(07-28-2023, 04:16 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: KL has discoursed quite well on the value of that '27 FRP. It seems to me that for some of you all to view it as viable to use it simply to upgrade from Holmes to Capela (even for the additional benefit of getting out of Joel's contract) indicates to me that you think that Holmes is really, really awful, verging on being as unplayable as McGee. I don't buy that. The Holmes of two years ago is not much worse a player than Clint. If such a trade does happen, I will assume the Mavs worked out Holmes and found him to be profoundly washed. But for the '27 FRP to be included in a Capela trade, we have to be getting back another rotation player as well, from where I sit.

(07-28-2023, 06:25 PM)F Gump Wrote: About Capela, I can't see the Mavs having the least interest in paying an unprotected 1st for Capela. If it was me, I would balk at ANY kind of a 1st, frankly.

What I see is that (a) he's 29, so it's all downhill from here, and (b) he's coming off a down year which may be an indicator. While he could be an upgrade to some degree, he is definitely NOT going to be a star C and can he even keep from being run off the floor in the playoffs? His contract is definitely not a bargain, although he could possibly play well enough where it's reasonable. 

Most of all, he would only be a rental. While the future is expected to be Lively, and perhaps sooner than we know, it's almost certainly NOT a 31-year-old Capela when his contract runs out. You'd be stupid to pay a 1st for a temp imo.

As for whether a deal can get done without a 1st, I think ATL proactively wants to move him. Must find a deal. Move on. I think it's the same dynamic at play as we saw with Bullock to SA, where the Mavs felt they had to move Bullock to get more minutes for Green. The idea you can just let the past starter stay to be a backup often doesn't work in real life. And if the Hawks feel constrained to move Capela and get him out of the way before ATL hits camp, Dallas seems to be the ONLY one interested.

I know I'm on an island with this stuff, but that's how I see it.

(07-28-2023, 06:25 PM)F Gump Wrote: . . . I know I'm on an island with this stuff, but that's how I see it.

(07-28-2023, 11:34 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: Trust me, there will come a day when the decision to move the "29 (or was it '30) UNPROTECTED pick for Kyrie will be universally hated by this community. That realization is coming at us like a Mack truck. Even if they win a championship between now and then (probably not as likely as we'd like to hope, but the hope is what's great, of course), it will STILL be annoying to watch BRK or some other team get the 4th pick that year while our Mavs have a frustrating time of it that summer, and that possibility is so much more likely than people realize.

(07-28-2023, 08:56 PM)The Jom Wrote: And I certainly don’t agree that the Mavs are among the worst run franchises. 

(07-28-2023, 09:11 PM)IamDougieFresh Wrote: Once you guys see what gOat Max is, you will understand the massive value of a late first.

(07-28-2023, 03:36 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: I'll be honest.  This franchise's ability to deal and draft well makes me value that 2027 FRP a lot more.  Going into this offseason I saw no value in Mavs' draft picks.

(07-28-2023, 09:19 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: As for the pick, I'm right. 100% of us will be annoyed (at least) about that pick being gone when the time comes, as Kyrie will have been gone for YEARS by then. Some of the more stubborn people won't admit it, but all of us will be annoyed.

(07-28-2023, 10:14 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: To contend you need 2 superstars.  I'll not regret that pick to get one.

The picks to NYK are different.  The Mavs got jobbed on both KP transactions.

(07-28-2023, 09:51 PM)F Gump Wrote: EVERYONE will be pissed ("annoyed") by 2029 over the pick being traded? Sure, anything is possible. But I doubt that one by a lot.

What you obviously don't want to consider is that (a) the pick may be total crap, and (b) the results of Kyrie being here (both on and off the court) can easily turn out to be a huge plus. Either or both of those things (which have all kinds of likelihood) would make a huge difference in how fans see the trade. You can pretend they don't matter to people, but they do. 100%.

(07-28-2023, 06:25 PM)F Gump Wrote: About Capela, I can't see the Mavs having the least interest in paying an unprotected 1st for Capela. If it was me, I would balk at ANY kind of a 1st, frankly.

(07-28-2023, 11:13 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: I agree, good thing no single person here has proposed such a trade.

(07-28-2023, 09:19 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Did you and Christian Wood break up?

(07-28-2023, 11:38 PM)IamDougieFresh Wrote: I’m still a believer. Hoping he ends up in Miami. I feel that a lineup of Dame - Butler - Wood - Bam would be very good.

(07-28-2023, 11:07 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: . . . I believe there is going to be endless bitching and moaning during the summer when that pick gets made.

(07-28-2023, 11:24 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: The semantic debate you’re trying to engage in isn’t really interesting, with respect.

It’s not that people aren’t getting your point that part of the value you’re suggesting for the pick is dumping Holmes and or McGee’s money, it’s that those aren’t goals anyone feels the Mavs MUST reach. If they’re trying to do that, it’s because they want Capela, an upgrade over Holmes, and sure, they’d need to dump some or all of that money to make that financially feasible. However, if they do nothing Holmes might actually play some here (maybe even more than some, according to those most optimistic among us) and if he does, his money won’t look that bad in a year. McGee’s contract is trash, but BOTH of them become usefully sized expirings in a year.

So, THE ONLY ACTUAL BENEFIT the team would get for the pick is really just having Capela immediately. It’s not at all like there’s a need to dump Holmes without getting Capela, so unless you think Capela alone is worth the pick (to whatever degree he’s actually an upgrade over Holmes/Powell, opinions on which probably vary from person to person, even among professionals), doing nothing is better than the trade you suggest. Pretty clearly, imho.

I think Capela represents a HUGE upgrade at center, but I flatly don’t think the team is ready for that to matter enough to justify such a splurge. I’d love to have him, but not if that pick has to go out in the process. That might be the only way (might not) but if it is, I’d prefer to see what Holmes/Powell/Kleber can do and hope Lively is a fast learner.

(07-29-2023, 12:12 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: If you’re using Holmes and McGee to get Capela, that is a fair trade, right here, right now. IF Holmes shows something IF he’s given time on the court, that could change (it wouldn’t get worse if he plays bad though, he’s at rock bottom value).

We have a young superstar ready to contend now and just paid an aging star a huge amount of money (even if it is less than everyone thought), what would be “stupid” (as FGump puts it) is to not give those two the best team on the court, especially now that they seemingly shored up our future. When that 27 conveys as the #30 pick, no one is going to be worried about it one bit (same with the 29). They’re gonna be talking about the amazing championship we just won.

(07-29-2023, 12:11 AM)The Jom Wrote: Can’t argue this one. There’s endless bitching and moaning THIS offseason, which looks spectacular from my vantage point.