(01-17-2020, 11:05 PM)SkenfromLMF Wrote: I included Memphis because Iggy represents a LARGE EXPIRING and in this scenario Minnesota SHOULD require Dallas to pay the cost for that part of the acquisition - Dallas is sending the first.

(01-18-2020, 12:36 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote:

(01-17-2020, 11:05 PM)SkenfromLMF Wrote: I included Memphis because Iggy represents a LARGE EXPIRING and in this scenario Minnesota SHOULD require Dallas to pay the cost for that part of the acquisition - Dallas is sending the first.

A separate trade of the TE (and GSW 2nd) for RoCo and using Lee in the trade accomplishes this better without the need to include Mem and a first from us. Since cap clearing is the goal, DFS and Curry don't need to be in the trade to do what you're saying needs to be done.

(01-18-2020, 02:14 AM)burekemde Wrote: Players that are non-tradable: Luka, KP, Maxi, THJ

(01-18-2020, 03:05 AM)SkenfromLMF Wrote: THJ and KP is not nearly sufficient for an exchange of RoCo and KAT. I do not see any way around that, and the more time KP misses the wider the Gulf between the values grows.

(01-18-2020, 07:41 AM)burekemde Wrote: How about Malik Beasley? He would excel with the looks Luka gives him. Can see him becoming all star next to Luka. Can be had cheap perhaps? Both DFS and THJ play so much more efficient due to Lukas double teams. Malik excels as shooter but has better potential driving to basket and as defender. Its a move that could give us someone at guard position to follow Luka the next 10+ years.

(01-18-2020, 02:37 AM)Branduil Wrote: I like DFS but we absolutely need a better perimeter defender.

(01-18-2020, 07:51 AM)omahen Wrote:

(01-18-2020, 07:41 AM)burekemde Wrote: How about Malik Beasley? He would excel with the looks Luka gives him. Can see him becoming all star next to Luka. Can be had cheap perhaps? Both DFS and THJ play so much more efficient due to Lukas double teams. Malik excels as shooter but has better potential driving to basket and as defender. Its a move that could give us someone at guard position to follow Luka the next 10+ years.

He makes sense as a cheaper version of THJ or perhaps instead of Curry. So, if we use either of them in a trade for someone else (on another position), we could bring Malik in as a substitute. I wonder what his market value is, as his minutes and production are limited this season

(01-17-2020, 11:05 PM)SkenfromLMF Wrote:

(01-17-2020, 07:01 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote:

(01-17-2020, 05:59 PM)SkenfromLMF Wrote: The problem IMO is that Minny would then completely deplete us as a cost.

That trade would look more like KP, DFS, Brunson, Curry & GS #2 to Minny; send Lee and a future 1st to Memphis; send Iggy to Minnesota.  Kat, and RoCo attached to the worst contracts Minnesota wants to shed to Dallas

Wait, what? The trade was KP/THJ for KAT/RoCo. I don't understand why you're claiming we would be depleted then change the trade? If you're gonna claim KP/THJ is not enough for KAT/RoCo, that reasoning has to be laid out, then type out what you believe would be the trade. I also don't get the reason to include Iggy in the trade if DFS is returning, and who is the 1st coming from Dal or Min? The Mem part makes 0 sense whatsoever in this trade. Your trade kindof looks to me like, "let's figure out a trade that makes it look less desirable to trade KP".

Also, just going with your trade, how are we completely depleted sending out that group of players? I have the team looking like this after your trade:

Luka/JJB
THJ/Wright
RoCo/JJ
Powell/Maxi
KAT/Dieng (worst contract guy)

Without contesting your "required" trade, this isn't depleted to me at all.

OK... I think Minnesota is attempting to build around KAT to get maximum slots to attract 2 MAX players this summer (or 1 + D'Angelo Russell)
Minnesota's apparent cap clearing mode to build around KAT includes keeping Wiggins - who makes THJ a non-starter for your trade from the MIN perspective. So I absolutely do not see any combination that includes THJ without MIN dumping plural contracts and getting an even higher value in return.
I included Memphis because Iggy represents a LARGE EXPIRING and in this scenario Minnesota SHOULD require Dallas to pay the cost for that part of the acquisition - Dallas is sending the first.
I would also see Minny trying to dump Dieng and Crabbe on Dallas for Wright + Jackson + salary fillers for the price of taking on THJ.
I also say depleted because it takes out the only trade worthy draft pick we have this year and the next available first.

Sorry that was not clearer

(01-17-2020, 11:12 AM)fifteenth Wrote:

(01-17-2020, 11:06 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Wouldn't doubt that, except I've been saying it to him periodically.

It's kind of a compliment that you get mistaken for Dan :-)

(01-18-2020, 11:23 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote:

(01-17-2020, 11:12 AM)fifteenth Wrote:

(01-17-2020, 11:06 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Wouldn't doubt that, except I've been saying it to him periodically.

It's kind of a compliment that you get mistaken for Dan :-)

Been traveling and between meetings, dinners and flights, haven't been able to catch up.  1. Thanks 15th.  That's very kind.  2.  IGT is correct.  In recent weeks he's been the main one championing this thought.  It isn't exactly an original thought on any of our parts and I probably did say something similar to BD41.  But, IGT has said it multiple times in recent weeks.  OK, enough of that.

I have a theory about Minnesota.  BTW, Happy 30th Birthday Gorgui Dieng.  The TWolves did the Atlanta trade in a way that turned a PG into a SG, saved them a little money and created an additional roster spot.  The question is why and why now.  Clearly they want Russell.  So, did Teague/Graham for Crabbe advance their cause in any way?

I think Lee for Dieng helps the goals of both Dallas and Minnesota.  The TWolves save money now and clear space in the summer with Lee's expiring contract.  Dallas gets a useful backup big who can hit a 3, play good D and set good screens.  He's a fantastic fit here and provides KP injury insurance.  He may not be the absolutely best way to use Lee.  So, Dallas might insist on adding more pieces to any deal.  We all assume Dallas wants RoCo.  But he plays a lot of PF and we don't have the minutes at C/PF for RoCo, KP, Powell, Maxi and Dieng.  Roco also pushes additional salary into 2021 (which might not be ideal for Dallas).  I think RoCo fits much better with GS.  I think Wright would be very good in the Livingston role and Jackson's drive and floater game would play well with Golden State's spacing.  So, I'm giving RoCo to GS along with Wright and Jackson to help Minnesota land Russell.

The question is what about Dallas.  I'm giving Culver to Dallas.  He can start out as the SF off the bench (joining Brunson, Seth, Maxi and Dieng).  But, he has much more upside than Wright or Jackson.  Getting him is a good move for the present, but might be a great move for the future.  Crabbe taking the place of Culver for the rest of the season makes more sense than retaining Teague (GS had no use for Teague).  Here is what I think is interesting.  If GS got a TPE for Graham, I think there is a deal out there that gets both GS and Minnesota just under the LT line, uses the extra salary slot Minnesota created and accomplishes their dual goal of getting Russell while still having some space this summer.

Dallas ends up with Dieng/Culver (I'm thrilled)

GS ends up with Wright (takes the Livingston role), RoCo (value is obvious) and Jackson.  I think that's a good haul for their Russell rental.

Minnesota ends up with Russell, Lee and a couple of minor contracts from GS. 

The trade checkers aren't helpful here, but I think it has to be two smaller contracts to make the deal work.  One fits into the Graham TPE and the other has to be combined with Lee and Russell.  The size is limited because Minnesota can only take back $41.78 million and Russell and Lee make $40,044,000 of that.  If Burks and Robinson go to Minnesota, the deal is legal and both teams get under the tax.  Now, suddenly the Teague deal makes sense in terms of Crabbe's position (replacing Culver), the money and the need for an extra roster spot.

You heard it here first  .

(01-18-2020, 11:53 AM)farhan583 Wrote: I like the thought of this trade but I feel Culver is a fellow untouchable along with KAT.  He's been coming on strong as of late and Minny isn't looking to dump a prime prospect that they just drafted.  It would be like someone proposing us trade DSJ halfway through his rookie season for cap relief.  We LOVED DSJ that rookie season.

(01-18-2020, 12:35 PM)cow Wrote: Seems a little too good to be true which makes me think Dallas isn't giving up enough.

(01-18-2020, 12:35 PM)cow Wrote: Seems a little too good to be true which makes me think Dallas isn't giving up enough.

(01-18-2020, 01:15 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote:

(01-18-2020, 12:35 PM)cow Wrote: Seems a little too good to be true which makes me think Dallas isn't giving up enough.

I think longer term I'd rather have Culver than RoCo and I'm certainly pleased all the puzzle pieces fit so well together while helping to make sense of the Teague trade. But, I can be as big of a homer as anyone. So, let's break it down by team:

GS gives up Russell and gets 3 good and useful players in RoCo, Wright and Jackson. RoCo starts and Wright can play next to Curry or Thompson. He's a nice defensive fit there who isn't terrible at the offensive end either. Jackson helps to make all of the salary work, but is probably behind RoCo and Lee at SF. I think GS does this deal. They don't need Russell to be a star when Curry and Thompson return. They need people to replace Livingston and Iggy at reasonable cost for the rest of their "window". This deal does that.

I don't think we have to spend much time on Dallas if people think the incoming is too rich. I will reiterate that very few teams will take on Dieng at this time and Dieng stands in the way of any deal for Russell whether now or in the summer. So, if Russell is a priority, then Minnesota has to find a third team and it will cost them something significant to take on two years of Dieng. BTW, in terms of 2021, Dallas saves $8.5mm for Wright and $12mm in cap hold for Jackson and takes on $6.4mm for Culver. Even if you believe they would walk away from Jackson, this gets us two years of improved interior D from Dieng while adding $2mm to our 2021 cap space. That projects to about $60 million minus our 2020 draft pick with THJ and Dieng FA's that summer.

I think the real question here is whether Minnesota gives up RoCo and Culver in a deal for Russell. I think there is pressure to keep Towns happy and it may take Culver too long to be much of a factor there. It isn't like he's a sure-fire star. But, Russell is a near-star and is reportedly close to Towns. Minnesota would be locked into Russell/Towns and Wiggins for a while. They will get another lottery pick this summer. They will also be able to use the Full MLE to buy some defensive help while staying well below the LT next season. I've purposely left picks out of this because I don't really know who should be getting what here (I think this fits well with the priorities of all three teams). But, if you said Dallas has to give Minnesota the GS#2 (or swap that pick for Minnesota's #2 a few picks later) I'm fine with that. I think the Dallas pick at 20 or so will make the NBA club and any 2nds will be playing in Frisco.

(01-18-2020, 11:23 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: I think Lee for Dieng helps the goals of both Dallas and Minnesota.  The TWolves save money now and clear space in the summer with Lee's expiring contract.  Dallas gets a useful backup big who can hit a 3, play good D and set good screens.  He's a fantastic fit here and provides KP injury insurance.  He may not be the absolutely best way to use Lee.  So, Dallas might insist on adding more pieces to any deal.  We all assume Dallas wants RoCo.  But he plays a lot of PF and we don't have the minutes at C/PF for RoCo, KP, Powell, Maxi and Dieng.  Roco also pushes additional salary into 2021 (which might not be ideal for Dallas).  I think RoCo fits much better with GS.  I think Wright would be very good in the Livingston role and Jackson's drive and floater game would play well with Golden State's spacing.  So, I'm giving RoCo to GS along with Wright and Jackson to help Minnesota land Russell.

The question is what about Dallas.  I'm giving Culver to Dallas.  He can start out as the SF off the bench (joining Brunson, Seth, Maxi and Dieng).  But, he has much more upside than Wright or Jackson.  Getting him is a good move for the present, but might be a great move for the future.  Crabbe taking the place of Culver for the rest of the season makes more sense than retaining Teague (GS had no use for Teague).  Here is what I think is interesting.  If GS got a TPE for Graham, I think there is a deal out there that gets both GS and Minnesota just under the LT line, uses the extra salary slot Minnesota created and accomplishes their dual goal of getting Russell while still having some space this summer.

Dallas ends up with Dieng/Culver (I'm thrilled)

GS ends up with Wright (takes the Livingston role), RoCo (value is obvious) and Jackson.  I think that's a good haul for their Russell rental.

Minnesota ends up with Russell, Lee and a couple of minor contracts from GS. 

The trade checkers aren't helpful here, but I think it has to be two smaller contracts to make the deal work.  One fits into the Graham TPE and the other has to be combined with Lee and Russell.  The size is limited because Minnesota can only take back $41.78 million and Russell and Lee make $40,044,000 of that.  If Burks and Robinson go to Minnesota, the deal is legal and both teams get under the tax.  Now, suddenly the Teague deal makes sense in terms of Crabbe's position (replacing Culver), the money and the need for an extra roster spot.

You heard it here first  .

(01-18-2020, 12:45 PM)chaparral Wrote:

(01-18-2020, 12:35 PM)cow Wrote: Seems a little too good to be true which makes me think Dallas isn't giving up enough.

We could give GS there 2nd round pick back.