(06-27-2023, 02:59 PM)ThisIStheYear Wrote: Sure, that’s preferable, but would I rather have THJ and Holmes or Ayton plus a low paid end of bencher for the same money? I honestly don’t think THJ and Holmes have anything to offer by way of contributing to a championship team, so that’s an easy choice for me. The only pause I really have is whether Ayton would be a progress stopper for Lively, and I can almost talk myself into the idea of playing them together for 10 minutes so they both get starter minutes.  If that mythical flex is available, that’s great, otherwise, a young, talented, and athletic big for just Holmes and THJ, count me in.

(06-27-2023, 02:59 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: Valanciunas. Expiring and imho the best leader out o the bunch. Question is what does NO want?

(06-27-2023, 03:09 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: The Mavs were a Kevon Looney stopper away from going to the finals 2 years ago.

(06-27-2023, 03:05 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Is there any reason to believe that a 24 year old player is already declining and can never reach his peak level again? It´s a gamble NBA teams make all the time. That´s why I asked the questions below. Is it reasonable to assume that he can produce that level again on another team (new coach, system, teammates) or is his recent level all we can expect for the rest of his career?

(06-27-2023, 03:09 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Obviously wouldn´t give up any future assets but if all it takes is THJ, Bullock and McGee I would be tempted. Basically only leaves the last year of his contract as a big salary hit.

(06-27-2023, 03:16 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: I guarantee....

(06-27-2023, 03:10 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: Whatever New Orleans wants will undoubtedly be more expensive than what PHX can command for Ayton. 

And Ayton's production rivals Valanciunas pretty well.

(06-27-2023, 03:15 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: Honestly the guy I want the most this free agency is PJ Washington. Maybe you can do

THJ to Orlando
Isaac + Bullock + Denver 1st 2025 (from Orlando) + Mavs 2027 unprotected 1st.

Maybe the new Hornets owner doesn´t want to pay big and prefers flexibility.

I´d at least try.

(06-27-2023, 03:16 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: I guarantee I can come up with more examples of centers on the continual decline at 24yo than centers who were declining at 24yo and turned it around...

How do you think Vegas would handicap that?  Clearly it'd be more that he'll continue to decline than pull out of the nosedive.  So you're wanting to gamble $104m on an unenthused, unmotivated, grossly overpaid curmudgeon?  I hope you don't live near an Indian reservation.

(06-27-2023, 02:33 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: I've been saying this all along.  Why would we not only help them get out of their predicament, but then trade places into said predicament?

(06-27-2023, 03:30 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: More like 50-60m because salary is outgoing in the trade. Basically his last season in 25/26 and half of THJs salary in 24/25 if we can trust the proposed trade.
There is a chance that Ayton is who he is. A useful but overpaid big. Solid starter. Nothing more. That´s the floor. Making the gamble even less of a risk because no matter what happens the return isn´t zero. Even if things don´t work out and he never reaches his 20/21 level again he is more useful than THJ, Bullock or McGee.

(06-27-2023, 03:31 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: now I'm back stuck on figuring out how to get PJ Washington here.

(06-27-2023, 03:30 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: More like 50-60m because salary is outgoing in the trade. Basically his last season in 25/26 and half of THJs salary in 24/25 if we can trust the proposed trade.
There is a chance that Ayton is who he is. A useful but overpaid big. Solid starter. Nothing more. That´s the floor. Making the gamble even less of a risk because no matter what happens the return isn´t zero. Even if things don´t work out and he never reaches his 20/21 level again he is more useful than THJ, Bullock or McGee.

As far as my personal opinion goes. I am not the biggest Ayton fan but from an asset management perspective I can see why the Mavs would be interested. Compared to the level and value that he used to have it is an all time buy low opportunity.

(06-27-2023, 03:37 PM)cow Wrote: I can see the outcoming being framed as the same but what we are trading to get to that outcome is different.   Granted, Ayton isn't the quality of Durant or Beal, but our pu pu platter of outgoing assets isn't near the quality that Phoenix shipped out.

I don't like Ayton and don't particularly want him on the team, but if all it cost was THJ, Holmes and Reggie, I personally think Ayton is more valuable than that combined rotation.  

My guess is that the MBT/Phx discussion occurred before the draft and before we acquired Lively, which probably makes this entire discussion moot.

edit:  I'm also hate THJ (the player) so I have my bias.

(06-27-2023, 03:47 PM)Jmaciscool Wrote: This is where I'm landing too (for now).

I don't think it's moot though because if Holmes was included it would have been after the draft/Lively pick, right?

(06-27-2023, 03:38 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: Huh?  He's declining, not plateauing.  On his dejectory he'll be McGee in 3 years.  Did you see the playoff series this year?  He was benched for Landale.