(07-17-2023, 10:36 PM)cow Wrote:

(07-17-2023, 06:25 PM)F Gump Wrote: Circling back around - now would you ....

Ayton-Wainright-Camara
Holmes-McGee-THJ

Can't happen until early Sept. Money is almost identical (only about 179K diff). 3-for-3 means no one has empty slot to fill afterwards, or a need to waive someone and eat their salary to make the bodies fit. Those may be the ONLY 3 that Phx can trade until Dec (except their big 3).

Very imperfect deal. It ignores all the posturing from both camps, about who is or isn't worth what, and what they will and won't do.

But it does a lot. Besides the right money and number of bodies being swapped, it solves (to some degree) "a starting C for Dallas" and "split Ayton into smaller pieces for easier maneuvering for PHX" while still (perhaps fairly) leaving both teams with other possible needs to deal with.

So, would you?

(07-17-2023, 10:32 PM)Reunion Mav Wrote: Built from within teams like Denver look good moving forward. That is the positive incentive not to be tempted to over spend.

(07-17-2023, 07:12 PM)mvossman Wrote: What is that list?  Maybe if your focused solely on defense but then Thybulle belongs in that list.

I feel like folks are getting carried away with Caruso.  He scores 6 points a game, starts half his games at most and generally averages in the low 20s minutes wise.  That is a good role/rotational player.  Those other guys start every game and play well over 30 minutes a game.  They are in different leagues as players and I am skeptical Caruso could keep up with those guys defensively if had to play those minutes against starting units.  He is a really good defender, but I just don't think he is someone you spend major assets on.

(07-17-2023, 10:36 PM)cow Wrote:

Quote:https://twitter.com/btoporek/status/1681331598392688646?s=46&t=Ofn9ihgBPdBFQJpnkEDS0A

Bryan Toporek (@btoporek)
Daryl Morey on what he wants in a James Harden trade: "If we don't get either a very good player or something that we could turn into a very good player, then we're just not gonna do it."

(07-18-2023, 08:06 AM)Kidnova Wrote: Green is already better than Caruso offensively. 

Quote:https://twitter.com/eringrugan/status/1681337515070967809?s=20

Erin Grugan (@eringrugan)
Daryl Morey on 97.5: "I think James [Harden] is a little bit hard to play with at times. I think Joel [Embiid] is a little bit hard to play with at times. Both these guys are such dominant forces that they can be challenging for guys to play off of." #Sixers

Quote:https://twitter.com/btoporek/status/1681333168652132352?s=46&t=Fmdr94oXagcEyy75KJqaFg

Bryan Toporek (@btoporek)
Daryl Morey: "A lot of the depth we lost, if we had done something to bring them back, it would have hurt our ability to compete down the road."

He says they're the only contender poised to have significant cap room next year.

Quote:https://twitter.com/btoporek/status/1681338008031707138?s=46&t=Fmdr94oXagcEyy75KJqaFg

Bryan Toporek (@btoporek)
Morey says an elite wing who can play both on and off the ball would be the perfect complement to Joel Embiid.

Perhaps a hint about the archetype they're pursuing in a Harden trade and/or next offseason?

(07-18-2023, 11:42 AM)cow Wrote: If he were consistent, that might be true, but he is anything but consistent.

(07-18-2023, 12:30 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: Well I suppose it depends on the expectation and scale of consistency.  Green last year wasn't a night in-night out 15 point a game guy. But piggybacking off of everyone else's comments, setting in stone a 22 year olds future production based off of his previous season is tricky at best and slightly obtuse at worst. 

Green has consistently gotten better each year, and has nearly doubled his offensive output year after year. Following that trend, he should average close to 18ppg next year. Of course that's unlikely, but it's not inconceivable (nor unlikely) that Green could average close to 15ppg based on his historical trends.

That also coincides with an increase of efficiency as well. It's one thing to score more, but to also become more efficient while doing so is rare. And it points to his increases not being a fluke. From that perspective, we should expect Green to come into next season being a more polished offensive player, and one that's due for a pay increase.

Obviously I'd love to have Green on as cheap of a deal as possible, but I don't see why many are balking at the idea that Green could become worth 4/80 by the beginning of the next summer. We'll see. I'm not going to try and bet against the guy since he's made consistent big strides year after year.

By the way, just to hammer it home, Green scored more total points, had more shots per game, more points per game, and was magnitudes more efficient than Caruso has been the last 2 previous seasons.

(07-18-2023, 12:55 PM)cow Wrote: Just to hammer it home, I'd take Alex over Josh right now.  I know what I'm going to get from Alex every game, far less so than Josh.  Basketball is more than just stats.  I'm sure Wood had pretty nice stats the last few seasons too.

(07-18-2023, 12:48 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: To double down on my earlier post about Caruso´s +/-.

http://nbashotcharts.com/rapm5?id=-2063477284

5-year RAPM (big sample size to adjust for outliers):

(07-18-2023, 12:48 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: To double down on my earlier post about Caruso´s +/-.

http://nbashotcharts.com/rapm5?id=-2063477284

5-year RAPM (big sample size to adjust for outliers):

(07-18-2023, 01:13 PM)The Jom Wrote: This seems to me like a strange way to support your argument. It’s a combo of 2 very different stats—one entirely about offense and one entirely about defense. If we take the top 2 offenders (Dame and Kawhi), both outliers statistically, it’s pretty clear their max contracts are due to offense and not defense. If we look at the top 2 defenders (Alex and Derrick), both outliers too, it’s obviously not their offense that gets em paid, and obvious that their pay is nowhere close to any of the rest of the group, all of whom are way better offensively.

Yes, Josh today is closer to Alex and Dwight than to Dame and Kawhi in many, many ways. But if you’re suggesting he won’t get paid based on his offense, I’m not following the logic. And if you’re saying this combo stat is a fair way to value players, the guys who write the NBA contracts plainly don’t agree.

Or maybe I just misunderstand the point you’re making?

(07-18-2023, 01:13 PM)The Jom Wrote: This seems to me like a strange way to support your argument. It’s a combo of 2 very different stats—one entirely about offense and one entirely about defense. If we take the top 2 offenders (Dame and Kawhi), both outliers statistically, it’s pretty clear their max contracts are due to offense and not defense. If we look at the top 2 defenders (Alex and Derrick), both outliers too, it’s obviously not their offense that gets em paid, and obvious that their pay is nowhere close to any of the rest of the group, all of whom are way better offensively.

Yes, Josh today is closer to Alex and Dwight than to Dame and Kawhi in many, many ways. But if you’re suggesting he won’t get paid based on his offense, I’m not following the logic. And if you’re saying this combo stat is a fair way to value players, the guys who write the NBA contracts plainly don’t agree.

Or maybe I just misunderstand the point you’re making?

(07-18-2023, 01:37 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Just pointing out that both Hardy and Green have a long way to go to even get into the conversation if we are looking at impact metrics. When I read that Green is more or less the same player and already more efficient on offense I start to question my sanity. Impact metrics are a good way to account for all the stuff that isn´t showing up in the boxscore.
As far as my overall interpretation of RAPM goes. In the same role as a first or second option on offense Caruso would obviously never be as good as the rest of the guys on the list. But in his role as glue guy and swiss-army knife he has a big impact on the game.

Going back to the initial trade proposal one would have to be really high on Green or Hardy (similar impact within the next three years) not to inlcude them in a potential trade package. Going back even further to Stein´s post from the deadline it explains why the Bulls asked for (probably still want) two first round picks in return.