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+--- Thread: Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein-Ingram Trade Inevitable| LAL Want Lebron Back On Any Terms (/showthread.php?tid=2444)
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RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: KOC- Mavs favs for Horford? McMahon disputes| BOS likes KP? - KillerLeft - 06-21-2023
(06-21-2023, 06:27 PM)mvossman Wrote: Agree (in hindsight) that deal for KP was the point for reset.
Don't agree that if KP was good, the Wizards would be good. Luka played at MVP level and Mavs didn't even make the playoffs. The Wiz have a few decent players but Beal is a shell of his former self. Nobody is calling KP a star, but he is better than what he was here (after the first year). He just didn't fit, particularly with Luka.
I’m just making the general (and correct, I believe) point that it’s easy to take players who put up numbers on losing teams too seriously. It’s not that Porziņģis would have to be the best player on a good team to win my respect for his game, but it would be nice if he had any history of being the second or third best player on a good team.
I think there are scads of players in the pro game who feel they should be featured and are talented enough to make that a plausible direction. Once they get their shot, the team has to win to validate that direction. If it doesn’t work, they need to do what everyone else does: learn how to support someone else who’s actually worthy of inclusion in the league’s top 1%. I’m not sure if it’s all ability, or if there is some sort of mindset/ego block with Porziņģis, but to me, it seems like he is now a failure on both of those levels. I flatly would not want him on the team I followed.
You brought up Luka, for example. Remember when we were all trying to talk ourselves into the idea that Dennis Smith Jr. was a legit NBA prospect, only to see Luka drop in and completely transform the team overnight? Then, they made the playoffs the very next year? That’s max player impact, to me.
And I’ll go you one further: Luka put up great numbers again this past season, but I vehemently disagree that he played at an MVP level. I think it was maybe his worst season, so far, except for his rookie year when they were finding his role. The crap where he doesn’t get back on defense was at an all-time high, his passion for the game seemed to be at an all time low (he even said as much in the media) and I absolutely believe his uninspired play was one of the primary reasons for the team’s slippage. Maybe it was because of the crappy off-season where Brunson was allowed to walk without so much as a competitive offer… Maybe it was because he is already completely over Cuban hanging around like a useless jock sniffer… I don’t know. Just saying, that was not his best.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: KOC- Mavs favs for Horford? McMahon disputes| BOS likes KP? - Scott41theMavs - 06-21-2023
(06-21-2023, 07:26 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: And I’ll go you one further: Luka put up great numbers again this past season, but I vehemently disagree that he played at an MVP level. I think it was maybe his worst season, so far, except for his rookie year when they finding his role. The crap where he doesn’t get back on defense was at an all-time high, his passion for the game seemed to be at an all time low (he even said as much in the media) and I absolutely believe his uninspired play was one of the primary reasons for the team’s slippage. Maybe it was because of the crappy off-season where Brunson was allowed to walk without so much as a competitive offer… Maybe it was because he is already completely over Cuban hanging around like a useless jock sniffer… I don’t know. Just saying, that was not his best.
Well-said.
If he was miffed about Brunson and what it said about the front office, then that's actually easier to swallow than what I'm concerned his quote was about. I presumed it was being upset that Kyrie consistently wouldn't give him the ball in the fourth quarter.
I get that Kyrie is more clutch in the fourth. But you have a generational talent who thrives on being the hero. He'd better get 60% of the shots in the last four minutes of the game at least.
Weren't Dodo and Jalen his best friends on the team as well? That would sure contribute to it "not being fun anymore."
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: KOC- Mavs favs for Horford? McMahon disputes| BOS likes KP? - Jakeospikez - 06-21-2023
KP was definitely an elite rim protector here. Something that doesn't show up on the stat sheet is how many times guards drove into the paint and noped their way back out/passed out to the perimeter instead of getting a layup. If someone had access to some stat for team layups/dunks surrendered or something it's likely way less anytime KP was in. The block numbers were elite before the injury too. His problems were mostly about being a max contract player, made of glass, and not accepting his role. Demanded a certain number of possessions run through him with his post ups instead of through Luka, fine china so didn't want to set hard screens, roll, and bang down low. He's a great rim protecting stretch 5 but since he's a max contract player he wants to be a lot more than just that roleplayer. He started playing a lot more risk averse cause he is young and wants to get more max contracts instead of more knee injuries. If the Mavs can find someone similar to KP without the max contract and aversion to contact then the 5 position may finally be solved. Also, don't think he fit Kidd's blitz scheme. We'll see if they plan on continuing to use it or if they go with traditional bigs with the moves they make the next couple weeks.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: KOC- Mavs favs for Horford? McMahon disputes| BOS likes KP? - cow - 06-21-2023
If nothing else, it will be curious to see what the Wizards can extract from Boston for KP. A tale of two front offices.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: KOC- Mavs favs for Horford? McMahon disputes| BOS likes KP? - KillerLeft - 06-21-2023
(06-21-2023, 08:27 PM)cow Wrote: If nothing else, it will be curious to see what the Wizards can extract from Boston for KP. A tale of two front offices.
This will be interesting, I agree.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: KOC- Mavs favs for Horford? McMahon disputes| BOS likes KP? - DanSchwartzgan - 06-21-2023
Fischer reporting tonight SA wants to acquire a second lotto pick to draft B-Coul (just made that up…I’m sure no one has ever thought of it).
Others can argue about players and picks. I just want to point out (especially in light of the Grant Williams rumor), that one benefit of dealing with SA is they have cap room now and part of the compensation of any deal with them (besides players and picks) is getting them to take extra salary that creates a TE that G-Will can be traded into.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: KOC- Mavs favs for Horford? McMahon disputes| BOS likes KP? - MarkAguirreWrathofGod - 06-21-2023
Great detective work D-Coul! ?
Hope this is still part of a trade down, and not trade OUT of the draft.
I like Grant Williams fit here, but I would want more than a salary dump and the privilege of overpaying Grant Williams out of this. Would that entail roping in a third team? Maybe they send us Branham and Barlow the young big? Zach Collins?
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: KOC- Mavs favs for Horford? McMahon disputes| BOS likes KP? - Scott41theMavs - 06-21-2023
(06-21-2023, 09:05 PM)MarkAguirreWrathofGod Wrote: Great detective work D-Coul! ?
Hope this is still part of a trade down, and not trade OUT of the draft.
I like Grant Williams fit here, but I would want more than a salary dump and the privilege of overpaying Grant Williams out of this. Would that entail roping in a third team? Maybe they send us Branham and Barlow the young big? Zach Collins?
If we're trading out, my deal is 10 + Bertans for 1) either Sochan or Vassell, 2) #33, and 3) future considerations.
If they refuse to put Sochan and/or Vassell on the table, and they're dumb enough to make a deal with someone below us, and if the top nine goes top nine, I draft Coulibaly at 10 just to spite that mean old Pop. He's probably worth it if Pop wants him.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: KOC- Mavs favs for Horford? McMahon disputes| BOS likes KP? - Chicagojk - 06-21-2023
Is that Nico music? LOL
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1671705108906688513?s=46&t=iwQP5yZoJF3Ulzfb9MH7Cg
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: KOC- Mavs favs for Horford? McMahon disputes| BOS likes KP? - RoyTarpleysGhost - 06-21-2023
Keldon or Vassell for #10 and Bertans seems unrealistic. If that's available on draft night, that's a no brainer.
(06-21-2023, 09:24 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: Is that Nico music? LOL
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1671705108906688513?s=46&t=iwQP5yZoJF3Ulzfb9MH7Cg
Oh snap
Before anyone gets excited, three team KP trade fell apart (since we cant embed tweets)
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: KOC- Mavs favs for Horford? McMahon disputes| BOS likes KP? - cow - 06-21-2023
(06-21-2023, 08:59 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Fischer reporting tonight SA wants to acquire a second lotto pick to draft B-Coul (just made that up…I’m sure no one has ever thought of it).
Others can argue about players and picks. I just want to point out (especially in light of the Grant Williams rumor), that one benefit of dealing with SA is they have cap room now and part of the compensation of any deal with them (besides players and picks) is getting them to take extra salary that creates a TE that G-Will can be traded into.
#SendBertansHomeToPop
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: KOC- Mavs favs for Horford? McMahon disputes| BOS likes KP? - MarkAguirreWrathofGod - 06-21-2023
No way we are getting Sochan or Vassel from SA. Keldon, maybe. But we might have to add some value. And they would really have to want that #10 pick.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: KOC- Mavs favs for Horford? McMahon disputes| BOS likes KP? - Ghost of Podkolzin - 06-21-2023
(06-21-2023, 08:59 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Fischer reporting tonight SA wants to acquire a second lotto pick to draft B-Coul (just made that up…I’m sure no one has ever thought of it).
Others can argue about players and picks. I just want to point out (especially in light of the Grant Williams rumor), that one benefit of dealing with SA is they have cap room now and part of the compensation of any deal with them (besides players and picks) is getting them to take extra salary that creates a TE that G-Will can be traded into.
I'd rather Zach Collins than Grant Williams. Much better defender. $7.7m is prob a little more than half what Williams will cost.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: KOC- Mavs favs for Horford? McMahon disputes| BOS likes KP? - DanSchwartzgan - 06-21-2023
(06-21-2023, 10:29 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: I'd rather Zach Collins than Grant Williams. Much better defender. $7.7m is prob a little more than half what Williams will cost.
Why not both. You trade McGee for Collins which creates a little more cap room for SA. Reggie's $5.4mm guarantee and Bertans into cap space and create a $22mm TE that Boston trades Williams into (Williams doesn't get all of it).
Dallas gets a vet player in Collins, has the ability to take on a player without sending outgoing salary and probably ends up with 33 and SA's worst first next year.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: KOC- Mavs favs for Horford? McMahon disputes| BOS likes KP? - SkenfromLMF - 06-21-2023
KP for Smart being reported as a 2nd option, Memphis gets Smart
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: KOC- Mavs favs for Horford? McMahon disputes| BOS likes KP? - MarkAguirreWrathofGod - 06-21-2023
Interesting stuff Dan. If I’m Dallas, that’s still probably not quite enough value for me. It’s close though. Just think if SA is hot for the pick, I want more than that. We are giving a rotation piece in Reggie. Would this trade give us access to the Full MLE if we also signed Kyrie starting at Luka’s $? Or does Grant Williams into TPE slot negate that?
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: KOC- Mavs favs for Horford? McMahon disputes| BOS likes KP? - MarkAguirreWrathofGod - 06-21-2023
I really like Zach Collins btw. Fan of his since Gonzaga. One of the “rare birds” that can both protect the rim and space the floor.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: KOC- Mavs favs for Horford? McMahon disputes| BOS likes KP? - soog - 06-21-2023
(06-21-2023, 11:02 PM)SkenfromLMF Wrote: KP for Smart being reported as a 2nd option, Memphis gets Smart
Memphis giving up 2 FRPs (2023 and 2024) for Smart
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: KOC- Mavs favs for Horford? McMahon disputes| BOS likes KP? - SleepingHero - 06-21-2023
(06-21-2023, 02:46 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: The mods might want to re-edit the thread title again... unless it was a SH troll to begin with, of course.
I am an idiot please ignore me
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: BOS likes KP - Jakeospikez - 06-22-2023
Is Grant Williams actually seen as starter quality? If he makes around $16-17m/year+ like suggested here that's starter money. Starting PF? Is he not a downgrade from what DFS was for us? Bulky wing but smaller and not overly athletic. Quality roleplayer though for sure.