure brings us closer, if other things work out. I am very affraid about this season if Mavs think Powell is the best center they have. We have tons of materials to know he is not a starting level center.

Lets not forget the "famous" Stein quote. Mavs have not done enough and they know it.

But, I think there is only one thing to "look forward to" - how will they finish the McGee story. Will they again pay assets to try to erase their mistake or will they be more patient, waiting for a trade where his contract would be useful.

(08-13-2023, 02:54 PM)mvossman Wrote: Agree with most of this.  I desperately hope that Holmes has enough to handle the starting role.  I'm also intrigued by heavy minutes of small ball (although that will make a bad rebounding team even worse).  

As for saving the pick, there is nothing that says it needs to be put in a package with the other two picks.  We have years to decide what to do with that pick.  We may end up wanting to use it (likely as part of a package) to replace Kyrie when the time comes. 

As for McGee, I think at this point they are either going to hold onto him or if they think he is a locker room issue, waive him.

(08-13-2023, 03:08 PM)omahen Wrote: Totally agree on McGee. I doubt they will be paying someone to take his contract. After that, it is what you said.

As for 2027, circling all the teams, I just can't find anything that seems realistic for me. Other than Capela, really. I would love it if we could get AJ Griffin or Johnson back for the pick. But I am affraid Atlanta is more interested in young guys than picks. I would rather give up 2027 than Green in a deal, since trading Green just opens new hole. 

Would OKC consider trading Dort (I would still want a bit back, I don't think he is worth full 2027)? It wouldn't solve our center situation, but it never hurts to have good wings. Although, this brought me to an idea:

OKC: THJ, 2027 pick (could use some more shooting in their line-up)
Atl: Green, Holmes (young player and back-up center - I think Holmes makes more sense than McGee because of contract), asset from OKC
Dal: Dort, Capela

Neither Dort nor Capela are perfect, but they are better than what Mavs have at the moment. I am not really sure Green has it in him to become full time credible starter. Would love to, but it has been three years and still huge question marks. Dort is a better defender and not affraid to shoot it or drive to the basket. Could his efficiency improve in Dallas?

(08-13-2023, 11:55 AM)mvossman Wrote: If we protect that pick at all (using a 28 second) then 29 is off the table as well.  Sending out an unprotected first for Capela is a significant overpay in my estimation.

(08-13-2023, 04:09 PM)mvossman Wrote: I guess I am higher on Green than you are.  I think he needs to be a little more aggressive on offense, but I don't see "huge question marks".  Dort is definitely more aggressive at the expense of being much less efficient.  I'm not sure he is that much better a player than Green.  That being said, I could live with this if they pulled that trigger.

(08-13-2023, 07:46 PM)HoosierDaddyKid Wrote: I'm with Omahen on this. I keep hearing all this Green hype, but I don't see it. Dort is the better player at this point, even on D.  He's improved his 3 pt shot. No more leaving him open. Green has the chops to be a very good 3&D guy. But this is Green's make-or-break year for me. He must show some aggression on offense and quit deferring all the time. That would make the team so much better when they load up on Kyrie and Luka.

(08-13-2023, 06:34 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Huh? You just said protect using the 28 second, how is 29 off the table? Also, in that scenario you would have the 27 pick to trade at the draft. You’re confusing me.

(08-14-2023, 04:43 AM)RGP1981 Wrote: Is there a way for the Mavericks to be the 3rd team in a James Harden trade to LAC? It would be nice for the Mavs FO to look for ways to get in on that since LAC and the 76ers have a few players who would fit good alongside Luka (or alongside Luka and Kyrie), such as... Norman Powell, De'Anthony Melton and Terance Mann.

(08-13-2023, 07:46 PM)HoosierDaddyKid Wrote: I'm with Omahen on this. I keep hearing all this Green hype, but I don't see it. Dort is the better player at this point, even on D.  He's improved his 3 pt shot. No more leaving him open. Green has the chops to be a very good 3&D guy. But this is Green's make-or-break year for me. He must show some aggression on offense and quit deferring all the time. That would make the team so much better when they load up on Kyrie and Luka.

(08-14-2023, 11:46 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: This is a big year for Green.   He is a good rotational player but can he make the next jump to being a good starter or end of game player?  I hope they resign him regardless, but that answer may determine how strongly he is on our future plans.  I was a little surprised that if Thybulle was not matched that he would have been the starting 3 to begin the year, per some reports.    While Thybulle may fill the need of defender better, I think you can make a strong case Josh is the better player.

As far as fit goes, I think Green fits much better in a fast paced offense with a lot of passing and movement.   That is a little tricky when playing with Luka.  But I don’t think being in the DFS role is the best use of Green.   

Cato said something a few weeks ago that I agree with.  Green may be the best athlete on the team but he really is not an explosive get the ball and create off the dribble one on one.   For whatever reason, he lacks that burst.  Everything else about him screams athlete…except for that.    But with Luka, Kyrie and maybe eventually Jaden, he won’t be asked to do this much.  But he is a guy who needs touches.

(08-13-2023, 07:54 PM)Jym Wrote: Ehh the argument for Dort would have to be defense which I admit is a level or 2 above Green
But I don't love Dort's shot. 39% overall and 33% from 3 last year which is right in line with his numbers for his first 4 years

(08-14-2023, 12:17 PM)MarkAguirreWrathofGod Wrote: It isn’t that Josh lacks burst, it’s that he needs to learn to change speeds. Some of that is developing better handles. But it’s mostly the game slowing down for him, which it seemed to at times last year. I would like to see him receive more dribble handoffs  and act as the screener. Overall, I’d like to see more variation in our offense wherein it’s small screening for small. We were too predictable last season. Josh as screener can roll, pop out for 3, drive or pass. Think of Maxi who can’t dribble drive and doesn’t have much floor vision. Grant Williams isn’t very vertical. Josh has great court vision and hops. 

The other thing that players learn with time is defensive tendencies and how to find their “spots.” I’d like us to run set plays getting Green to his most efficient spots and have him work variations on that theme until he has a “go-to move.” This may take another couple years, as guys like Luka who can intuit how to manipulate the defender naturally are rare.

(08-14-2023, 01:15 PM)HoosierDaddyKid Wrote: That all may be true. But hypothetically, swap out Green for Dort and see if the Mavs are better defensively. Dort's 3 pt shot as well as Green's are a wash IMO. What was Green's 3 pt %  for last season?  Did he shoot over 40%?  It may be higher because he doesn't take a lot of them. Dort probably shoots a higher volume, because he's asked to take them whether he makes them or not. Green is a reluctant shooter. I'm not trashing Green. He has the chops to be very good. But that depends on him. This is his year to make the leap.