(07-31-2023, 09:38 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: On top of what KL said, he is a significantly better rebounder especially on the offensive side. At their respective peaks, Holmes scored 12 ppg while Capela scored 15. Some significant (in very important places for this team) differences and some marginal ones makes it a huge difference IMO.

(07-31-2023, 09:38 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: On top of what KL said, he is a significantly better rebounder especially on the offensive side. At their respective peaks, Holmes scored 12 ppg while Capela scored 15. Some significant (in very important places for this team) differences and some marginal ones makes it a huge difference IMO.

(07-31-2023, 08:58 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: With respect, I disagree in a major way. You're an advanced stats guy, so I'm wouldn't be surprised if you have something to back up this opinion, but imo it would work as an argument for abandoning advanced stats altogether (tongue in cheek). Capela, whatever we think he's still got left, was a FINE defender during the end of his Rockets tenure. One of the best in the game - a difference maker. 

I like Holmes, but have never thought of him as a difference maker on either end.

(07-31-2023, 10:50 AM)mvossman Wrote: Per 36 they are scoring less than a point different while Holmes has a better TS and an actual midrange game with his push shot.  Capela is the better rebounder and the better player, I just don't think they are as far apart as advertised.

(07-31-2023, 10:50 AM)mvossman Wrote: Per 36 they are scoring less than a point different while Holmes has a better TS and an actual midrange game with his push shot.  Capela is the better rebounder and the better player, I just don't think they are as far apart as advertised.

(07-31-2023, 11:24 AM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: OK?   What's the point?  So Holmes isn't shitty in your view as he is in others' views?

(07-31-2023, 11:32 AM)mvossman Wrote: This whole conversation has been about how much asset its worth to upgrade from Holmes to Capela.  I would argue that the size of the gap between their on court value would be a crucial factor in that assessment.  I think they are less far apart than others think, which is why I am less willing to spend big assets on Capela.

(07-31-2023, 08:58 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: With respect, I disagree in a major way. You're an advanced stats guy, so I'm wouldn't be surprised if you have something to back up this opinion, but imo it would work as an argument for abandoning advanced stats altogether (tongue in cheek). Capela, whatever we think he's still got left, was a FINE defender during the end of his Rockets tenure. One of the best in the game - a difference maker. 

I like Holmes, but have never thought of him as a difference maker on either end.

(07-31-2023, 11:32 AM)mvossman Wrote: This whole conversation has been about how much asset its worth to upgrade from Holmes to Capela.  I would argue that the size of the gap between their on court value would be a crucial factor in that assessment.  I think they are less far apart than others think, which is why I am less willing to spend big assets on Capela.

(07-31-2023, 11:41 AM)mvossman Wrote: Maybe I am misremembering, but I thought Capela struggled in the playoffs in his late Houston days.  I seem to remember there some thought that he was getting run off the court against 5 out and that is part of the reason they traded him.

(07-31-2023, 11:43 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: All of these discussions are fully projection estimates on Holmes. With Cap, he’s shown for a much longer period of time that he is capable of realizing the predictions. That is also worth much more to me.

(07-31-2023, 11:45 AM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: Nope.  You are remembering correctly.  HOU moved him because he couldn't stay on the court in D'Antoni's offense.  Could he fit in better here with Luka's deliberate pace?  Given his age and decline, I don't think so.

(07-31-2023, 11:40 AM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: Why is the convo Holmes vs Capela, as opposed to just Capela and what he can do for us?  I highly doubt ATL sees any value in Holmes, so it's not like we'd be trading them for each other.  IMO, Capela's worth doesn't get more than McGee, Holmes, and maybe THJ.  No way ATL moves him for that crap.  Absolutely no picks or kids.  IMO, the 27FRP has the value of then OMax now.  I'm not trading OMax for Capela.

(07-31-2023, 11:48 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: If he couldn´t play next to Harden he isn´t a fit next to Luka. As much as some fans dislike the comparisation Luka is trending in the same direction. Less pick and roll more iso ball.

(07-31-2023, 11:43 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: All of these discussions are fully projection estimates on Holmes. With Cap, he’s shown for a much longer period of time that he is capable of realizing the predictions. That is also worth much more to me.

(07-31-2023, 11:49 AM)mvossman Wrote: This conversation was based on a trade involving Capela for Holmes.  Atlanta does it because they are saving 6 mil and getting a backup center plus whatever assets we are sending.

You clearly don't value Capela as others, so from that standpoint Holmes value wound not matter because you are not trading for Capela regardless.

The 27 pick has more value than Omax.  Omax was a 24 pick.  That 27 has reasonable potential to be lottery.  Teams could easily convince themselves that there is a good chance Luka bolts and we are a bottom feeder by 27.  Picks in general are more valuable than the player recently picked because they represent more possibilities.

(07-31-2023, 11:42 AM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: Y'all, I will be routing for Holmes to have a bounce back season, but SAC had to give up a FRP for us to take on his contract.  That is his current value: a negative FRP.  Let's not make him out to be what he's not and set him up for failure with ridiculous expectations.