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+--- Thread: Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein-Ingram Trade Inevitable| LAL Want Lebron Back On Any Terms (/showthread.php?tid=2444)
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RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Harden to HOU "in play". Green is gone unless GSW make Finals - F Gump - 04-22-2023
(04-21-2023, 10:57 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: All eggs in 1 basket that when he gets his season ending injury you’re stuck with nothing else to fall back on.
All superstar talent carries that risk. But the trade-off is that if you can get one, you have the sort of player that can change your trajectory. It's worth the risk.
And Wemby adds another dimension of value, in that he will be on a rookie contract for 4 seasons, and won't be at the top tier of salaries (today's $47M superstars) until year 9 or 10, getting paid a number that really alters your cap choices.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Harden to HOU "in play". Green is gone unless GSW make Finals - ItsGoTime - 04-22-2023
(04-22-2023, 01:06 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: But all our eggs wouldn't be in 1 basket if we want to live in the fantasy of Wemby to the Mavs???Starting from where we are now to where we could be, with Wemby or with the package he would return, that is all eggs in 1 basket. You knew that, but decided to turn it into something it isn’t. Already having Luka is the biggest point of the discussion. The fact that none of you would even consider it is ludicrous in my mind, especially after what you think the return would actually be.
We still would have Luka "32/9/9" Doncic on this team. And probably Kyrie Irving too.
That's 3 eggs. 2 superstars and 1 has been heralded as the best prospect for the last 10 years.
You guys are making it seem like it’s a matter of create the team you want on paper, then just go out and make it happen all while adding picks. How does that not get us out of the hole we dug ourselves into? All that for 1 player, and none of you have a second thought about it? A guy that hasn’t played a second in the NBA? Not 1, well, you have a point?
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Harden to HOU "in play". Green is gone unless GSW make Finals - ItsGoTime - 04-22-2023
(04-22-2023, 01:29 AM)F Gump Wrote: All superstar talent carries that risk. But the trade-off is that if you can get one, you have the sort of player that can change your trajectory. It's worth the risk.Let me break some news to you…we have 1 (most likely 2). Sure 3 is better than 2 (maybe), but a deep, young team with 2 guys that can carry without the other (Luka and Kyrie) already in place trumps that in my mind.
And Wemby adds another dimension of value, in that he will be on a rookie contract for 4 seasons, and won't be at the top tier of salaries (today's $47M superstars) until year 9 or 10, getting paid a number that really alters your cap choices.
No guarantees with Kyrie, sure, but that’s also the point of coming away with multiple picks.
If there was a guarantee that Wemby wasn’t going to get injured, the point may turn in your favor, possibly. We could build a team around Kyrie/Luka/Wemby. Not fully positive most of the needed players are on last year’s squad, if we’re talking about building a deep perineal contender. We just don’t have many assets to do so.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Harden to HOU "in play". Green is gone unless GSW make Finals - SleepingHero - 04-22-2023
(04-22-2023, 01:51 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: The fact that none of you would even consider it is ludicrous in my mind, especially after what you think the return would actually be.
Ok don't get me wrong here. I'm not trying to spin your idea into something it isn't. I'm just solely pushing back on the idea that even should Wemby get injured, this team isn't doomed because it has Luka (and most likely Kyrie). The Mavs could still make other trades to fill out the roster (albeit smaller ones than a potential Wemby deal sure).
I think a Mavs team with
Luka
Kyrie
who cares
plays defense
Wemby
Is way better than a roster without Wemby.
And I have considered trading the 1st pick should the Mavs get it. I was one of the firsts to post a crazy trade idea. But I valued Wemby worth at least 1 current all-star, 1 potential future all-star, AND a lotto pick. Not a bunch of role players and salary cap relief.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Harden to HOU "in play". Green is gone unless GSW make Finals - Knutsen - 04-22-2023
(04-22-2023, 01:51 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Starting from where we are now to where we could be, with Wemby or with the package he would return, that is all eggs in 1 basket. You knew that, but decided to turn it into something it isn’t. Already having Luka is the biggest point of the discussion. The fact that none of you would even consider it is ludicrous in my mind, especially after what you think the return would actually be.
You guys are making it seem like it’s a matter of create the team you want on paper, then just go out and make it happen all while adding picks. How does that not get us out of the hole we dug ourselves into? All that for 1 player, and none of you have a second thought about it? A guy that hasn’t played a second in the NBA? Not 1, well, you have a point?
But that’s why our scouting staff would analyze each and every game he ever played. If you’re convinced he can be a generational player like Kareem you take him and run with it. Because having Kareem and Luka gives you a very good chance of becoming a dynasty with multiple titles in the next 10 years.
If he isn’t way ahead of the other top prospects in the draft or in the last couple of drafts you have to weigh your options - is becoming a very good team with a realistic chance to win one or maybe two titles the best case scenario? Then trade him if the haul is massive enough - and pray that you ranked him correctly and the other team giving up the farm for him was wrong.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Harden to HOU "in play". Green is gone unless GSW make Finals - ItsGoTime - 04-22-2023
(04-22-2023, 04:23 AM)Knutsen Wrote: But that’s why our scouting staff would analyze each and every game he ever played. If you’re convinced he can be a generational player like Kareem you take him and run with it. Because having Kareem and Luka gives you a very good chance of becoming a dynasty with multiple titles in the next 10 years.If we get what we need to right this ship, it doesn’t matter what Wemby does for the rest of his career (which will be half injury report). I’ll put Luka with a well fitting team (including deep bench) around him against any player and their team in the league.
If he isn’t way ahead of the other top prospects in the draft or in the last couple of drafts you have to weigh your options - is becoming a very good team with a realistic chance to win one or maybe two titles the best case scenario? Then trade him if the haul is massive enough - and pray that you ranked him correctly and the other team giving up the farm for him was wrong.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Harden to HOU "in play". Green is gone unless GSW make Finals - ItsGoTime - 04-22-2023
Switching gears, Cavs lose in the 1st round, Hendricks is at #10 where we pick. Do you trade THJ and #10 for Allen?
Bertans and McGee and #10 for Allen?
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Harden to HOU "in play". Green is gone unless GSW make Finals - ballsrchr - 04-22-2023
(04-22-2023, 04:23 AM)Knutsen Wrote: But that’s why our scouting staff would analyze each and every game he ever played. If you’re convinced he can be a generational player like Kareem you take him and run with it. Because having Kareem and Luka gives you a very good chance of becoming a dynasty with multiple titles in the next 10 years.
If he isn’t way ahead of the other top prospects in the draft or in the last couple of drafts you have to weigh your options - is becoming a very good team with a realistic chance to win one or maybe two titles the best case scenario? Then trade him if the haul is massive enough - and pray that you ranked him correctly and the other team giving up the farm for him was wrong.
(04-22-2023, 05:00 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: If we get what we need to right this ship, it doesn’t matter what Wemby does for the rest of his career (which will be half injury report). I’ll put Luka with a well fitting team (including deep bench) around him against any player and their team in the league.
At this point the number 1 pick is a nice fantasy. Continuing with the fantasy: I would lean heavily toward trading the pick for a massive haul of quality players and picks...but only after thoroughly investigating Wemby's physical attributes--which I suspect will lead to the "half injury report" as stated above.
We already have a generational type of player. And the Mavs have proven that Luka alone is not enough to win consistently. There has to be a team of high quality players built around Luka. But not only looking at win now at any cost. There needs to be future starters on the bench...and hopefully...eventually...a replacement for Luka along the way--so the Mavs can build a dynasty and stay there.
The Mavs failed to do this with Dirk. Luka has the potential to surpass Dirk...but not yet. Luka has a long way to go. I'll never forget when Dirk went into "God Mode" in the final series against Miami. Now that was a player..,
Anyway--I hated playing team sports, but I like watching basketball. It's better when they win...
Edit: Even though I lean toward trading Wemby (the fantasy pick) I really believe the way to build a "dynasty" team is through the draft, and finding hidden gems who have fallen by the wayside, for whatever reason--not by free agency or trades. Free agency and trades are a good way to spend a lot of money--and if you are Cuban--a good way to get fleeced.
I know...a conundrum...
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Harden to HOU "in play". Green is gone unless GSW make Finals - DallasMaverick - 04-22-2023
Based on the most recent posts, it looks like the Mavs have about a 50% chance to get the #1 pick in the draft.
Maybe time for a chill pill...
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Harden to HOU "in play". Green is gone unless GSW make Finals - Knutsen - 04-23-2023
(04-22-2023, 10:27 AM)DallasMaverick Wrote: Based on the most recent posts, it looks like the Mavs have about a 50% chance to get the #1 pick in the draft.
Maybe time for a chill pill...
Mathematically that‘s probably our odds, yes - because we never moved up before… ;-)
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Harden to HOU "in play". Green is gone unless GSW make Finals - HoosierDaddyKid - 04-23-2023
(04-23-2023, 05:43 AM)Knutsen Wrote: Mathematically that‘s probably our odds, yes - because we never moved up before… ;-)
All the noise Cuban makes towards and about the league, makes Dallas the odds-on favorite
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Harden to HOU "in play". Green is gone unless GSW make Finals - LukaMVP - 04-23-2023
the odds of us getting wemby would be as good as those of a big name FA (harden, for example) signing with us for MLE. however, if we somehow got wemby fantastically and became a favourite over night, we can then realistically hope those quality vets would join us for much lower prices, maybe even minimums.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Harden to HOU "in play". Green is gone unless GSW make Finals - Knutsen - 04-24-2023
(04-23-2023, 09:18 PM)LukaMVP Wrote: the odds of us getting wemby would be as good as those of a big name FA (harden, for example) signing with us for MLE. however, if we somehow got wemby fantastically and became a favourite over night, we can then realistically hope those quality vets would join us for much lower prices, maybe even minimums.
I would hope that we become way more attractive for Vets or even more importantly for good role players looking for a chance to earn a lot of minutes, take the next steps and contribute to winning thanks to Kyrie alone. Which means we have to sign him first, of course.
Maybe Luka isn’t the kind of connector and recruiter and magnet for these players, but I hope Kyrie can be. And we have a lot of minutes and opportunities to shine to offer, don‘t we?
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Harden to HOU "in play". Green is gone unless GSW make Finals - Chicagojk - 04-24-2023
Harden can still run an offense and he can get by his man with his skill level, but he just has trouble finishing at the rim. It was really apparent watching the Nets series. Philly is in a tough spot. Harden is not a max player any longer, but they really need to keep him to remain a contender. I think he is using Houston as leverage. With that being said, I am not sure Houston should be offering a max contract to Harden either. They are in a tricky spot as well though, as their first round pick next year goes to OKC (Those Darn Thunder.....they are amazing).
So two teams this offseason who have different pressures, but the pressure is real. And a compromised star will do his best to use leverage of both to secure is probable last huge payday.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Harden to HOU "in play". Green is gone unless GSW make Finals - ItsGoTime - 04-24-2023
Wasn’t the story that Harden took a paycut to get the team over the hump and win a championship? To me that flies in the face of him using leverage for his next contract.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Harden to HOU "in play". Green is gone unless GSW make Finals - dirkfansince1998 - 04-24-2023
With all the Gobert trade rumors. What about KAT? Probably out of reach for the Mavs and I am not even sure if I would want him on the team but I have a hard time to come up with a reasonable offer. His trade value should be at an all time low. Gobert range? Kyrie range? Would anyone consider a sign&trade deal that involves Kyrie?
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Harden to HOU "in play". Green is gone unless GSW make Finals - ItsGoTime - 04-24-2023
Kyrie would not want to go to Min first and foremost. They may be at similar value right now because of Kyrie’s history. If he comes out playing well next year though, I think his value skyrockets similar to CP3 going to OKC.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Harden to HOU "in play". Green is gone unless GSW make Finals - DanSchwartzgan - 04-24-2023
(04-24-2023, 11:47 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: With all the Gobert trade rumors. What about KAT? Probably out of reach for the Mavs and I am not even sure if I would want him on the team but I have a hard time to come up with a reasonable offer. His trade value should be at an all time low. Gobert range? Kyrie range? Would anyone consider a sign&trade deal that involves Kyrie?
I'm not putting this in the 'likely' category by any means, but I'll point out that we hired two front office guys from Brooklyn and then traded with Brooklyn for Kyrie. Now we are about to hire a former Utah guy and Gobert is on the market. Makes you go hmmmm.
I'm not sure how you manage a cap with Luka, Kyrie and Gobert on it and we certainly can't play a switch heavy D if Rudy is your center. So, there is a lot to argue against it. At the same time, trading THJ for him in a 22/23 deal only needs another $10.85mm to be legal. Some look at him and see a $40mm Powell. Others see a guy with Defense, shooting efficiency, rebounding (O and D) and blocks all in the 90th percentile who often achieve double digit On-Minus-Off impact.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Harden to HOU "in play". Green is gone unless GSW make Finals - omahen - 04-24-2023
(04-24-2023, 04:56 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Gobert is on the market
Was this posted somewhere? I find it quite hard to believe that new Minny GM would capitulate so quickly. Imho, it is much more likely they will move on from KAT.
(04-24-2023, 04:56 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Others see a guy with Defense, shooting efficiency, rebounding (O and D) and blocks all in the 90th percentile who often achieve double digit On-Minus-Off impact.
I think these stands for regular season only. His non existent offense (other than PnR) makes him just too easy to exploit in playoffs, imho
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Harden to HOU "in play". Green is gone unless GSW make Finals - Smitty - 04-25-2023
(04-24-2023, 04:56 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Now we are about to hire a former Utah guy and Gobert is on the market. Makes you go hmmmm.
It would mark the end for me. Losing Brunson one offseason and then trading for this dinosaur, who rubs everyone the wrong way, the next offseason.
Yep, sounds like the Mavs, so you're probably spot on.