(01-30-2020, 05:37 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: RoCo's an elite defender. If Mavs can get him without giving up DFS that would be ideal. I might give up DFS to get him, not sure if the Mavs will pull the trigger on such a deal tho. Do love me some RoCo.

(01-30-2020, 05:42 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote:

(01-30-2020, 05:37 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: RoCo's an elite defender. If Mavs can get him without giving up DFS that would be ideal. I might give up DFS to get him, not sure if the Mavs will pull the trigger on such a deal tho. Do love me some RoCo.

DFS has strong positive value as a contributor on a very small and locked-in contract. I would rather keep him. If he were part of a RoCo deal, I would not include any other sweeteners (i.e. Wright, Brunson, the GSW 2nd) - just something like Lee, Jackson, and DFS (and perhaps a long-term 2nd) for RoCo.

(01-30-2020, 05:04 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: It´s getting old to respond to people that have strong opinions but nothing to back them up. Last season... after the RoCo trade a bottom 5 Minnesota defense suddenly was a top 5 defense. But I guess that´s only because they added Dario Saric as well.
He wasn´t great early in the season but is back to his former self now.

Might want to educate yourself...

(01-30-2020, 07:51 PM)Fuerza1 Wrote:

(01-30-2020, 05:04 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: It´s getting old to respond to people that have strong opinions but nothing to back them up. Last season... after the RoCo trade a bottom 5 Minnesota defense suddenly was a top 5 defense. But I guess that´s only because they added Dario Saric as well.
He wasn´t great early in the season but is back to his former self now.

Might want to educate yourself...

I expect all the Covington groupies to ignore this but it is actually y'all who need the education. Let me introduce you to something called context.

Your Pulitzer Prize winning article was written 10 games into Covington's Timberwolf career. Talk about premature ejaculation. 

What you failed to consider was the other 12 games Covington played afterwards before his season ended: Minnesota dropped from a top 5 defense all the way to 26th!!!! 

I thought he was DPOY worthy? Why'd they fall so far down? It's not rocket science, Covington is not a DPOY worthy player; he is not even elite.

Don't let the DRPM and media love fool y'all. I know it's too late for that but I thought I would at least try.

(01-30-2020, 08:22 PM)TXBamanut Wrote: In all fairness....
1)  I don't think he makes or breaks a defense...because there are other people on the floor that have to defend.
2)  He gained his defensive reputation in Philly, first, not only in Minnesota.
3)  First you say "10 games is too short a sample", and then you try to make your argument on 12 games.  You are kind of doing the same thing that you accuse the article's author of doing.  So which is it?

It looks like both of you guys have decided what you are going to believe, and then you are just reaching for the stats that support what you are going to believe no matter what.

For example...The "who care about DRPM?" sentiment....  I bet you would all of a sudden be the biggest proponent of DRPM if it rated RoCo as a bad defendIer.

(01-30-2020, 09:15 PM)Fuerza1 Wrote: Trying to shed light onto the Covington = DPOY, elite 3/D player. Many believe he is can't miss, game changing talent to take the Mavs to the next level. I ain't buying it but that is just my opinion.

(01-30-2020, 11:07 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: The fact of the matter is that long, rangy wings who can play excellent D and hit the three at a high percentage (including the guys who can also create their own shots, like Lebron and Kawhi, who are therefore all-stars) are 1) the most coveted commodity in the league, and also 2) right now rarer than they've been in the last 10 years or so. They're hard to get - partly because it seems as though the Clippers have half of them on their roster. In any event, RoCo is very justifiably a valuable commodity. I think the truth is that the Mavs don't have anything in their asset chest that will land him.

(01-30-2020, 07:51 PM)Fuerza1 Wrote:

(01-30-2020, 05:04 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: It´s getting old to respond to people that have strong opinions but nothing to back them up. Last season... after the RoCo trade a bottom 5 Minnesota defense suddenly was a top 5 defense. But I guess that´s only because they added Dario Saric as well.
He wasn´t great early in the season but is back to his former self now.

Might want to educate yourself...

I expect all the Covington groupies to ignore this but it is actually y'all who need the education. Let me introduce you to something called context.

Your Pulitzer Prize winning article was written 10 games into Covington's Timberwolf career. Talk about premature ejaculation. 

What you failed to consider was the other 12 games Covington played afterwards before his season ended: Minnesota dropped from a top 5 defense all the way to 26th!!!! 

I thought he was DPOY worthy? Why'd they fall so far down? It's not rocket science, Covington is not a DPOY worthy player; he is not even elite.

Don't let the DRPM and media love fool y'all. I know it's too late for that but I thought I would at least try.

(01-31-2020, 02:39 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Just make a legit case to back up your opinion. Do some research. Watch some tape and find something. So far you have nothing. It´s all opinon and if someone questions it you follow it up by even more opinion and troll attempts.

Nice of you to ignore the DFS at the same age comparisation because it doesn´t fit your agenda.

I am not letting anyting fool me. I see him play. I see his boxscore numbers. I see his impact metrics. All indicate that he was at least among the 10 best defenders in the last 5 seasons.
I picked the mentioned article because it isn´t just mentioning RoCo as a great defender but goes in to detail why he is among the best in the league. But I guess reading more than 3 sentences was to much to ask. Short summary. Help defense, rotations, his ability to read and pick passing lanes.

You haven´t made a single valid point that counters his team leading +/- numbers. Or adressed his incredible boxscore production. In the entire history of the league 16 players averaged 2stls/1blk. RoCo is one of them. He is among the league leaders in stls and deflections every single year.

But let me continue. Him ranking in the top 5 in DRPM in the last few years obviously isn´t enough to convince you. But thankfully we have more impact metrics.
Adjusted for minutes played he ranks 10th in multi year D-PIMP. Again as the 1st non big on the list. Still not enough. He ranks 5th in multi year DRAPM (2014-2019). And do I even have to say it obviously is the best non big.

And yes he wasn´t as good as he used to be earlier in the season. Not a big suprise for a player that came back from a season ending knee injury. He was slow and lacked mobility. That´s not the case anymore. He is back to his former self and does his best to anchor a mediocre Minnesota defense. That´s obviously not easy because he shares the floor with two of the worst defenders in the league (Towns and Wiggins).

Two options. His teams being a lot better with him on the floor is a 5-year long fluke. All impact metrics are completly wrong. His boxscore numbers are fake.
OR...forums/chats/boards always have one random troll that thinks he is the smartest guy in the room.

(01-31-2020, 10:09 AM)Fuerza1 Wrote:

(01-31-2020, 02:39 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Just make a legit case to back up your opinion. Do some research. Watch some tape and find something. So far you have nothing. It´s all opinon and if someone questions it you follow it up by even more opinion and troll attempts.

Nice of you to ignore the DFS at the same age comparisation because it doesn´t fit your agenda.

I am not letting anyting fool me. I see him play. I see his boxscore numbers. I see his impact metrics. All indicate that he was at least among the 10 best defenders in the last 5 seasons.
I picked the mentioned article because it isn´t just mentioning RoCo as a great defender but goes in to detail why he is among the best in the league. But I guess reading more than 3 sentences was to much to ask. Short summary. Help defense, rotations, his ability to read and pick passing lanes.

You haven´t made a single valid point that counters his team leading +/- numbers. Or adressed his incredible boxscore production. In the entire history of the league 16 players averaged 2stls/1blk. RoCo is one of them. He is among the league leaders in stls and deflections every single year.

But let me continue. Him ranking in the top 5 in DRPM in the last few years obviously isn´t enough to convince you. But thankfully we have more impact metrics.
Adjusted for minutes played he ranks 10th in multi year D-PIMP. Again as the 1st non big on the list. Still not enough. He ranks 5th in multi year DRAPM (2014-2019). And do I even have to say it obviously is the best non big.

And yes he wasn´t as good as he used to be earlier in the season. Not a big suprise for a player that came back from a season ending knee injury. He was slow and lacked mobility. That´s not the case anymore. He is back to his former self and does his best to anchor a mediocre Minnesota defense. That´s obviously not easy because he shares the floor with two of the worst defenders in the league (Towns and Wiggins).

Two options. His teams being a lot better with him on the floor is a 5-year long fluke. All impact metrics are completly wrong. His boxscore numbers are fake.
OR...forums/chats/boards always have one random troll that thinks he is the smartest guy in the room.

I already made several legit cases, which you (and others) ignored as expected. Just because you said I have none doesn't make it true. And calling me a troll because you disagree with me probably means your points don't have much leg to stand on. Jumping through all these hoops for Robert freakin Covington? C'mon bro. 

"Go watch some tape." That's my favorite after "Troll"! I remember telling every one last summer Delon Wright was not an elite finisher nor a starter. Some unnamed folks told me to "go watch some tape" and downvoted me. They then preceded to post Delon's amazing advanced statistics on why he is an elite defender. I guess I still need to watch more tape? Because I am not seeing it. 

You can post all the fancy advanced statistics you want -- there are flaws in all of them and you know it. Remember you ignored DeMarcus Cousins as the #1 DRPM center even though every one thinks his defense is trash? Avery Bradley is a DPOY candidate too? Doesn't ring a bell? 

I am not afraid to admit Covington is a solid, plus defender. It seems to me the issue is that y'all think he is elite, and in your case the "best non-big defender." I don't believe that, to me he is a wannabe Trevor Ariza; at least Ariza is a consistent playoff contributor and champion.

What has Covington done in the playoffs? Remember you ignored that question too? In 10 games against the mighty Goran Dragic led Miami Heat, and the Celtics without Kyrie Irving: RoCo shot 32% from the field, 31% from 3, averaging 8 ppg. His on/off court rating was a -13. Rookie Jayson Tatum scorched him for 24 ppg. 

DFS at age 26 (current season) is shooting an EFFICIENT 46% from the field, 38% from 3, at 9 ppg contributing to the league's best offense ever.

Covington at age 26 was an INEFFICIENT chucker at 39% from the field and 33% from 3; so what he scored 12 ppg? His usage percentage was 19.2% vs DFS's 12.5%; y'all act like you can take Covington's numbers and transfer them here yet forget his career usage % is 19%. No way, his role/usage would be the same as DFS's. 

So you (and others) think he is worth several assets because he is an elite DPOY worthy player. That's okay!! I don't have to prove anything, the MBT will answer all those questions for me when they don't trade for him.

(01-31-2020, 11:51 AM)SkenfromLMF Wrote: It appears Minnesota thinks too much of him to trade for any package that the Mavs are willing or able to give up... I don't blame them.

(01-31-2020, 11:51 AM)SkenfromLMF Wrote: IT doesn't matter what we think of RoCo. It appears Minnesota thinks too much of him to trade for any package that the Mavs are willing or able to give up... I don't blame them.

The issue is apparently what it will cost to make a minor acquisition such as Iggy. I have wanted Iggy for a LONG time but now I am hesitant because he would only provide 3-4 months of service and I can't comfortably guess what those months are worth.