(07-17-2023, 06:35 PM)Jason Terry Wrote: What if Green wants a crazy number like 20 per?

Caruso is already everything we wish Green could become

Green
Mcgee
Both 2nds?
2028 swap?

More cap friendly as well

(07-17-2023, 06:35 PM)Jason Terry Wrote: What if Green wants a crazy number like 20 per?

(07-17-2023, 06:43 PM)F Gump Wrote: If that was the case, I suspect Mavs would have moved on. As you say, the trajectory on Green looks a lot like Caruso (if we assume things go right), and Caruso gets about 9.5M. A number like 20M is not even in the right universe.

(07-17-2023, 06:45 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: Most folks are presuming at minimum 4/55 or so.

(07-17-2023, 06:50 PM)Jason Terry Wrote: Caruso
Holiday
Smart

It’s a short list

(07-17-2023, 06:25 PM)F Gump Wrote: Circling back around - now would you ....

Ayton-Wainright-Camara
Holmes-McGee-THJ

Can't happen until early Sept. Money is almost identical (only about 179K diff). 3-for-3 means no one has empty slot to fill afterwards, or a need to waive someone and eat their salary to make the bodies fit. Those may be the ONLY 3 that Phx can trade until Dec (except their big 3).

Very imperfect deal. It ignores all the posturing from both camps, about who is or isn't worth what, and what they will and won't do.

But it does a lot. Besides the right money and number of bodies being swapped, it solves (to some degree) "a starting C for Dallas" and "split Ayton into smaller pieces for easier maneuvering for PHX" while still (perhaps fairly) leaving both teams with other possible needs to deal with.

So, would you?

(07-17-2023, 06:45 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: Most folks are presuming at minimum 4/55 or so.

(07-17-2023, 07:25 PM)F Gump Wrote: That may be true. But if we get away from the rose-colored glasses on him, and look at players with his type of game, even 4/55 is incredibly rich. In relation to what he's worth, look at Thybulle (10.5M). Or Caruso at 9.5M. Batum at 11.7M. And so on.

The reality of the new CBA economics is forcing teams to abandon the "everyone half-good gets a max" mentality and take a hard look at how much a player really offers and how he can fit into a division of limited payroll. If he gives you 9M of production, you CAN'T pay him 14M or so, because you just can't afford it. Hello, loyal hard-working class citizen Powell at 4M, not the (obviously bloated) MLE+ numbers of before. Bye-bye to Theo the Cheerleader, soaking up 2-3M of payroll but adding nothing on the floor. "Most folks" assumed Kyrie wouldn't accept any deal under 200M, and we see how that ended up.

Once they hit the end of their first contract, I think the days of paying for what you only hope a player can do are probably over. It seems to me we are more likely to see teams paying for what they know he can do based on what he has done, and assess versus how it much will cost to sign someone different.

(07-17-2023, 07:25 PM)F Gump Wrote: That may be true. But if we get away from the rose-colored glasses on him, and look at players with his type of game, even 4/55 is incredibly rich. In relation to what he's worth, look at Thybulle (10.5M). Or Caruso at 9.5M. Batum at 11.7M. And so on.

The reality of the new CBA economics is forcing teams to abandon the "everyone half-good gets a max" mentality and take a hard look at how much a player really offers and how he can fit into a division of limited payroll. If he gives you 9M of production, you CAN'T pay him 14M or so, because you just can't afford it. Hello, loyal hard-working class citizen Powell at 4M, not the (obviously bloated) MLE+ numbers of before. Bye-bye to Theo the Cheerleader, soaking up 2-3M of payroll but adding nothing on the floor. "Most folks" assumed Kyrie wouldn't accept any deal under 200M, and we see how that ended up.

Once they hit the end of their first contract, I think the days of paying for what you only hope a player can do are probably over. It seems to me we are more likely to see teams paying for what they know he can do based on what he has done, and assess versus how it much will cost to sign someone different.

(07-17-2023, 08:27 PM)The Jom Wrote: Looks that way 2 weeks into the new CBA. Not convinced the market won’t adjust. And even if the trend continues for awhile, how long before these now-under-control costs lead to massive profits that likely precipitate another spending-spree era? 

Cycles, man. Cycles.

(07-17-2023, 09:01 PM)F Gump Wrote: It's not a profit issue. It's a competitive balance thing, where teams start losing the ability to add talent.

(07-17-2023, 08:55 PM)MarkAguirreWrathofGod Wrote: Why are we discussing 22 yr. old Josh Green as if he is a finished product vs. Caruso who at age 29 almost certainly is. At 22 Caruso wasn’t even in the NBA, I think he was still at A&M and then played a year in G-League or whatever it was called back then. Josh nearly doubled Caruso’s scoring per game last season on 40.2% from 3 in similar minutes. Caruso shot 36.4 Caruso shot 45% from the field, a career high. Josh shot 53% on higher volume (2 more shots per game.)

Caruso is one of the best defenders in the game, I would love him here. But in a couple of years Josh will be two tiers better offensively than Caruso will ever be. Caruso will be on his last contract.

I still think Green has all-NBA defense potential with added knowledge, experience, strength and, importantly, reputation—so that he gets the benefit of the whistle more often. If he’s willing to sign an extension for 4yr-52m, I couldn’t say yes fast enough.

(07-17-2023, 09:14 PM)The Jom Wrote: What I know about the CBA mostly comes from you. But I think you may have stated this a little too narrowly. Another part of the balance seems to be mortgaging the future to maximize the present (which isn’t new). I’m going to go out on a limb and say outrageous overpays aren’t entirely extinct.

(07-17-2023, 08:27 PM)The Jom Wrote: Looks that way 2 weeks into the new CBA. Not convinced the market won’t adjust. And even if the trend continues for awhile, how long before these now-under-control costs lead to massive profits that likely precipitate another spending-spree era? 

Cycles, man. Cycles.

(07-17-2023, 08:55 PM)MarkAguirreWrathofGod Wrote: But in a couple of years Josh will be two tiers better offensively than Caruso will ever be.