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+--- Thread: Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein-Ingram Trade Inevitable| LAL Want Lebron Back On Any Terms (/showthread.php?tid=2444)
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RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: TDL past, time to look forward! - omahen - 04-09-2023
(04-09-2023, 05:51 PM)IamDougieFresh Wrote: Okay. Okay. I’ll be the first.
Gobert?
I doubt Minny is selling him for something like 1 FRP and Mavs have more holes to fill than just the center position
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: TDL past, time to look forward! - F Gump - 04-09-2023
No way on Gobert. The 3/130M he will be getting, compared to his playing value (and all the needs elsewhere on the Mavs) would be a franchise killer. And then the Mavs get asked to give one or more picks too? Yikes.
MINN really screwed the pooch on that trade. Just think if they still had Kessler, Vandy, and all those picks instead.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: TDL past, time to look forward! - dirkfansince1998 - 04-09-2023
Gobert crashed two locker rooms. Sounds like a great fit for the Mavs.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: TDL past, time to look forward! - SleepingHero - 04-09-2023
Gobert has had a reputation of being the most difficult and disliked guys in the NBA.
He'd fix the Mavs center problem, but he'd create a bunch of others.
Much rather would go for a smaller tier guy. Capela, Valanciunas, Adams etc. type. Heck even Ayton (who I understand we lack the ammo for).
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: TDL past, time to look forward! - ballsrchr - 04-10-2023
Valanciunas--yes! But he's not a free agent. 1 year to go on his contract--I think. Trade plus a high pick, or two--for us! (for a change). Not for them...
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: TDL past, time to look forward! - DanSchwartzgan - 04-10-2023
(04-09-2023, 09:27 AM)omahen Wrote: Yeah, me too. But Claxton had an excellent season and is a one year rental.
List of current centers that make sense for Mavs team:
1. Capela. They might prefer Okongwu going forward. He is not worth a #10 pick but the difference between #10 and their #15 is not that big to incentivize them to take back a bad contract like Bertans or McGee. I mean, I would immediately do Bullock+McGee+#10 for Capela and #15, but I doubt they would. Would you throw in Hardy?
I’m kind of intrigued by the idea of trading Bullock and #10 at the draft. The way to overcome the flight risk concerns about Claxton would be to trade for someone who is a trade match for Bullock now, but will be restricted in the summer of 2024 (unlike Claxton who is UFA).
What about #10 with Bullock for Okongwu. Atlanta is trying to win now, but in the summer of 24, they have to pay Murray, Bey and Okongwu and already have substantial money committed. If they have 10 and 15, they can use 10 for BPA and 15 on a backup C.
Is 10 too much for Okongwu? I don’t think so. He’s starter quality, plays good D, is on the right timeline. He wouldn’t be available if not for his impending free agency and Atlanta’s proximity to the second apron if they retain Murray. He’s an Excel guy (we don’t know the relationship there any more, but we know it is better than the CAA relationship) and he’s restricted a year from now. Yeah, #10 might yield someone who is better in the long-run (it might also yield someone who is a complete bust), but #10 won’t yield an starter-ready C like Okongwu.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: TDL past, time to look forward! - ItsGoTime - 04-10-2023
Not sure of the math because of what FGump said about Bullock’s salary, but I know it’s close. This could happen at any time after the GSW get knocked out of the playoffs.
THJ, Bullock and a SRP for an opted in Draymond
Can also be done pre-draft
Kleber, McGee and 27 FRP for Gafford, Avdija and a SRP
Then on draft night
Bertans and #10 for OG Anunoby (I know, fantasy)
Buy a SRP for a developmental big with range. Powell for vet min. Replace all our 3rd string with better fitting parts. Whatever MLE we get is used on a good bench big. Hit on 1 undrafted player.
Kyrie/Hardy/vet min or undrafted
Luka/JGreen/vet min or undrafted
OG/Avdija/vet min or undrafted
D Green/MLE/bought SRP
Gafford/Powell/vet min
That’s only 5 guys returning from this year’s team and if we can find a better fitting big for vet min than Powell, we take them.
Other than the OG trade, I think that’s a pretty realistic outcome.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: TDL past, time to look forward! - Kidnova - 04-10-2023
(04-10-2023, 10:38 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Not sure of the math because of what FGump said about Bullock’s salary, but I know it’s close. This could happen at any time after the GSW get knocked out of the playoffs.
THJ, Bullock and a SRP for an opted in Draymond
Can also be done pre-draft
Kleber, McGee and 27 FRP for Gafford, Avdija and a SRP
Then on draft night
Bertans and #10 for OG Anunoby (I know, fantasy)
Buy a SRP for a developmental big with range. Powell for vet min. Replace all our 3rd string with better fitting parts. Whatever MLE we get is used on a good bench big. Hit on 1 undrafted player.
Kyrie/Hardy/vet min or undrafted
Luka/JGreen/vet min or undrafted
OG/Avdija/vet min or undrafted
D Green/MLE/bought SRP
Gafford/Powell/vet min
That’s only 5 guys returning from this year’s team and if we can find a better fitting big for vet min than Powell, we take them.
Other than the OG trade, I think that’s a pretty realistic outcome.
Luka and Draymond on the same team? The officials may boycott all Mavs games. Could get expensive having to pay bonuses to the refs to get them to agree to officiate.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: TDL past, time to look forward! - Mavs2021 - 04-10-2023
I´m always confused why we are trading prime assets like the #10 pick in this draft for players that are available late in the draft or free agency. All you have to do is find them. Basically this all just an excuse to be sh*tty at your job.
Capela was the 25th pick. Claxton was the 31st pick. I´m not giving up a top 10 pick in a generational draft for a player I can find late in the first or early in the 2nd round just because I suck at my job. That kind of lazy crap lands you right where we are. At worst you keep that top 10 pick, play him for a year and if he is NOT working out AT ALL, you can still get an expiring Capela for him in a trade.
The strategy should be:
1. Doncic (duh), Hardy, Green and #10 are completely untouchable. I don´t care how desperate these other teams think we are. That´s our young fallback nucleus. It´s untouchable. Nico is 1 for 1 in drafts, probably it is his true area of expertise, and Cuban doesn´t give a f*** about 2nd round picks, so he let Nico make the Hardy trade without running interference. Play to your potential strength.
2. No draft picks are used to off-set the negative trade value of Bertans and McGee. You ride it out. You don´t stretch-waive Bertans over five years for $6.6M, when he has only one guaranteed year left. Consider stretch-waiving McGee over five years at $2.34M, if you have to.
3. Wood, Kleber, Bullock and THJ are treated as net neutral draft assets, so all the value of the 2027 pick goes into the player acquisition.
4. Four regular roster spots are designated to player development/buy low options each summer. These spots are reserved for players 25 or under.
5. If you are 26+ years old and you are not considered to be a clear cut immediate top 9 rotational player upon acquisition (free agency or trade) then you are not good enough to be considered for win now purposes.
6. Two minimum slots are reserved for chemistry/veteran leaderships players.
7. Stay strong with Kyrie. He has no legit outside leverage. Don´t bid against yourself. 132/3 with a player option. 150/3 with a team option. Otherwise good luck in free agency. Pick between Houston or China, but be careful you don´t fall off the flat-earth there.
So going by those rules:
Draft Taylor Hendricks. (Rule 1)
Waive McGee. Keep Bertans. (Rule 2)
Trade Bullock to Philly for McDaniels (Rule 3)
Trade Kleber/THJ for Vucevic (Rule 3/Rule 5)
Sign Paul Reed, Mo Wagner, S. Mykhailiuk (Rule 4)
Sign Pinson and Powell to minimum deals (Rule 6)
Sign Kyrie 132/3 (Rule 7)
Irving 44
Doncic 40
Vucevic 22 (declining)
Bertans 17
McDaniels 10
Reed 10
Hendricks 4.7
Green 4.7
McGee 2.4 (dead money)
Hardy 1.7
Mykhailiuk 1.7
Wagner 1.7
Lawson 1.7
------
161.6
Doncic/Hardy/Pinson
Irving/Green/Lawson
McDaniels/Mykhailiuk/X
Reed/Hendricks/Bertans
Vucevic/Wagner/Powell
Doncic, Irving, Green, McDaniels and Reed as the defensive small ball monster line-up.
Kidd gets until Christmas to show he still has the attention of the team. Otherwise cut him loose.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: TDL past, time to look forward! - omahen - 04-10-2023
(04-10-2023, 09:49 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: What about #10 with Bullock for Okongwu. Atlanta is trying to win now, but in the summer of 24, they have to pay Murray, Bey and Okongwu and already have substantial money committed.
Certainly an interesting player. But I think Atlanta would prefer to move Capela and keep Okongwu.
Atlanta has a bunch of interesting players but the overall result is bad for a second season in a row, even after adding the perfect partner for Young in Murray. What could they even do to construct better around him other than bringing in 4 all star players? Perhaps Collins is not the best fit, but other than that you really can't do much better. Looking at starters, they have a good defensive center, they have a good two way wing in Hunter, they have a star two way guard. None of the starters was shooting well, but not sure if this is what is killing them. Bench is perhaps a bit weak, but not bad either. One more season, and management realises Young is the problem, imho, because you just can't build a credible defense with him on the roster.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: TDL past, time to look forward! - omahen - 04-10-2023
(04-10-2023, 11:21 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: The strategy should be:
The team you constructed is worse than the current one, imho. Vucevic is a terrible fit next to Luka and Irving. Philly will not just give up McDaniels for Bullock. Reed is far from starter material, Mo Wagner and Mykhailuk are not contender level reserves. All have been in the league long enough we can be pretty sure about that.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: TDL past, time to look forward! - Chicagojk - 04-10-2023
Would you give up a future first for Avidja? I think he is the type of player we will need to look at. Younger player who has not broken through yet.
as far as some low cost gambles here are a few (i really haven't researched these yet, but are guys who have been mostly disappointing)
Chuma Okeke
Mo Bamba- Good chance his 10 million contract is not picked up
Jaxon Hayes
EJ Liddell--Not sure what his deal with regarding his injury or contract
Trey Lyles- May be above our price range
Neemias Queta
Just a few names, but it would be great to hit on a guy at this level. Even if it was a bandaid fix.
Chimezie Metu
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: TDL past, time to look forward! - Chicagojk - 04-10-2023
(04-10-2023, 12:04 PM)omahen Wrote: Certainly an interesting player. But I think Atlanta would prefer to move Capela and keep Okongwu.
Atlanta has a bunch of interesting players but the overall result is bad for a second season in a row, even after adding the perfect partner for Young in Murray. What could they even do to construct better around him other than bringing in 4 all star players? Perhaps Collins is not the best fit, but other than that you really can't do much better. Looking at starters, they have a good defensive center, they have a good two way wing in Hunter, they have a star two way guard. None of the starters was shooting well, but not sure if this is what is killing them. Bench is perhaps a bit weak, but not bad either. One more season, and management realises Young is the problem, imho, because you just can't build a credible defense with him on the roster.
Atlanta has a really interesting offseason ahead of them. Do they finally bite the bullet on Johns Collins and move him? They have several young players who should start getting more playing time, but they are blocked. Deandre Hunter is starting a 4 year contract for a 100 million. That is Jalen Brunson money! Saddiq Bey will be looking for a contract extension. And they have two mid firsts in Jalen Johnson and AJ Griffin who they need to give some time to.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: TDL past, time to look forward! - SwisherPrice - 04-10-2023
Paul Reed and Metu would be very good pick-ups. Dominick Barlow impressed me in the Spurs game yesterday. He was on a 2-way this season. Spurs probably offer him a full contract but he does play the same position as Sochan so maybe they don't retain Barlow, especially depending on their draft pick.
If Kyrie leaves then I'd be tempted to offer big money to Naz Reid
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: TDL past, time to look forward! - omahen - 04-10-2023
(04-10-2023, 12:20 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: Would you give up a future first for Avidja?
Not an unprotected one or #10, which Mavs are only able to trade.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: TDL past, time to look forward! - ItsGoTime - 04-10-2023
(04-10-2023, 12:38 PM)omahen Wrote: Not an unprotected one or #10, which Mavs are only able to trade.I think the trade I proposed in Gafford, Avdija and a SRP for Maxi, McGee and 27 unprotected is on par value.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: TDL past, time to look forward! - omahen - 04-10-2023
(04-10-2023, 12:58 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: I think the trade I proposed in Gafford, Avdija and a SRP for Maxi, McGee and 27 unprotected is on par value.
I don't think you trade a #10 pick for two average players. Not even sure if they are average.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: TDL past, time to look forward! - ItsGoTime - 04-10-2023
(04-10-2023, 01:20 PM)omahen Wrote: I don't think you trade a #10 pick for two average players. Not even sure if they are average.Not trading the 23, trading the 27. It is unprotected, but the package we’re getting back plus moving McGee is worth it IMO.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: TDL past, time to look forward! - Mavs2021 - 04-10-2023
Like the desperate news out of Portland and Washington. That suddenly opens up two new Kyrie destinations.
Simons/Nurkic/#5 for Kyrie.
Kuzma/Gafford/Avdija/Morris/#6 for Kyrie.
I like that 2nd trade to be honest.
Doncic/Morris
Green/Hardy
Bullock/Avdija
Kuzma/Kleber
Gafford/Reed
plus the #6 and #10 picks, plus the 2027 pick. That is a lot of draft capital. I think you can easily get Lavine or DeRozan for that.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: TDL past, time to look forward! - MaxiThreeba - 04-10-2023
(04-10-2023, 01:54 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: Like the desperate news out of Portland and Washington. That suddenly opens up two new Kyrie destinations.
Simons/Nurkic/#5 for Kyrie.
Kuzma/Gafford/Avdija/Morris/#6 for Kyrie.
I like that 2nd trade to be honest.
Doncic/Morris
Green/Hardy
Bullock/Avdija
Kuzma/Kleber
Gafford/Reed
plus the #6 and #10 picks, plus the 2027 pick. That is a lot of draft capital. I think you can easily get Lavine or DeRozan for that.
I think the Mavs wind up keeping Kyrie as I don't know if they can extract the value out of a SnT.
That said, it would be interesting what Toronto thought about Kai. OG or Pascal to Portland would be a splash move. Kyrie would give the Raptors an elite lead guard to team with Trent, OG/Pascal, Scottie and Poeltl.
An opted in VanVleet and Nurkic would give the salary needed and address PG and C. The real question then is what/if any additional value could the Mavs pull from that framework. Would Bullock or THJ have any value to a Portland team finally going all in for Dame in a secondary deal that is really part of the main deal? Simons, Sharpe, Achiuwa, maybe Reddish offer some young talent. Both teams have their 1st rounders as well I believe.
Really hard to know Kyrie's value around the league, and at the end of the day his value is probably greater to Dallas than in any SnT.