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+--- Thread: Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein-Ingram Trade Inevitable| LAL Want Lebron Back On Any Terms (/showthread.php?tid=2444)
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RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Blazers match deal for Thybulle| Grant Williams is a Mav - ItsGoTime - 07-06-2023
(07-06-2023, 12:13 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Oh, then you don’t disagree, because I agree with all of that (depending on what you mean by “play bigger”).I put Holmes in my starting lineup because, well, it’s my post and I’ll put the guy I hope to be there!!! (
I’m just talking about the lineups I have seen people float around in the event that no other center is added.
) I agree that Powell is most likely to have the job at the beginning of the year (sans another development), familiarity with the players and scheme will be too much for Holmes IMO. I just hope Holmes gets up to speed quickly and beats out Powell for the job, that’s best case since we know the limitations of the team with Powell.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Blazers match deal for Thybulle| Grant Williams is a Mav - BigDirk41 - 07-06-2023
(07-06-2023, 12:31 PM)Kidnova Wrote: I would include Green or probably even Hardy in a deal for Allen if that got it done. That kid is exactly what this team needs to move directly into contention discussion.
Absolutely not on Hardy. I'm ok with Green if needed.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Blazers match deal for Thybulle| Grant Williams is a Mav - StrandedOnBeauboisHill - 07-06-2023
I really hope we revisit the Capela talks. It’s still the best stop gap solution from a timeline and financial standpoint. Just don’t know what it would take
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Blazers match deal for Thybulle| Grant Williams is a Mav - KillerLeft - 07-06-2023
(07-06-2023, 12:27 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: https://twitter.com/All_Things_Mavs/status/1677003822365802504?s=20
A11 Things Mavs (@All_Things_Mavs)
From Stein
Allen is the ideal fit, Mavs probably don’t have enough for him. Cavs still aren’t for sure ready to trade him anyway.
Zubac may not be truly available
three guys Dallas has gone after: Capela & Ayton (talks stalled on both) and Naz Reid (never got a chance)
See, and I’m reasonably confident they could get one of these guys (maybe any of them) by adding that unprotected ‘27. The fact that nothing has happened, to me, signals that they’re not willing to do that, which jazzes me up because personally, I feel icky about the idea that they’d spend a lottery pick on one center and then include another, possibly better pick to acquire a player who would impede the progress of the first one.
I hope they continue to improve the team, and center is certainly a place where that can be done, but if they can’t find the deal they’re comfortable with, I’m more than happy to go with Powell/Kleber one more year. They’ve just made sooooo many smart choices this summer.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Blazers match deal for Thybulle| Grant Williams is a Mav - RoyTarpleysGhost - 07-06-2023
(07-06-2023, 12:19 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Well, I’m with you on a lot of that, but Kleber played the 5 almost exclusively last year, defensively. Maybe not during all of his minutes with Powell, but certainly during his minutes with Wood. There a few instances of players referring to the importance of him being healthy because “he’s usually low man.”
I think Kidd probably sees what we all do - that he’s (currently) the best paint defender/rim protector on the team, and that the benefit of having the other team’s 5 pulled to the corner with him, out of the paint, is damn near immeasurable.
I think they’re done hoping he can hold up to more than 12-15 minutes per night, but I fail to see how changing his position is the move.
I agree that they probably want to improve on Powell as a starter for a variety of reasons, but idk…just seems like those “clear cut starter” opportunities have come and gone this summer without working out.
I think signing McGee and drafting Lively in back to back offseasons is a pretty good signal of the type of center they want.
Powell and Holmes are their worst case scenarios.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Blazers match deal for Thybulle| Grant Williams is a Mav - KillerLeft - 07-06-2023
(07-06-2023, 12:37 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: I really hope we revisit the Capela talks. It’s still the best stop gap solution from a timeline and financial standpoint. Just don’t know what it would take
Capela is by far the best fit of all the guys mentioned this summer, and might make this year’s squad a low key contender. Dead serious.
I STILL wouldn’t include that ‘27, since it MUST be unprotected. I probably wouldn’t include Green or Hardy, either. It would be great to have Capela, and the timeline of him to Lively is basically perfect, but this just isn’t a time to be short-sighted, imho.
(07-06-2023, 12:40 PM)RoyTarpleysGhost Wrote: I think signing McGee and drafting Lively in back to back offseasons is a pretty good signal of the type of center they want.
Powell and Holmes are their worst case scenarios.
Sure! But not as the ONLY type they want.
I also think signing Williams and drafting OMAX signals that they thought they needed help at the 4, too!
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Blazers match deal for Thybulle| Grant Williams is a Mav - mvossman - 07-06-2023
(07-06-2023, 12:37 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: I really hope we revisit the Capela talks. It’s still the best stop gap solution from a timeline and financial standpoint. Just don’t know what it would take
My understanding was the ask was a pick swap (10 for 15) and Green. That was too high of a price then, and more so now.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Blazers match deal for Thybulle| Grant Williams is a Mav - KillerLeft - 07-06-2023
(07-06-2023, 12:47 PM)mvossman Wrote: My understanding was the ask was a pick swap (10 for 15) and Green. That was too high of a price then, and more so now.
Yeah, what they did instead was way better than that.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Blazers match deal for Thybulle| Grant Williams is a Mav - mvossman - 07-06-2023
(07-06-2023, 12:40 PM)RoyTarpleysGhost Wrote: I think signing McGee and drafting Lively in back to back offseasons is a pretty good signal of the type of center they want.
Powell and Holmes are their worst case scenarios.
I would argue Holmes is in that general mode. A rim running center who can protect the rim and rebound. He is not an elite rim protector like those guys, but he is a lot closer to that kind of center defensively than Powell.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Blazers match deal for Thybulle| Grant Williams is a Mav - cow - 07-06-2023
I wouldn't include Hardy for Allen but I'd love Allen here. Cavs have cooled on trading him and need a "slam dunk" offer to consider. You'd have to find a taker for THJ that would return value that Cleveland would be interested in, include '27, and probably Josh Green. Not a massive Josh fan, but how do you approximate his role in that scenario? And even at that, I'm not sure that's enough of an offer.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Blazers match deal for Thybulle| Grant Williams is a Mav - KillerLeft - 07-06-2023
Maybe we’re overthinking this. Here are some simple thoughts:
1) we know they like to start games with 1-5 spread pick and roll, establishing how the defense will approach that before moving on to counters. I doubt that will EVER change, as long as Luka is the driving force of this team. Lively can do that at a passable level right away, I think.
2) we know they want to play a little more drop coverage and protect the paint/defend the rim better. It’s a stated priority. These are Lively’s strengths, and why he vaulted up draft boards. He’s probably not to his final level on this stuff, but they are his strengths.
3) the biggest issue on defense for young bigs is that they’re foul prone. Assuming that will be an issue with Lively, and that they’re planning to play him at all, would you rather those fouls come at the beginning of halves, or later, when the free throws have a chance to sway momentum?
It’s possible that Lively will ONLY get that McGee stretch in the 2nd quarter and not even play in the second half, I guess. But, I actually wouldn’t be totally shocked if he started the first and third quarters, 3-7 minutes in each, depending on how things go.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Blazers match deal for Thybulle| Grant Williams is a Mav - mvossman - 07-06-2023
(07-06-2023, 12:53 PM)cow Wrote: I wouldn't include Hardy for Allen but I'd love Allen here. Cavs have cooled on trading him and need a "slam dunk" offer to consider. You'd have to find a taker for THJ that would return value, include '27, and probably Josh Green. Not a massive Josh fan, but how do you approximate his role in that scenario?
Yep. I'm with Killer from the standpoint that I don't want to spend all of our draft capital for one position that will be blocking each other. I also think Green becomes near untouchable with the Thybulle match. To be honest, it would have made sense to keep both anyways. We don't really have a point of attack defender when Green is off the court unless Exum turns out to be way more than expected.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Blazers match deal for Thybulle| Grant Williams is a Mav - StrandedOnBeauboisHill - 07-06-2023
(07-06-2023, 12:47 PM)mvossman Wrote: My understanding was the ask was a pick swap (10 for 15) and Green. That was too high of a price then, and more so now.
Ya I agree with you and Killer in terms of the asking probably being too high. I wouldn't include 27 FRP, Green or Hardy for a guy like Capela and while I doubt this is the case, maybe those two seconds can give us an opportunity to revisit the discussion.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Blazers match deal for Thybulle| Grant Williams is a Mav - RoyTarpleysGhost - 07-06-2023
(07-06-2023, 12:56 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Maybe we’re overthinking this. Here are some simple thoughts:
1) we know they like to start games with 1-5 spread pick and roll, establishing how the defense will approach that before moving on to counters. I doubt that will EVER change, as long as Luka is the driving force of this team. Lively can do that at a passable level right away, I think.
2) we know they want to play a little more drop coverage and protect the paint/defend the rim better. It’s a stated priority. These are Lively’s strengths, and why he vaulted up draft boards. He’s probably not to his final level on this stuff, but they are his strengths.
Maybe that's where we differ. I think Lively is as raw as Josh Green was and will be brought along just as slowly. I don't really see how you can look at his college season and think he will impact NBA games right away. Maybe we'll have a slightly better idea after summer league. In related news...
"Mavericks" rookies Dereck Lively II and O-Max Prosper doing 1-on-0 workouts, as they are not allowed to join live scrimmages and play in summer league until their respective draft day trades are finalized (via @CallieCaplan) https://streamable.com/5rnu4j
edit: I guess the Lively deal is official so he can play. Omax not yet.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Blazers match deal for Thybulle| Grant Williams is a Mav - audiosway - 07-06-2023
(07-06-2023, 12:56 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Maybe we’re overthinking this. Here are some simple thoughts:
1) we know they like to start games with 1-5 spread pick and roll, establishing how the defense will approach that before moving on to counters. I doubt that will EVER change, as long as Luka is the driving force of this team. Lively can do that at a passable level right away, I think.
2) we know they want to play a little more drop coverage and protect the paint/defend the rim better. It’s a stated priority. These are Lively’s strengths, and why he vaulted up draft boards. He’s probably not to his final level on this stuff, but they are his strengths.
3) the biggest issue on defense for young bigs is that they’re foul prone. Assuming that will be an issue with Lively, and that they’re planning to play him at all, would you rather those fouls come at the beginning of halves, or later, when the free throws have a chance to sway momentum?
It’s possible that Lively will ONLY get that McGee stretch in the 2nd quarter and not even play in the second half, I guess. But, I actually wouldn’t be totally shocked if he started the first and third quarters, 3-7 minutes in each, depending on how things go.
This is a lot of the same stuff I was thinking. His main problem at first will be foul trouble. But, that's something that can be worked with. I would much rather give him the room to grow than to bring in a guy that will slow down his development and tie up additional assets.
He came out slow early on last year and as the season went on just got better and better. He is a perfect fit for what Dallas wants to do. So, personally I would be inclined to roll with him being that you have Kleber, Powell, McGee, and Holmes (in that order) as a safety net. I don't think the 5 spot is possibly as bad as it may seem right now.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Blazers match deal for Thybulle| Grant Williams is a Mav - cow - 07-06-2023
(07-06-2023, 01:06 PM)RoyTarpleysGhost Wrote: Maybe that's where we differ. I think Lively is as raw as Josh Green was and will be brought along just as slowly. I don't really see how you can look at his college season and think he will impact NBA games right away.
Grain of salt as I don't follow college hoops but I read the first part of his season and last part of his season were night and day. I hope to God he isn't on Josh's timetable or at least has has a different mindset that will not let him settle for how Josh was brought along.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Blazers match deal for Thybulle| Grant Williams is a Mav - Smitty - 07-06-2023
(07-06-2023, 12:43 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: and might make this year’s squad a low key contender. Dead serious.
Then what are the Mavs doing, if not making this years squad a contender? I think missing the playoffs, the Kyrie contract and Luka's eventual supermax have all but signaled that they will try everything to be contenders sooner rather than later. The Mavs are now young enough to take the kind of chances (like trading '27 FRP), to make this team as good as it possibly can be. Next year they will have access to more picks. This is the path they've chosen.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Blazers match deal for Thybulle| Grant Williams is a Mav - RoyTarpleysGhost - 07-06-2023
^
I also dont see Holmes or Powell as starting center or Lively or Omax as for sure rotation players. I think Mavs want to win now if possible. They're nice prospects to bring along for the future.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Blazers match deal for Thybulle| Grant Williams is a Mav - KillerLeft - 07-06-2023
(07-06-2023, 01:06 PM)RoyTarpleysGhost Wrote: Maybe that's where we differ. I think Lively is as raw as Josh Green was and will be brought along just as slowly. I don't really see how you can look at his college season and think he will impact NBA games right away. Maybe we'll have a slightly better idea after summer league. In related news...
"Mavericks" rookies Dereck Lively II and O-Max Prosper doing 1-on-0 workouts, as they are not allowed to join live scrimmages and play in summer league until their respective draft day trades are finalized (via @CallieCaplan) https://streamable.com/5rnu4j
Not enough impact put on the fact that Green was drafted during the post Covid season, when teams couldn’t operate the way they liked. WAY fewer practices and WAAAAAAAY fewer developmental sessions outside of practice. It was really difficult year to be a rookie, I think.
Also, Green was the 18th pick, not a lottery pick for a team who tanked the last week because they were hell bent to change up at his position.
Look, I’m not saying I KNOW how he’s going to do early on, but I do have a feeling they’re going to put him out there some.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Blazers match deal for Thybulle| Grant Williams is a Mav - Ghost of Podkolzin - 07-06-2023
Names I think we need to now be going after, albeit the remaining MLE, S&T with Wood outgoing, J.Green, THJ, 2027FRP, and/or the SRPs we have.
P.Reed
P.Achiuwa
PJ.Washington
D.Hunter
Z.Collins
J.Allen
T.Eason
J.Nurkic