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Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein-Ingram Trade Inevitable| LAL Want Lebron Back On Any Terms - Printable Version

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RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - ItsGoTime - 05-04-2023

Man, I think I need to have Okogie in the deal as bust insurance if I have to take Ayton. Even then, I’m not fully sold. I mean, if Ayton busts here? We’re right back in the KP situation again.

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - dirkfansince1998 - 05-04-2023

(05-04-2023, 05:57 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Man, I think I need to have Okogie in the deal as bust insurance if I have to take Ayton. Even then, I’m not fully sold. I mean, if Ayton busts here? We’re right back in the KP situation again.

Ayton has no relevant injury history and I think at this point no one expects him to be an allstar. We know what he can/cannot do. Aren´t gambling on unicorn potential.
Would argue that moving on from Kyrie actually reduces the risk of another KP-like situation. Less injury and off court drama. Maybe a slight talent downgrade.

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - omahen - 05-04-2023

(05-04-2023, 05:57 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Man, I think I need to have Okogie in the deal as bust insurance if I have to take Ayton. Even then, I’m not fully sold. I mean, if Ayton busts here? We’re right back in the KP situation again.

I am also not really an Ayton fan. I think he is soft, not sure it is just his situation in Phoenix. On the other hand, Irving is far from bust free risk. And as we talked with Dan - if Irving wants to leave, what leverage do you really have? Do you want to pay him a huge contract if he actually rather wants to be somewhere else?

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - F Gump - 05-04-2023

(05-04-2023, 05:53 AM)omahen Wrote: Burns and Gambo on Arizona Sports on Twitter: "Could the #Suns swap Deandre Ayton for Kyrie Irving this offseason??? ? @Gambo987 dropped that unexpected ? on @Burnsy987 today! https://t.co/m2LST7G2sI" / Twitter

Just radio guys stirring the pot.

PHX couldn't do a simple Ayton-for-Kyrie S&T swap because of their payroll. As they sit, well above the apron. Also not sure how well Kyrie would fit on a team with KD and Booker, but only one ball.

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - omahen - 05-04-2023

(05-04-2023, 06:14 AM)F Gump Wrote: Just radio guys stirring the pot.


Never said otherwise. Gambo supposed does have some Suns connections though.


(05-04-2023, 06:14 AM)F Gump Wrote: PHX couldn't do a simple Ayton-for-Kyrie S&T swap because of their payroll.


I know. We discussed it before and it probably includes CP3.


(05-04-2023, 06:14 AM)F Gump Wrote: Also not sure how well Kyrie would fit on a team with KD and Booker, but only one ball.


For this part, I think he can fit just fine. It is basically recreation of the Harden-Durant-Irving idea from Brooklyn. It did fall apart, but I don't think it was because of the number of the (basket)balls.

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - omahen - 05-04-2023

The obstacle with Ayton-Irving, which I mentioned before, is that Phoenix would still need a center and they don't really have a way to get one.

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - ItsGoTime - 05-04-2023

(05-04-2023, 06:05 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Ayton has no relevant injury history and I think at this point no one expects him to be an allstar. We know what he can/cannot do. Aren´t gambling on unicorn potential.
Would argue that moving on from Kyrie actually reduces the risk of another KP-like situation. Less injury and off court drama. Maybe a slight talent downgrade.
Sure, I understand that. I meant a KP situation where we have a max contract C who has lost all positive value. A max contract C who isn’t living up to the max contract is about the worst thing to have on a roster. I think Kyrie would still have suitors for 2-3 more years.

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - ItsGoTime - 05-04-2023

(05-04-2023, 06:06 AM)omahen Wrote: I am also not really an Ayton fan. I think he is soft, not sure it is just his situation in Phoenix. On the other hand, Irving is far from bust free risk. And as we talked with Dan - if Irving wants to leave, what leverage do you really have? Do you want to pay him a huge contract if he actually rather wants to be somewhere else?
Yes, this situation would be tricky and isn’t without risk. I was with those who said he’ll ask out in 1-2 years. I just think, while he has burned a lot of bridges around the league, he would still have a few suitors (Phoenix still even) as opposed to yet another busted #1 pick C on a max contract.

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - ItsGoTime - 05-04-2023

(05-04-2023, 06:26 AM)omahen Wrote: The obstacle with Ayton-Irving, which I mentioned before, is that Phoenix would still need a center and they don't really have a way to get one.
I liked this post, but I will say, with those 3 stars, Biyombo and Landale wouldn’t be horrible. Landale has me a bit interested honestly. If we have to take on CP3 as well? I’m demanding Okogie since they don’t have any picks to trade.

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - DanSchwartzgan - 05-04-2023

(05-01-2023, 11:14 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Mavs and Atl need a shakeup in the worst way. Okongwu needs to finally be the undisputed starter. Collins needs a change in scenery. THJ needs a new team as does Bullock. This trade happens this season before the draft.

Atl out: Collins/Capela
Mavs out: Maxi/Bullock/THJ
 


I was thinking through the Giannis news (PO is 25/26 season) and the idea that Cuban is somehow going to take advantage of teams that are close to the second apron (ignoring of course that we are one of those teams).  Atlanta is also one of those teams.  They are already at $170mm without the money for their pick in 23/24.  It doesn't get any better from there as Murray, Okongwu and Bey all have to be paid a year from now.  So, Atlanta could certainly stand to get off of some money next season (and therefore would value deals that expire after this season).

If Dallas is trying to be a player for Giannis, they have to position themselves in a way that allows them to go for him in free agency in the summer of 2025 and a trade the summer or TDL before that.  Capela is really the only Atlanta player who fits the mold.  Add him to the mix and you have Capela, McGee and THJ all expiring after the 24/25 season.  So, they both create space the summer of 25 or can be used in trade as expiring deals during the 24/25 season.

So, I tend to agree Atlanta needs to do something and the obvious priority for Dallas is Capela.  But, I tend to disagree that Atlanta wants anything to do with THJ and doubt Dallas wants anything to do with Collins.  To me, the logical deal is Reggie/McGee and #10 for Capela and #15.  It probably fits the needs of both teams financially and on the court.  I'm envisioning this being done at the draft.

Capela is the instant and obvious starter at C, relieving the need there.  At that point, 15 can be used for the BPA.  This pulls Atlanta under the first apron by a few dollars, but moves Dallas to within $3mm of the second apron.  We'd have to do something else to be able to use even the TP MLE (all assumes Kyrie takes his full max).

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - omahen - 05-04-2023

(05-04-2023, 07:33 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: I’m demanding Okogie


I think Okogie is a FA

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - ItsGoTime - 05-04-2023

(05-04-2023, 08:08 AM)omahen Wrote: I think Okogie is a FA
Well, that’s what I get for looking at trade machine numbers. Their numbers are always screwy this time of year, should’ve known better.

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - SleepingHero - 05-04-2023

(05-04-2023, 06:14 AM)F Gump Wrote: Just radio guys stirring the pot.

PHX couldn't do a simple Ayton-for-Kyrie S&T swap because of their payroll. As they sit, well above the apron. Also not sure how well Kyrie would fit on a team with KD and Booker, but only one ball.

But wouldn't a CP3+Ayton deal work? 

I'm actually interested in a deal like that. Mavs can get their 2nd ball handler AND starting center in 1 move and retain 2027 FRP (and possibly #10) for that starting wing. 

CP3's last year is also not guaranteed at all, so the Mavs cap situation is preserved in 2025.

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - ItsGoTime - 05-04-2023

CP3 is at best the right 3rd PG in the 3 PG system we should go back to.

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - StrandedOnBeauboisHill - 05-04-2023

(05-04-2023, 06:05 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: I think at this point no one expects him to be an allstar


At his salary I would expect him to be one.

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - SleepingHero - 05-04-2023

(05-04-2023, 10:22 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: CP3 is at best the right 3rd PG in the 3 PG system we should go back to.


CP3 might have taken a step back, but he still averaged 14ppg and 9apg. Health is of course an issue, but he's still very much a starter.

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - MarkAguirreWrathofGod - 05-04-2023

Ayton and CP seems a little lite to me for Kyrie, unless there is some leverage he has where he can walk for free. Ayton is not a good contract.

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - omahen - 05-04-2023

(05-04-2023, 12:48 PM)MarkAguirreWrathofGod Wrote: Ayton and CP seems a little lite to me for Kyrie, unless there is some leverage he has where he can walk for free. Ayton is not a good contract.

Any Kyrie "trade" is made under the assumption he wants to leave. He is a free agent and Mavs are in no position to shop him around. Also, Kyrie max or near max contract is also not a good contract in my opinion.

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - F Gump - 05-04-2023

(05-04-2023, 09:16 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: But wouldn't a CP3+Ayton deal work? 

My point was that the idea of a simple one-for-one swap is just being floated, not reported. It would be a complicated deal, not a simple one, because of payroll issues for BOTH teams.

Kyrie for CP3+Ayton doesn't work either.

Is there some solution? Sure, in theory.

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - ItsGoTime - 05-04-2023

(05-04-2023, 12:13 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: CP3 might have taken a step back, but he still averaged 14ppg and 9apg. Health is of course an issue, but he's still very much a starter.
Fully disagree, I struggle thinking of him as a backup he gets hunted so much. He was great for the Suns for the first year. After that,  he and his contract have been the biggest issue for the team IMO.