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RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Collins to UTA for Gay+2nd| Mavs tried to trade for Ayton? - michaeltex - 06-27-2023
Timing question...
Are the Draft Day trades post-July 1st? Does any of that affect possible timing for a PHX trade or negotiating with FAs? I know sometimes things have to happen in a sequence so the money stays legit. With cap lines, tax lines, multiple tax apron's do you have to keep the accounting as you go or just see where everything lands when the dust settles?
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Collins to UTA for Gay+2nd| Mavs tried to trade for Ayton? - StrandedOnBeauboisHill - 06-27-2023
I am not super high on Ayton personally or that style of center but seeing as we just drafted a drop coverage center and signed one last season with the expectation to start him, I am not going to fight the fact that is the direction this team is embracing. Knowing they aren't going to try to build a roster with a big man that I'd be going after, I can start to talk myself into Ayton a little bit, especially if you are able to get him with that package and retain your MLE. I don't think that he'd get in the way of Lively's development all that much, Lively will still only be 22 by the time Ayton's contract is up and I don't see him developing into a top 10 center before then (although it would be great to be surprised by that). I also understand where mvossman is coming from with the worst case scenario of Ayton not being great and Lively showing up earlier than expected but if there's anything this league has taught me, it's that there's always a place to dump big contracts of younger players. I also think that we haven't noted the flip side of that scenario where BOTH of them look great in this system and how awesome of a problem that would be for us.
At the end of the day, I think I would prefer a different route than Ayton but at the same time...
Luka
Kyrie/Hardy
Green/Bullock
MLE/OMax
Ayton/Lively/Maxi
...is objectively much better than our rotation last year if they can use that MLE on Bruce Brown or Grant Williams (although MacMahon through a little bit of cold water on the Mavs being linked to him yesterday).
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Collins to UTA for Gay+2nd| Mavs tried to trade for Ayton? - cow - 06-27-2023
Double post
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Collins to UTA for Gay+2nd| Mavs tried to trade for Ayton? - SleepingHero - 06-27-2023
Quote:https://twitter.com/thenbacentral/status/1673719991609196546?s=46&t=Ofn9ihgBPdBFQJpnkEDS0A
NBACentral (@TheNBACentral)
The Rockets are heavily linked to Fred VanVleet and Dillon Brooks, per @JakeLFischer
https://twitter.com/thenbacentral/status/1673718298574311424?s=46&t=Ofn9ihgBPdBFQJpnkEDS0A
NBACentral (@TheNBACentral)
Norman Powell is available for trade, per @JakeLFischer
So, would you do a SnT for Norm Powell and CWood? Clips reportedly had interest at the TDL.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Collins to UTA for Gay+2nd| Mavs tried to trade for Ayton? - mvossman - 06-27-2023
(06-27-2023, 10:45 AM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: I am not super high on Ayton personally or that style of center but seeing as we just drafted a drop coverage center and signed one last season with the expectation to start him, I am not going to fight the fact that is the direction this team is embracing. Knowing they aren't going to try to build a roster with a big man that I'd be going after, I can start to talk myself into Ayton a little bit, especially if you are able to get him with that package and retain your MLE. I don't think that he'd get in the way of Lively's development all that much, Lively will still only be 22 by the time Ayton's contract is up and I don't see him developing into a top 10 center before then (although it would be great to be surprised by that). I also understand where mvossman is coming from with the worst case scenario of Ayton not being great and Lively showing up earlier than expected but if there's anything this league has taught me, it's that there's always a place to dump big contracts of younger players. I also think that we haven't noted the flip side of that scenario where BOTH of them look great in this system and how awesome of a problem that would be for us.
At the end of the day, I think I would prefer a different route than Ayton but at the same time...
Luka
Kyrie/Hardy
Green/Bullock
MLE/OMax
Ayton/Lively/Maxi
...is objectively much better than our rotation last year if they can use that MLE on Bruce Brown or Grant Williams (although MacMahon through a little bit of cold water on the Mavs being linked to him yesterday).
I'm not sure "drop coverage center" is the best way to describe Lively. He is known for being able to switch and guard the perimeter. That is a big part of his draw, that he appears mobile enough not to get run off the court.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Collins to UTA for Gay+2nd| Mavs tried to trade for Ayton? - StrandedOnBeauboisHill - 06-27-2023
(06-27-2023, 11:08 AM)mvossman Wrote: I'm not sure "drop coverage center" is the best way to describe Lively. He is known for being able to switch and guard the perimeter. That is a big part of his draw, that he appears mobile enough not to get run off the court.
Absolutely, that's fair, but being able to switch does not make him a switching big by any stretch of the imagination. I would bet good money that we're playing drop with him out there the same way he did at Duke. I would also say that "mobile enough" is how many around here would describe Ayton (I'm very much on the fence there though).
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Collins to UTA for Gay+2nd| Mavs tried to trade for Ayton? - DanSchwartzgan - 06-27-2023
(06-27-2023, 10:39 AM)michaeltex Wrote: Timing question...
Are the Draft Day trades post-July 1st? Does any of that affect possible timing for a PHX trade or negotiating with FAs? I know sometimes things have to happen in a sequence so the money stays legit. With cap lines, tax lines, multiple tax apron's do you have to keep the accounting as you go or just see where everything lands when the dust settles?
Been in meetings and about to start two more. No time to comment much other than…
Yes, draft day trades HAVE to be post July 1st. OKC doesn’t currently have cap room.
Phoenix trade can be Pre or Post July 1st depending on who is involved. Trade spreads for Phoenix change after 7/1 (probably 10% spread for Phoenix with them being over the first apron). But, after July 1st, Dallas has greater flexibility to take back salary because of the excess spread on the Bertans deal. This is only true (greater flexibility for Dallas) if Dallas also stays below the first apron (which might be why they want McGee included so badly…but I haven’t had time to do the math). The issue might also be a desire to preserve an option for adding another player to the squad if/when an Ayton deal is finalized. It would be an easy work around if we had seconds to throw around to move McGee to a third team.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Collins to UTA for Gay+2nd| Mavs tried to trade for Ayton? - RoyTarpleysGhost - 06-27-2023
(06-27-2023, 07:02 AM)Dundalis Wrote: Instead he focuses on his offense, and when he can't get the shots and type of shots he wants, his already lacking motivation drops off the scale completely. And the defense is an afterthought. His mentality and fit within a team structure is poor.
Well said
This is why I'd only be interested in Ayton if we were losing Kyrie. He'd have the #2 role on offense and hopefully be more engaged. With Kyrie here, I see the same problems he has had in Phoenix, being the #3 guy that doesnt get enough touches and drifts out of games.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Collins to UTA for Gay+2nd| Mavs tried to trade for Ayton? - Nowitzki Way - 06-27-2023
(06-27-2023, 11:01 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: So, would you do a SnT for Norm Powell and CWood? Clips reportedly had interest at the TDL.
I like Norman Powell, especially if we end up trading Hardaway.
Any asset we can get for CWood is a positive in my book.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24:HOU likes FVV+Brooks| Mavs tried to trade for Ayton? - DallasMaverick - 06-27-2023
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/37826718/nba-trade-grades-breaking-most-impactful-deals
A couple of pertinent quotes:
“In the wake of Collins capably filling a role as a floor-spacing power forward during that playoff run, making 36% of his 3s and 63.5% of his 2s while defending on the perimeter, he re-signed on a five-year deal worth $125 million that the Hawks have been trying to move almost from the second the ink dried.”
“That's the reality of building a team with a payroll in the luxury tax but not the results on the court to justify it. One of the regular themes of my trade analysis is that moves that look helpful when viewed strictly in terms of talent can be harmful financially because of the tough choices they force down the line. The Murray deal in particular had that effect here.”
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Collins to UTA for Gay+2nd| Mavs tried to trade for Ayton? - dirkfansince1998 - 06-27-2023
(06-27-2023, 11:20 AM)Nowitzki Way Wrote: I like Norman Powell, especially if we end up trading Hardaway.
Any asset we can get for CWood is a positive in my book.
Mavs have to think about the money. Assuming Kyrie resigns a Wood sign/trade means that they won´t have the full MLE. Could even get them close to or above the tax line.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Collins to UTA for Gay+2nd| Mavs tried to trade for Ayton? - cow - 06-27-2023
(06-27-2023, 11:41 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Mavs have to think about the money. Assuming Kyrie resigns a Wood sign/trade means that they won´t have the full MLE. Could even get them close to or above the tax line.
Tax line aside, would you rather have Powell or the potential of what you can get with the MLE?
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Collins to UTA for Gay+2nd| Mavs tried to trade for Ayton? - dirkfansince1998 - 06-27-2023
(06-27-2023, 11:47 AM)cow Wrote: Tax line aside, would you rather have Powell or the potential of what you can get with the MLE?
Difficult question. Would rather have guys like Grant Williams, Bruce Brown, Jalen McDaniels, or PJ Washington. But there is obviously no guarantee that the Mavs get one of them. Compared to the risk of missing out on the top MLE targets a trade like this is probably the better option.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Collins to UTA for Gay+2nd| Mavs tried to trade for Ayton? - StrandedOnBeauboisHill - 06-27-2023
(06-27-2023, 11:59 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Difficult question. Would rather have guys like Grant Williams, Bruce Brown, Jalen McDaniels, or PJ Washington. But there is obviously no guarantee that the Mavs get one of them. Compared to the risk of missing out on the top MLE targets a trade like this is probably the better option.
Agree with this. Also depends how the rest of this center rotation pans out based on recent rumors.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Collins to UTA for Gay+2nd| Mavs tried to trade for Ayton? - mvossman - 06-27-2023
(06-27-2023, 11:47 AM)cow Wrote: Tax line aside, would you rather have Powell or the potential of what you can get with the MLE?
Depends on what we could get for MLE. Powell is a negative defender. I like Timmy better as a player right now, but I understand this scenario is Timmy outgoing.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Collins to UTA for Gay+2nd| Mavs tried to trade for Ayton? - BigDirk41 - 06-27-2023
(06-27-2023, 11:47 AM)cow Wrote: Tax line aside, would you rather have Powell or the potential of what you can get with the MLE?
100% I want the Mavs to use the MLE. Offer Powell the minimum or he can walk.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Collins to UTA for Gay+2nd| Mavs tried to trade for Ayton? - ballsrchr - 06-27-2023
(06-27-2023, 12:22 PM)BigDirk41 Wrote: 100% I want the Mavs to use the MLE. Offer Powell the minimum or he can walk.
Yeah. I'm with this...
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Collins to UTA for Gay+2nd| Mavs tried to trade for Ayton? - mvossman - 06-27-2023
(06-27-2023, 12:22 PM)BigDirk41 Wrote: 100% I want the Mavs to use the MLE. Offer Powell the minimum or he can walk.
Wrong Powell. Cow is talking about a S&T of Wood for Norman Powell, which would kill the MLE.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Collins to UTA for Gay+2nd| Mavs tried to trade for Ayton? - SleepingHero - 06-27-2023
(06-27-2023, 11:47 AM)cow Wrote: Tax line aside, would you rather have Powell or the potential of what you can get with the MLE?
It depends I suppose. I'd rather have Norman over guys like Brooks, Grant Williams, and even Barnes.
But what about a guy like Josh Hart? DiVencenzo? Brook Lopez? Seth Curry? Heck even Caris Lavert.
It muddles the water a bit.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Collins to UTA for Gay+2nd| Mavs tried to trade for Ayton? - BigDirk41 - 06-27-2023
(06-27-2023, 12:41 PM)mvossman Wrote: Wrong Powell. Cow is talking about a S&T of Wood for Norman Powell, which would kill the MLE.
That Powell I can get on board with..lol. my bad