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RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: TDL past, time to look forward! - RasheedsBigWhiteSpot - 04-12-2023
(04-12-2023, 05:21 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: I was with you until you had us get both the Raptors superstar wings for 3 firsts when it was reported they wanted 3 for just OG!
I like where your mind is headed and I subscribe to the Mavs getting the 2nd pick.
FYI if Kyrie signs a 3 year max deal it'll be closer to 3/150 not 3/120.
Lakers could offer a 3/100. HOU can give him 3/120.
Anyways I'd love for the Mavs to get Walker Kessler. If they could trade down from a hypothetical 2nd pick and nab him I think it'd be worth it. Also have to wonder what other centers could be had for a hypothetical trade for the 2nd pick.
If the Raptors could've gotten 3 1sts for OG they would've. In this deal they're essentially getting one FRP plus Hardy, a guy who looks like he should've been a lotto pick.
Honestly, I think the league's pendulum is swinging back away from giving away multiple firsts for non-superstars after the Gobert debacle. I like OG, but as good as his defense is, his offense is pretty average. He's not a star. In fact, it wouldn't shock me if in five years that Hardy is the best player in the deal.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: TDL past, time to look forward! - Mavs2021 - 04-12-2023
I wish the Mavs would adopt a "smart now", instead of a "win now"-strategy. I don´t think for one second that you can only attract or covince a player with "win now"-moves. You need to show him that you are smart and that you have a clear plan and path forward. We have been making these "win-now" summers every year and it never works out. Part of a "smart now"-strategy is also that you make a move in July that does not appear to make you better immediately, but maybe by October, your star player realizes that you know what you are doing.
Walker Kessler was the 22nd pick this year. Denver had #21 and was looking to upgrade the SG/SF position and looking to free minutes for Bones Hyland. Eventually traded for KCP.
What if you offered them Play-off monster Reggie Bullock/#25 for Monte Morris/#21.
So the isolated event is you traded monster play-offs Reggie Bullock for Morris, so you can pick Walker Kessler. The other option is you trade your 1st round pick and get Christian Wood/Reggie Bullock.
Ask Luka in July what he´d rather have and he´ll say Wood/Bullock or Kessler/Morris.
Ask him today whether he´d rather have Bullock or Kessler/Morris next year.
You need to show the players that you know what you are doing. That they can trust you.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: TDL past, time to look forward! - SleepingHero - 04-12-2023
(04-12-2023, 06:51 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: What if you offered them Play-off monster Reggie Bullock/#25 for Monte Morris/#21.
Confused by what you mean Reggie Bullock/#25. His jersey number? 2025 FRP?
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: TDL past, time to look forward! - RasheedsBigWhiteSpot - 04-12-2023
(04-12-2023, 09:34 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: Confused by what you mean Reggie Bullock/#25. His jersey number? 2025 FRP?
pick number 25
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: TDL past, time to look forward! - omahen - 04-13-2023
Irving SnT for Ayton is a nice idea to play around. It could make sense for Phoenix and Dallas. However, Phoenix is basically in tax with only 7 players under contract and Irving will likely command far more salary than Ayton. Even if Irving takes significant reduction on his contract, it will be still very difficult for Phoenix to fill the roster and find a quality center with the hard cap limits. This means deal is possible only if Dallas (or third team) takes considerably more salary from Phoenix than they are getting as Phoenix would be hard capped. The only realistic name to do that is CP3. Phoenix would also still need a center and I doubt they see a world where McGee is their starter. Mavs would need at least one other good ballhandler and I am affraid CP3 is not really an answer - he is probably more third ballhandler at this stage of his career. He could still be great in this kind of role.
I think Aytons value is lower than Kyrie. At best same value. Phoenix has zero assets to send to a third team to get a center and I doubt it makes sense for Mavs to send assets to third team to get a center to Phoenix. All in all, I just don't see how this deal could be made. Perhaps it would be easier to do it at TDL.
Edit: Wood and Irving for Ayton and CP3 could make sense. Phoenix would have problems playing defense, but they would score a ton. But, it would require Dallas to eat a lot of money. The picks would go for two wings, at least one capable to do something with the ball.
(1) Mavs Film Room ?? on Twitter: "“The Dallas Mavericks believe that DeAndre Ayton is an extremely talented young big man, who has a lot of untapped potential” -MacMahon on DeAndre Ayton being a piece in a HYPOTHETICAL Kyrie Irving sign-and-trade idea with Phoenix" / Twitter
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: TDL past, time to look forward! - DallasMaverick - 04-13-2023
(04-12-2023, 05:21 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: I like where your mind is headed and I subscribe to the Mavs getting the 2nd pick.
I think if the Mavericks fail to get the #4 pick or higher, it's a colossal failure of the scouting department, Mark Cuban, Nico and Fin, Jason Kidd's coaching, and the existing players, especially Dwight Powell and Timmy, and we should all pile on.
Actually wouldn't be surprised to see a post like this in a couple of months.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: TDL past, time to look forward! - SleepingHero - 04-13-2023
(04-12-2023, 09:55 PM)RasheedsBigWhiteSpot Wrote: pick number 25
Did I miss a chapter? We don't have the 25th pick in the draft. We also can't trade the 2025 first until the Knick protections are lifted.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: TDL past, time to look forward! - ItsGoTime - 04-13-2023
(04-13-2023, 11:52 AM)DallasMaverick Wrote: I think if the Mavericks fail to get the #4 pick or higher, it's a colossal failure of the scouting department, Mark Cuban, Nico and Fin, Jason Kidd's coaching, and the existing players, especially Dwight Powell and Timmy, and we should all pile on.Had we started the tank in the game Luka went down after the ASB, we would be talking about a lottery seed at 5 or 6. Alas, we hold on to our hopes and dreams that never come close to reality.
Actually wouldn't be surprised to see a post like this in a couple of months.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: TDL past, time to look forward! - Mavs2021 - 04-13-2023
(04-13-2023, 12:57 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: Did I miss a chapter? We don't have the 25th pick in the draft. We also can't trade the 2025 first until the Knick protections are lifted.
I was explaining the difference between a "win now" and a "smart now" move. It is much more important that your results show a player that you know what you are doing rather than just give them the instant gratification of a "win now"-move that might not even last three months.
In the moment, 12 months ago after the WCFs, Luka would want Wood/Bullock over Walker Kessler/Monte Morris.
Fast forward 12 months we will lose Wood for nothing AT THE MINIMUM (ignoring all the ripple effects) and now Luka can either have future DPOY Walker Kessler and Monte Morris, one of the best back-up PGs in the league or just Reggie Bullock.
I doubt Luka2023 is thinking good job Cuban2022.
It doesn´t matter whether your moves appease a player in the moment. It´s a horrible strategy and always fighting from a position of weakness. It´s important that you make good moves and the results will speak for themselves.
Look at the public hissyfit LeBron threw, when the Lakers front office did NOT trade for Kyrie Irving, but instead said WE know better. Fast forward here is the Lakers in the first round of the play-offs with Russell, Beasley, Vanderbilt, Bamba and Haichmura. That´s how you build a long-term relationship with your player. Is LeBron still complaining?
Nope.That´s the position the Mavs should take this summer. Don´t get pressured by the fear of losing Luka. Show him you make good decisions and he´ll reward you.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: TDL past, time to look forward! - DallasMaverick - 04-13-2023
(04-13-2023, 01:36 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: Look at the public hissyfit LeBron threw, when the Lakers front office did NOT trade for Kyrie Irving, but instead said WE know better. Fast forward here is the Lakers in the first round of the play-offs with Russell, Beasley, Vanderbilt, Bamba and Haichmura. That´s how you build a long-term relationship with your player. Is LeBron still complaining?
Now might be a good time to remind us all of how badly LeBron wanted Russell Westbrook, and how the front office gave him what he wanted, even at the expense of all their depth and some quality young players.
Maybe they learned their lesson the second time around.
Not saying this was the situation with Luka / Kyrie at all - I have no inside information.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: TDL past, time to look forward! - SleepingHero - 04-13-2023
(04-13-2023, 01:36 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: That´s the position the Mavs should take this summer. Don´t get pressured by the fear of losing Luka. Show him you make good decisions and he´ll reward you.
Thanks for the clarification and I see what you're saying now. As much as I agree with your POV, I find a hard time believing Cuban has the brain power to plan 2 moves out ahead, let alone a whole year.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: TDL past, time to look forward! - IamDougieFresh - 04-13-2023
(04-13-2023, 10:08 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: Thanks for the clarification and I see what you're saying now. As much as I agree with your POV, I find a hard time believing Cuban has the brain power to plan 2 moves out ahead, let alone a whole year.
He couldn't even plan for the transition take fouls being taken away.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: OG + Siakam on block. Raptors to go in another direction - SleepingHero - 04-14-2023
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10072388-nba-trade-rumors-raptors-expected-to-move-some-assets-siakam-anunoby-linked
Quote:"I think everybody in the league knows that Toronto is going to be heading to a breakup," a league executive told Steve Bulpett of Heavy.com.
Another league source said, "they're going to get rid of some of their assets and just go in another direction" and listed O.G. Anunoby and Pascal Siakam as potential candidates to be moved via trade.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: OG + Siakam on block. Raptors to go in another direction - ItsGoTime - 04-14-2023
I understand Siakam because he’s holding down Barnes natural position, but they have nothing behind OG and he’s also still just 25. Makes sense to move on from FVV and trade Siakam for a good PG. It would be a good looking starting team with
PG from Siakam trade (Terrance Mann?)/GTJ/OG/Barnes/Poeltl.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: OG + Siakam on block. Raptors to go in another direction - Mavs2021 - 04-14-2023
(04-14-2023, 12:43 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10072388-nba-trade-rumors-raptors-expected-to-move-some-assets-siakam-anunoby-linked
Analyzing the Raptors situation:
1. They will waive the last year of Thad Young´s contract. That is a given.
2. They will hope that FVV, Trent Jr. and OPJ don´t pick up the last year of their options and will happily assist them with any S&T options.
3. If these three players opt in they´ll likely explore trade options for all of them.
4. Anunoby/Barnes are untouchable, unless you put some STUPID offer on the table that the Mavs don´t even have available. Unless the Mavs win a top 3 lottery pick.
That much is obvious to me. Now comes the part, that is less clear and where Nick Nurses recent comments become relevant.
5. Pascal Siakam is 29 years old, on a different timeline that Anunoby/Barnes and in the last year of his contract. Under normal circumstances I´d argue he´s also part of your core. Maybe Siakam has already made it clear, he wants to leave in 12 months. Therefore all the trade rumours, since normal teams don´t like to let assets walk for nothing.
6. Tied into the decision regarding Siakam is the future of Poetl. If you trade Siakam, it also makes no sense to re-sign him.
That´s where we circle back to the comments made by Nick Nurse. That seem to indicate Siakam/Poetl are not part of their long-term future and Nurse has no interest in the rebuilding job from scratch around the core of Anunoby/Barnes/Achiuwa/Koloko.
So what´s my takeaway for the Mavs.
I don´t give into Ujiri´s request of our 2023 pick, our 2027 future 1st round pick, Hardy and Green for Siakam and OPJ.
Here in a language our doofus in charge understands:
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media2.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExZjFlN2Y0NzBmZDUzODNjMDkyM2E1NWZhZTgwNzk1YWE5ZmFiYzkzZCZjdD1n/8vUEXZA2me7vnuUvrs/giphy.gif)
That´s where long-term planning comes into play. When the smartest man in the room pretends to negotiate a summer trade with the Raptors that costs us all our assets, but instead tampers a future FA promise out of Siakam. Then starts working toward cleaning the necessary cap for 2024 before he finishes the Raptors off with a sh*t TDL offer like Bertans + McGee + ONE future 1st for Siakam or we take him for NOTHING in the summer. Your choice.
The correct answer is: GET NICK NURSE!!!!
Or in Cuban language:
![[Image: 85525494.jpg]](https://cdn.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles/picture/2265415/85525494.jpg)
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: OG + Siakam on block. Raptors to go in another direction - loki - 04-14-2023
(04-14-2023, 12:43 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10072388-nba-trade-rumors-raptors-expected-to-move-some-assets-siakam-anunoby-linkedIt might be risky for Toronto to do a full rebuild this year since they owe their 1st rounder (top 6 protected) to the Spurs. I could see them moving a few players but not completely tearing it down. I think they will still try to re-sign FVV and Poeltl. GTJ probably walks.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: OG + Siakam on block. Raptors to go in another direction - ItsGoTime - 04-14-2023
(04-14-2023, 03:57 PM)loki Wrote: It might be risky for Toronto to do a full rebuild this year since they owe their 1st rounder (top 6 protected) to the Spurs. I could see them moving a few players but not completely tearing it down. I think they will still try to re-sign FVV and Poeltl. GTJ probably walks.It was shown that FVV can’t be a full time PG this year. With GTJ being young, it would behoove them to pick him over FVV while shifting to a younger team build. Look for SnT opportunities with FVV, but keep GTJ and search for the next PG.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: TDL past, time to look forward! - hakeemfaan - 04-14-2023
(04-13-2023, 01:36 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: I was explaining the difference between a "win now" and a "smart now" move. It is much more important that your results show a player that you know what you are doing rather than just give them the instant gratification of a "win now"-move that might not even last three months.
In the moment, 12 months ago after the WCFs, Luka would want Wood/Bullock over Walker Kessler/Monte Morris.
Fast forward 12 months we will lose Wood for nothing AT THE MINIMUM (ignoring all the ripple effects) and now Luka can either have future DPOY Walker Kessler and Monte Morris, one of the best back-up PGs in the league or just Reggie Bullock.
I doubt Luka2023 is thinking good job Cuban2022.
It doesn´t matter whether your moves appease a player in the moment. It´s a horrible strategy and always fighting from a position of weakness. It´s important that you make good moves and the results will speak for themselves.
Look at the public hissyfit LeBron threw, when the Lakers front office did NOT trade for Kyrie Irving, but instead said WE know better. Fast forward here is the Lakers in the first round of the play-offs with Russell, Beasley, Vanderbilt, Bamba and Haichmura. That´s how you build a long-term relationship with your player. Is LeBron still complaining?
That´s the position the Mavs should take this summer. Don´t get pressured by the fear of losing Luka. Show him you make good decisions and he´ll reward you.
It starts with having a plan. This franchise for a decade now has not really had a plan than hoping they get lucky in FA. They got lucky in the draft with Luka. Then they got extremely lucky with Brunson.
However they have not shown any patience to dig deep and grind. It comes from Cuban. Even his hiring of Nico is more of the same. He touted Nico’s ability to recruit.
Even if Nico could grind the cupboard is bare in terms of assets due to Donnie’s incompetence.
We can talk a lot about proposals and other things. The only thing that can change things is Cuban hiring a GM who is proven and gives him a lot of leeway. Look at Utah. Ainge came in and made hard decisions. Until Cuban hires a guy like that IMO all these off season moves threads seems like stuck in Groundhog Day to me. Nothing will change when you know the core reason why we have had no plan for a decade has not changed. The lack of a really strong assertive GM who can stand up to Cuban and steady this ship.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: OG + Siakam on block. Raptors to go in another direction - loki - 04-14-2023
(04-14-2023, 05:04 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: It was shown that FVV can’t be a full time PG this year. With GTJ being young, it would behoove them to pick him over FVV while shifting to a younger team build. Look for SnT opportunities with FVV, but keep GTJ and search for the next PG.I'd agree that FVV shouldn't be the lead guard, but without him they have nothing to fall back on. That would be fine except they owe their next pick to the Spurs. I think GTJ gets overpaid by some young team with cap space. To me he looks more like a 6th man rather than a starter. I wouldn't want to be the one giving him a THJ-like deal. FVV at least plays on both ends and could have value to a ton of contenders a year or two down the road.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: OG + Siakam on block. Raptors to go in another direction - IamDougieFresh - 04-15-2023
Starters
Luka
Kyrie
Jalen McDaniels (MLE)
Hendricks (#10)
Turner (2027 1st + Bertans)
Bench
Hardy
Green
Bullock
THJ
Maxi
Dwight (VET MINIMUM)
JaVale
Lawson
Wright
1 more spot + 2 two ways