Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein-Ingram Trade Inevitable| LAL Want Lebron Back On Any Terms - Printable Version +- MavsBoard (https://www.mavsboard.com) +-- Forum: Boards (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=1) +--- Forum: Dallas Mavericks and the NBA (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=2) +--- Thread: Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein-Ingram Trade Inevitable| LAL Want Lebron Back On Any Terms (/showthread.php?tid=2444) Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
227
228
229
230
231
232
233
234
235
236
237
238
239
240
241
242
243
244
245
246
247
248
249
250
251
252
253
254
255
256
257
258
259
260
261
262
263
264
265
266
267
268
269
270
271
272
273
274
275
276
277
278
279
280
281
282
283
284
285
286
287
288
289
290
291
292
293
294
295
296
297
298
299
300
301
302
303
304
305
306
307
308
309
310
311
312
313
314
315
316
317
318
319
320
321
322
323
324
325
326
327
328
329
330
331
332
333
334
335
336
337
338
339
340
341
342
343
344
345
346
347
348
349
350
351
352
353
354
355
356
357
358
359
360
361
362
363
364
365
366
367
368
369
370
371
372
373
374
375
376
377
378
379
380
381
382
383
384
385
386
387
388
389
390
391
392
393
394
395
396
397
398
399
400
401
402
403
404
405
406
407
408
409
410
411
412
413
414
415
416
417
418
419
420
421
422
423
424
425
426
427
428
429
430
431
432
433
434
435
436
437
438
439
440
441
442
443
444
445
446
447
448
449
450
451
452
453
454
455
456
457
458
459
460
461
462
463
464
465
466
467
468
469
470
471
472
473
474
475
476
477
478
479
480
481
482
483
484
485
486
487
488
489
490
491
492
493
494
495
496
497
498
499
500
501
502
503
504
505
506
507
508
509
510
511
512
513
514
515
516
517
518
519
520
521
522
523
524
525
526
527
528
529
530
531
532
533
534
535
536
537
538
539
540
541
542
|
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Dame will take the week to think abt future| HOU likes Lopez - KillerLeft - 06-23-2023 (06-23-2023, 05:55 PM)RoyTarpleysGhost Wrote: I really hope you are wrong or this year is gonna be ugly. Not sure I can make it through and to the other side. Not sure our two superstars can either. What I'm suggesting is that if another WCF run is what it would take to make you (or those two stars, for that matter) happy, you simply weren't going to be happy. The team isn't fixable on any sort of short timeline, at least not with the assets available to the team. For me, the best thing they could possibly do is stop trying to accomplish the impossible and start to actually build a team. I don't feel as passionately as you seem to about Lively, specifically (you might be right) but I am soooooooo ready to stop caring about "winning now" and start acting like the team is being built around a 24 year old. (06-23-2023, 06:02 PM)RoyTarpleysGhost Wrote: Flip Kyrie for some young assets if that's the plan. Having him here on a rebuilding team is asking for trouble. I'd be more than fine with this. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Dame will take the week to think abt future| HOU likes Lopez - RoyTarpleysGhost - 06-23-2023 (06-23-2023, 06:02 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: What I'm suggesting is that if another WCF run is what it would take to make you (or those two stars, for that matter) happy, you simply weren't going to be happy. I see this team (+ say Grant Williams) as a 9-10 seed. I was hoping for a playoff team that is fighting for home court in the 1st rd. 4-6 seed Lets see what happens with the Mavs TV rights. I'm not planning to renew Fubo TV if this team is rebuilding. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Dame ponders| HOU likes Lopez| Warriors afraid Green to Kings? - dirkfansince1998 - 06-23-2023 Personally I think the new CBA forced their hand. Don´t think we would be looking at a roster with two first round picks if it wasn´t for it. Rookie contracts are more valuable than ever and it feels like all teams (even contenders) are trying to pick up cost controlled assets. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Dame ponders| HOU likes Lopez| Warriors afraid Green to Kings? - RoyTarpleysGhost - 06-23-2023 (06-23-2023, 06:07 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Personally I think the new CBA forced their hand. Don´t think we would be looking at a roster with two first round picks if it wasn´t for it. Rookie contracts are more valuable than ever and it feels like all teams (even contenders) are trying to pick up cost controlled assets. Who is doing this other than Denver? (a team that already has their championship rotation) Boston, Phoenix, Golden State, and Memphis all just traded for old and expensive players. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Dame will take the week to think abt future| HOU likes Lopez - Winter - 06-23-2023 (06-23-2023, 05:13 PM)mvossman Wrote: Big difference between rotational piece and starter. He should get as many minutes as he can without clearly hurting the team, but I don't know that it would be good for his development to throw him out there as a starter when he is not ready. It took him half a season last year to get adjusted to college ball. It will likely take at least that long at NBA level. I think a decision will be made after they see Lively in Summer league and gets a sense on how quickly he picks up the NBA game. Early reports are that both Lively and OMAX picked up the Maverick defensive schemes pretty quickly in pre-draft workouts. My guess is that Lively gets introduced to a few minutes a game right away. Other mid-first round picks have successfully negotiated the NBA game for rotation minutes (i.e., Walter Kessler) and caught on. I suspect the Mavs will give Lively that opportunity. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Dame ponders| HOU likes Lopez| Warriors afraid Green to Kings? - dirkfansince1998 - 06-23-2023 (06-23-2023, 06:11 PM)RoyTarpleysGhost Wrote: Who is doing this other than Denver? (a team that already has their championship rotation) Celtics received two 1sts in the KP trade. They traded down and turned this years pick into future assets. According to reports they targeted O-Max but the Mavs picked him one spot ahead of them. GS salary dumped Poole. Still kept this years pick. Same for the Heat and Lakers. Phoenix is all in. They have not future. Win now or bust. Probably the most radical all in move I have ever seen. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Dame ponders| HOU likes Lopez| Warriors afraid Green to Kings? - Branduil - 06-23-2023 So the current depth chart, assuming Kyrie is resigned: Luka / Hardy / ??? Kyrie / THJ / ??? Green / OMAX / Bullock ??? / Maxi Holmes / Lively / McGee We all know PF is the biggest area of need right now. Obviously Maxi can get some minutes there, but he'll also play some C, and he can't play effectively as a starter, and you've got OMAX and Luka playing some there too, but you want some kind of defense-oriented starter, at least for now. A backup PG would probably be a good idea as well. McGee and Bullock seem like the most likely trade candidates, although THJ is possible in the right circumstances. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Dame ponders| HOU likes Lopez| Warriors afraid Green to Kings? - BigDirk41 - 06-23-2023 Nico said he expects both draft picks to play immediately because of their defense and because they don't need the ball. He seems excited about both picks. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Dame ponders| HOU likes Lopez| Warriors afraid Green to Kings? - Okstate819 - 06-23-2023 (06-23-2023, 07:54 PM)Branduil Wrote: So the current depth chart, assuming Kyrie is resigned: If a legit starter is the goal, these are the names to look at. Level of interest varies with each but I would assume s&t would be needed for any of them. Harrison Barnes PJ Washington (RFA) Jerami Grant Kyle Kuzma Grant Williams (RFA) Or you could still do THJ and Bullock for Collins I suppose RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Dame ponders| HOU likes Lopez| Warriors afraid Green to Kings? - Branduil - 06-23-2023 I still like Jerami Grant. Not sure how available he is, I suppose a lot depends on what Portland decides to do with Dame. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Dame ponders| HOU likes Lopez| Warriors afraid Green to Kings? - MarkAguirreWrathofGod - 06-23-2023 Jerami Grant would be a great fit. Have heard he’s looking for the neighborhood of 30 million. If Portland blows it up could we do THJ, McGee, Bullock and unprotected 2027? Lively, Grant, Green (extended), Luka, Kyrie. Holmes, Powell, Maxi, Hardy, Omax, BAE. Bench is thin even with Hardy making another leap and OMAX panning out. Lively would have to reach “defensive stud, 25-30 minutes per game,” by year two or three assuming the Kyrie/Luka window is 3-4 years max. That’s with relying on an aging Maxi as crucial depth. Hard to see it. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Dame ponders| HOU likes Lopez| Warriors afraid Green to Kings? - Branduil - 06-23-2023 (06-23-2023, 11:13 PM)MarkAguirreWrathofGod Wrote: Jerami Grant would be a great fit. Have heard he’s looking for the neighborhood of 30 million. If Portland blows it up could we do THJ, McGee, Bullock and unprotected 2027? Lively, Grant, Green (extended), Luka, Kyrie. Holmes, Powell, Maxi, Hardy, Omax, BAE. Bench is thin even with Hardy making another leap and OMAX panning out. Lively would have to reach “defensive stud, 25-30 minutes per game,” by year two or three assuming the Kyrie/Luka window is 3-4 years max. That’s with relying on an aging Maxi as crucial depth. Hard to see it. Luka / Hardy Kyrie / ??? Green / OMAX Grant / Maxi Holmes / Lively / Powell That's 10 guys, I wouldn't really call that thin. You'd want another guard though. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Dame will take the week to think abt future| HOU likes Lopez - SleepingHero - 06-23-2023 (06-23-2023, 04:50 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: The issue you're running into with Wood talk is that other than you, everyone here, even his most ardent supporters (among whom I numbered at one point) feel like there has been an avalanche of signals from both the player and the team that they didn't enjoy collaborating professionally last season. I don't know that bringing him back will be considered, even in the event that there literally isn't a good alternative. You wrote this better than I could have. Excellent synopsis on why I think Wood's time as a Maverick has ended for good. Now regarding that Kuzma alternative, I agree he's about to leave Washington. Problem is I think he's looking for a big payday. I mean BIG. I assume that's going to be a 4 year deal starting a minimum of 30 a year. No way the Mavs can get there, but even if they could would you even want to pursue Kuzma at that point? The guy they should be targeting at the 4 should be Hachimura. His RFA status makes it a tricky pursuit. I think a starting deal for MLE money is one Lakers easily match. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Dame ponders| HOU likes Lopez| Warriors afraid Green to Kings? - cow - 06-23-2023 I don't understand anyone's desire for Kuzma. If he gets anywhere near his asking price, that contract will quickly turn into regret. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Dame ponders| HOU likes Lopez| Warriors afraid Green to Kings? - Jym - 06-23-2023 (06-23-2023, 11:42 PM)cow Wrote: I don't understand anyone's desire for Kuzma. If he gets anywhere near his asking price, that contract will quickly turn into regret. The numbers on Basketball Reference are oh so bad. And they pass the eye test. He's not a winning player RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Dame ponders| HOU likes Lopez| Warriors afraid Green to Kings? - Branduil - 06-24-2023 Yeah I mean if you're going to pay that much for a PF I think Grant would be the better option. Much better percentages and he's actually played on a winning team before. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Dame ponders| HOU likes Lopez| Warriors afraid Green to Kings? - SleepingHero - 06-24-2023 (06-23-2023, 06:11 PM)RoyTarpleysGhost Wrote: Who is doing this other than Denver? (a team that already has their championship rotation) Phoenix went all in true. GSW sent Poole packing and got CP3 who will be cheaper this year and saves them from 3 years of max Poole money. Memphis got their Dillon Brooks replacement so it's a net neutral cost to them. SAC just traded someone for free at the cost of a FRP. ATL was trying their hardest to move off of Collins and no one bit. (06-24-2023, 12:08 AM)Branduil Wrote: Yeah I mean if you're going to pay that much for a PF I think Grant would be the better option. Much better percentages and he's actually played on a winning team before. I would LOVE Jerami Grant. Like Kuzma though, I think he's going to command well close to 30 mil a year. At that price I'd much rather just get a smaller tier guy and wait for 2025+2027 to be unlocked and go all in for a true star wing at that point. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Dame ponders| HOU likes Lopez| Warriors afraid Green to Kings? - Branduil - 06-24-2023 I think a lot depends on what they think Green can be this year. Right before the Kyrie trade it looked like he was close to being able to become that third guy, but then he took a big step back during the Kyrie + Luka mess. It's difficult to know how much of that was just part of the disastrous collapse that consumed the whole team. IF Green (and Hardy) are ready to step up, it puts less pressure on the team to get a high-priced PF. But that's a big if. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Dame ponders| HOU likes Lopez| Warriors afraid Green to Kings? - KillerLeft - 06-24-2023 (06-23-2023, 11:42 PM)cow Wrote: I don't understand anyone's desire for Kuzma. If he gets anywhere near his asking price, that contract will quickly turn into regret. Totally agree. Just know that Pavel has been pining after him for a long while and it’s seemingly more possible than I originally thought. I was guilty of dismissing his idea outright a few months back. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Dame will take the week to think abt future| HOU likes Lopez - Dundalis - 06-24-2023 (06-23-2023, 06:47 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: You also get Gafford, who is just 24 years old. You basically set at C for the next five year paying 17M to Gafford/Lively. Kuzma is a good scorer and passer, which we lack in the front court with Wood gone. i´m not that attached to Kuzma. I want Gafford. He seems the perfect Hayward to Lively´s Tyson. Don't agree. You don't get to be a good scorer by jacking up shots and putting up lots of points by virtue of volume. You need to be efficient. He's a good scorer like Westbrook was a good scorer. Not the scoring I want on this team. He's a good passer, but even there he feels like he's from the Westbrook style of passing. Feels empty. When you talk about empty stats guys, Kuzma is one of the guys that fits that exact profile. (06-23-2023, 07:20 AM)Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo Wrote: So basically, the small 5s, the 4s and bigger 3s that could be available are: If I'm giving up a bunch of assets and an unprotected first, I'd rather keep THJ over Kuzma. Efficiency wise they are about the same, THJ has had multiple seasons above 55% TS unlike Kuzma. Plus Kuzma will be expecting to start, THJ you can play off the bench. Kuzma's playmaking is not near enough to make up for his volume low efficiency chucking, and bad defense. And yes he is a bad defender. Last season with the Wizards, the positive about him was that he showed effort defensively, unlike most of the rest of their roster. The problem was he was still bad despite that. As most Wizards fans will tell you. I don't want a player like Kuzma as the third offensive option, and I don't want a third starter on this team who can't play defense. Luka and Kyrie need to be surrounded with defensive specialists. if he reverts to the role player he was his last year in LA, which is how he should be utilized off the bench, it's more useful for this team, but his value for that role is not what we would be giving up. You should be able to get a better return than this giving up our FRP. A third ball handler in the starting lineup is less of an issue if this team is much improved defensively, because its not incumbent upon the offense alone to drive the team to wins. (06-23-2023, 07:27 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: On to Kyrie’s signing. I really think $40M is the right starting money. That gets him a $2M raise from this year’s money, puts him on par with Luka’s contract (I really don’t think this is much of a big deal at all) and gives us a path to getting at least the MLE to use (BAE would be a lot tougher without more money saving deals). What do you mean the best we could hope for? Kyrie has NO leverage. I offer him 3 max. If Kyrie says no, what's he gonna do? He can whine and moan, but he doesn't have options. No one with max cap space is giving him a 4+ year max deal. I'd start with 1+1 as opener then offer him 2 years with a team option for a 3rd, and he can take it or leave it, and see if he can find a team with max cap space thats not a bottom feeder, but will actually want to spend max money on a 30 year old headcase PG for 4-5 years. I think he will have the same luck as Wood getting the money he wants. I actually think this team could do fine without Kyrie. Depending on further acquisition's I think this team could be better than the one that went to the WCF. People acting like this team is done if Kyrie doesn't sign seem to be missing that we were on a contending trajectory without him. If he doesn't want to take a shorter term deal, if we could swing a S&T, I'd be completely good with that, even if the return aren't ideal fits. It would likely be assets we could more easily flip down the line. I love the fact that Cuban and Nico are making sure they state that despite wanting Kyrie, we will be fine either way. To me means they are not just gonna give Kyrie what he wants. |