Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein-Ingram Trade Inevitable| LAL Want Lebron Back On Any Terms - Printable Version +- MavsBoard (https://www.mavsboard.com) +-- Forum: Boards (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=1) +--- Forum: Dallas Mavericks and the NBA (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=2) +--- Thread: Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein-Ingram Trade Inevitable| LAL Want Lebron Back On Any Terms (/showthread.php?tid=2444) Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
227
228
229
230
231
232
233
234
235
236
237
238
239
240
241
242
243
244
245
246
247
248
249
250
251
252
253
254
255
256
257
258
259
260
261
262
263
264
265
266
267
268
269
270
271
272
273
274
275
276
277
278
279
280
281
282
283
284
285
286
287
288
289
290
291
292
293
294
295
296
297
298
299
300
301
302
303
304
305
306
307
308
309
310
311
312
313
314
315
316
317
318
319
320
321
322
323
324
325
326
327
328
329
330
331
332
333
334
335
336
337
338
339
340
341
342
343
344
345
346
347
348
349
350
351
352
353
354
355
356
357
358
359
360
361
362
363
364
365
366
367
368
369
370
371
372
373
374
375
376
377
378
379
380
381
382
383
384
385
386
387
388
389
390
391
392
393
394
395
396
397
398
399
400
401
402
403
404
405
406
407
408
409
410
411
412
413
414
415
416
417
418
419
420
421
422
423
424
425
426
427
428
429
430
431
432
433
434
435
436
437
438
439
440
441
442
443
444
445
446
447
448
449
450
451
452
453
454
455
456
457
458
459
460
461
462
463
464
465
466
467
468
469
470
471
472
473
474
475
476
477
478
479
480
481
482
483
484
485
486
487
488
489
490
491
492
493
494
495
496
497
498
499
500
501
502
503
504
505
506
507
508
509
510
511
512
513
514
515
516
517
518
519
520
521
522
523
524
525
526
527
528
529
530
531
532
533
534
535
536
537
538
539
540
541
542
|
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Jaylen Brown agrees on 5yr/304mil deal|Capela on block? - omahen - 07-31-2023 (07-31-2023, 03:30 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: I still ask the question... would Capela be on the floor the for the last 5 minutes in a playoff game? For most games, yes. In some situations perhaps not. In any case, he is not the all star Mavs couldn't win without. If there was a tough match-up for him, we would have other options (Maxi). (07-31-2023, 03:37 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: IMO, Nurk is a much better defender than you suggest. I'm not saying he's Mutombo, but he's certainly better than Powell and McGee. I think he could be gotten for little and would be an upgrade. Don't let perfection be the enemy of better. I don't agree, when taking into consideration the Mavs roster. I think Powell works much better as defender next to Luka than Nurk would. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Jaylen Brown agrees on 5yr/304mil deal|Capela on block? - Ghost of Podkolzin - 07-31-2023 (07-31-2023, 03:36 PM)omahen Wrote: Since they brought the non shooting Westbrook, non shooting Capela certainly became an issue. Bringing in a better shooter (who was not a center), didn't solve their problems at all and all ended miserably. Pointing out, that Capela was not the problem. Also, lets not forget which team Houston was losing against in the playoffs - GSW in their prime with Durant. Again, we're talking about why HOU made the move at the time, not what we can Monday morning quarterback analysis years later. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Jaylen Brown agrees on 5yr/304mil deal|Capela on block? - dirkfansince1998 - 07-31-2023 (07-31-2023, 03:29 PM)mvossman Wrote: I'm surprised you like Nurk. He is not really a P&R center and he is more likely to get played off the court defensively than any of the centers we have talked about. Thought you were bigger on mobile centers. Still not interested in overpaid dinosaurs. Just brought him up to point out the difference in perception when it comes to Capela and other bigs. If Nurkic is a negative or neutral asset there is no way that the Mavs should offer more than a couple of 2nds for Capela. But if the Mavs are still all in on Kidd´s 2020 Lakers pipe dream I would prefer someone like Nurkic over Capela. Most likely way cheaper. Not a pick and roll finisher but a good screener and passer. Capable of making plays out of the short roll. Also showed improved 3-point range. And as a big fan of +/- based metrics. Despite his obvious short comings when he has to defend in space he ranks among the best defensive bigs over the last 3-5 seasons. If the options are Green/Hardy and/or the 2027st for Capela (not sure if that is the case) or a couple of 2nds for Nurkic it´s not even a question for me. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Jaylen Brown agrees on 5yr/304mil deal|Capela on block? - omahen - 07-31-2023 (07-31-2023, 03:40 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: Again, we're talking about why HOU made the move at the time, not what we can Monday morning quarterback analysis years later. They made the move, because they were desperate. Their problem was Westbrook, not Capella. But they had to try everything to make Westbrook work. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Jaylen Brown agrees on 5yr/304mil deal|Capela on block? - Ghost of Podkolzin - 07-31-2023 (07-31-2023, 03:43 PM)omahen Wrote: They made the move, because they were desperate. Their problem was Westbrook, not Capella. But they had to try everything to make Westbrook work. Nope. Capela's hands of stone was the reason... "Rockets franchise star James Harden had proven to be successful with having a center who could set screens, roll to the basket, and catch lobs over the top. The last part has proven to have extreme value and importance, as it impacted the ways in which opposing teams defended Harden." https://spacecityscoop.com/2020/10/17/houston-rockets-failed-trade-clint-capela/ (07-31-2023, 03:42 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Still not interested in overpaid dinosaurs. Just brought him up to point out the difference in perception when it comes to Capela and other bigs. If Nurkic is a negative or neutral asset there is no way that the Mavs should offer more than a couple of 2nds for Capela. This. A thousand times this. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Jaylen Brown agrees on 5yr/304mil deal|Capela on block? - omahen - 07-31-2023 (07-31-2023, 03:42 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Still not interested in overpaid dinosaurs. Just brought him up to point out the difference in perception when it comes to Capela and other bigs. If Nurkic is a negative or neutral asset there is no way that the Mavs should offer more than a couple of 2nds for Capela. Not saying Nurk is a bad center. But he is a bad center for what Mavs need. Portland had two weak defensive star guards, just like Dallas has. Portland always had bad defense. I really don't care about any advanced stats related to Nurk, because they don't tell what is obvious - Mavs will not have good defense with him. No chance of that. Luka needs a center that can switch PnR when opponents attack him, because Luka can't fight through screens. Iztok Franko had awesome analysis about that in Luka-KP days. Capella might have a down year. Perhaps he is declining already at 29. But prime Capella was a totally different kind of center than Nurk. The only thing they have in common is, that neither can really shoot. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Jaylen Brown agrees on 5yr/304mil deal|Capela on block? - dirkfansince1998 - 07-31-2023 Not like the Rockets small ball experiment didn´t work. For a couple of month they were unstoppable but at some point Tucker and RoCo broke down. I guess that´s where a bigger body for the regular season would have helped them. That´s also how I view the Mavs situation. When it matters it is going to be Williams/Kleber. Not Capela, Nurkic or any other traditional big that we can come up with. Mavs don´t need a 20m per year starting big. They need someone that can play enough minutes to reduce Maxi´s load. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Jaylen Brown agrees on 5yr/304mil deal|Capela on block? - omahen - 07-31-2023 (07-31-2023, 03:46 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: Nope. This article literally doesn't say anything about Capella being the problem. It just says they traded him for RoCo and were looking to add a cheap replacement. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Jaylen Brown agrees on 5yr/304mil deal|Capela on block? - dirkfansince1998 - 07-31-2023 (07-31-2023, 03:52 PM)omahen Wrote: Not saying Nurk is a bad center. But he is a bad center for what Mavs need. Portland had two weak defensive star guards, just like Dallas has. Portland always had bad defense. I really don't care about any advanced stats related to Nurk, because they don't tell what is obvious - Mavs will not have good defense with him. No chance of that. Luka needs a center that can switch PnR when opponents attack him, because Luka can't fight through screens. Iztok Franko had awesome analysis about that in Luka-KP days. Sorry but it´s impossible to have this discussion if you are simply dismissing the stats. Capela has the same short comings. He had his best defensive years next to legit wing defenders in Houston. Using your logic Capela can never work next to Luka or Kyrie because he didn´t work next to Trae. Hawks defense was terrible. Was that Capela´s fault? Makes no sense to blame him just like it makes no sense to blame Nurkic for Portland´s team defense. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Jaylen Brown agrees on 5yr/304mil deal|Capela on block? - omahen - 07-31-2023 (07-31-2023, 03:54 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Not like the Rockets small ball experiment didn´t work. For a couple of month they were unstoppable but at some point Tucker and RoCo broke down. I guess that´s where a bigger body for the regular season would have helped them. This was a bubble season. RoCo and Tucker had plenty of time to rest and prepare for playoffs. Houston had a short little stretch immediately after the trade where they had something like 11-6 record. But everything was already bad in the bubble. Finished regular season with 5-5, barely beat "tanking" OKC with their former teammate CP3 and than went out against Lakers with a gentlemans sweep. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Jaylen Brown agrees on 5yr/304mil deal|Capela on block? - Ghost of Podkolzin - 07-31-2023 (07-31-2023, 03:52 PM)omahen Wrote: Not saying Nurk is a bad center. But he is a bad center for what Mavs need. Portland had two weak defensive star guards, just like Dallas has. Portland always had bad defense. I really don't care about any advanced stats related to Nurk, because they don't tell what is obvious - Mavs will not have good defense with him. No chance of that. Luka needs a center that can switch PnR when opponents attack him, because Luka can't fight through screens. Iztok Franko had awesome analysis about that in Luka-KP days. Wait, are you really saying that Capela can switch on a PnR????? RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Jaylen Brown agrees on 5yr/304mil deal|Capela on block? - Ghost of Podkolzin - 07-31-2023 (07-31-2023, 04:02 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Sorry but it´s impossible to have this discussion if you are simply dismissing the stats. Capela has the same short comings. He had his best defensive years next to legit wing defenders in Houston. Using your logic Capela can never work next to Luka or Kyrie because he didn´t work next to Trae. Hawks defense was terrible. Was that Capela´s fault? Makes no sense to blame him just like it makes no sense to blame Nurkic for Portland´s team defense. and to add to that... Murray is a much better defender than Luka or Kyrie. IMO, those wanting Capela are ignoring all of his obvious shortcomings, focusing on years ago. He's in decline. Then, any other alternative suggested like Nurk, they use perfection as the measuring stick. Nurk is a better solution than Capela. Nurk is a better solution than Powell/McGee. The perfect solution would be either Zubac or J.Allen. (07-31-2023, 04:03 PM)omahen Wrote: This was a bubble season. RoCo and Tucker had plenty of time to rest and prepare for playoffs. Houston had a short little stretch immediately after the trade where they had something like 11-6 record. But everything was already bad in the bubble. Finished regular season with 5-5, barely beat "tanking" OKC with their former teammate CP3 and than went out against Lakers with a gentlemans sweep. Please answer... would Capela be on the floor the final 5 minutes of a Mavs playoff game? RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Jaylen Brown agrees on 5yr/304mil deal|Capela on block? - omahen - 07-31-2023 (07-31-2023, 04:02 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Sorry but it´s impossible to have this discussion if you are simply dismissing the stats. Capela has the same short comings. He had his best defensive years next to legit wing defenders in Houston. Using your logic Capela can never work next to Luka or Kyrie because he didn´t work next to Trae. Hawks defense was terrible. Was that Capela´s fault? Makes no sense to blame him just like it makes no sense to blame Nurkic for Portland´s team defense. I am dismissing the stats in this case, because: a) with all the respect, but advanced defensive all in one stats are crap. Nurk is supposed to be 11th best defender in the league according to RAPM. b) we are speaking about totally different players. Capella can switch onto smaller players, at least he could in his Houston days. No way Nurkic can do that, never could. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Jaylen Brown agrees on 5yr/304mil deal|Capela on block? - dirkfansince1998 - 07-31-2023 (07-31-2023, 04:26 PM)omahen Wrote: I am dismissing the stats in this case, because: RAPM isn´t all in one crap. Regression of lineup data with selected priors to account for outliers. Why is Nurkic ranked as high. Maybe because him being on the floor was the difference between worst defense in the league and slightly below average during his stint with the Blazers. We can come up with all kinds of interpretations for stats (what I would expect in a response...explanation why his +/- numbers are as good when he isn´t as good as the numbers suggest) but it´s not possible to dismiss factual reality. It´s funny how this works. I could continue to come up with more stats. Point out tracking data that paints the same picture. For example DFG data that not only has Nurkic as the more active defender (more contested shots) but also with a better DFG%. But it wouldn´t matter. If you still think that Capela can defend in space you should rewatch the Celtics-Hawks series. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Jaylen Brown agrees on 5yr/304mil deal|Capela on block? - Ghost of Podkolzin - 07-31-2023 (07-31-2023, 04:26 PM)omahen Wrote: I am dismissing the stats in this case, because: Wait, are you proposing we get in a time machine, go back to 2018, and trade for Capela? Why does it matter what he did in HOU and how that compares to Nurk's career best? I mean, if you're Jesus you can resurrect Wilt and that'll beat Capela's career best. Listen, at some point you have to focus on getting it right, not being right. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Jaylen Brown agrees on 5yr/304mil deal|Capela on block? - Ghost of Podkolzin - 07-31-2023 (07-31-2023, 04:46 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: RAPM isn´t all in one crap. Regression of lineup data with selected priors to account for outliers. Why is Nurkic ranked as high. Maybe because him being on the floor was the difference between worst defense in the league and slightly below average during his stint with the Blazers. We can come up with all kinds of interpretations for stats (what I would expect in a response...explanation why his +/- numbers are as good when he isn´t as good as the numbers suggest) but it´s not possible to dismiss factual reality. Capela was played off the court on both ends. But let's focus on his HOU days 4 years ago, lol. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Jaylen Brown agrees on 5yr/304mil deal|Capela on block? - KillerLeft - 07-31-2023 (07-31-2023, 11:48 AM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: Is Capela going to play the final 5 minutes in playoff games? Nope. Then again, neither will Holmes or Powell. Neither would Ayton. I’m a fan of his, but not of spending much to get him, and that’s a big reason. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Jaylen Brown agrees on 5yr/304mil deal|Capela on block? - Jym - 07-31-2023 (07-31-2023, 05:28 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Nope. Then again, neither will Holmes or Powell. Neither would Ayton. I'm still confused why you lump Ayton into those groups. He's been on the court in those situations in multiple series. And I'm confident he'd close over Maxi here RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Jaylen Brown agrees on 5yr/304mil deal|Capela on block? - Smitty - 07-31-2023 (07-31-2023, 06:34 PM)Jym Wrote: I'm still confused why you lump Ayton into those groups. If you’re paying someone 35M. They better be on the floor when it matters. That’s why I don’t want Ayton though. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Jaylen Brown agrees on 5yr/304mil deal|Capela on block? - The Jom - 07-31-2023 The game changes last 6 mins. The refs swallow the whistle. The pressure mounts. The long game doesn’t matter, just the present. Frequent stoppages let you catch your breath. It’s really not the same thing. Maxi is a pretty good center in those spots. Gonna be hard to find someone to make him sit. Don’t think that should be the goal. |