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+--- Thread: 2019-2020 Mavs Trade Discussion + Salary Chart (/showthread.php?tid=206)
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RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - ItsGoTime - 12-15-2019
(12-15-2019, 04:59 AM)Mavs2019 Wrote: We need to consolidate our roster.I've been saying this for a while. Anyone complaining about anyone not getting enough minutes should agree. Fixing the starting spots is the biggest need and should be set before the bench is. If weakening the bench is necessary to strengthen the starting unit, I can't see why that is thought of as the tragedy some are making it out to be.
Guys who are very consolidatable for one reason or another: DP, JJ, JB, SC, DFS, Roby, Boban
Guys I'd rather keep, but if the right return is presented should have their bags packed: DW, MK
Can we also talk about the need for "elite" rim running? So, what Powell does is set a pick, run to the rim, catch a lob and dunk it? What big in the NBA when asked to do that and has multiple willing and able counterparts, won't do it? Someone said that Adams is not a rim runner, besides the fact that every big in the NBA is a rim runner when asked and shown the way (I don't think it'd take the 2-3 years DP took to get it down either), when he was with RW, he did a lot of rim running. Ask Thundermav if you don't believe me.
(12-15-2019, 08:59 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: So, the proposal above is too much. Too much to give up, too much disruption to Dallas and too much future money for Minnesota.I mean, is RoCo on the trading block? I don't see why he would be. If he's not, it'll take a somewhat lopsided trade to bring him here (maybe the second doesn't need to be included, but Min, I would think, wants to put their best foot forward and get pieces that work now and for the future). That trade gives us a piece of the future who would play at a high starter level for a long time. Dieng isn't a slouch, just not what Min needs at the moment, esp with his contract. The trade only lowers our # by 1 player. Our 9 man rotation would be:
Luka/THJ/RoCo/KP/Maxi
Wright/Curry/DFS/Dieng
Look at all that defense, so we drop to the #3 offense and raise to the #5 defense in the league while adding minutes to guys who can use them well. I also don't see how those guys wouldn't be able to create the same bond they have now. We go into the offseason targeting Favors and possibly trying to find an upgrade to THJ and the team is then pretty stacked.
(12-15-2019, 08:59 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: The other issue here is Minnesota is a mediocre Offensive team and a bad Defensive team and this is giving away their two best defenders.Giving away their best 2 defenders to get 3 offensive weapons seems like the right kind of idea to make their offense (possibly) explode. I wouldn't mind swapping out Curry for Powell in the trade as well, that just guts them of playable bigs.
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - ItsGoTime - 12-15-2019
One other thing to note about consolidating. One of the reasons I like trades of either Wright or JB is because they are guys that want to run their "own" team. We know that's the case with Wright cause that's why he wanted to come off the bench. We see it with JB even if it isn't spoken. That makes 3 guys on the team that want their own team and we have 2 units to accommodate the 3. Luka gets the 1st team, I'd be fine with either JB or Wright being the guy for the second unit, don't care which, but I think "There can only be one". "This is the way" and "I have spoken".
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - burekemde - 12-15-2019
(12-15-2019, 10:14 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: One other thing to note about consolidating. One of the reasons I like trades of either Wright or JB is because they are guys that want to run their "own" team. We know that's the case with Wright cause that's why he wanted to come off the bench. We see it with JB even if it isn't spoken. That makes 3 guys on the team that want their own team and we have 2 units to accommodate the 3. Luka gets the 1st team, I'd be fine with either JB or Wright being the guy for the second unit, don't care which, but I think "There can only be one". "This is the way" and "I have spoken".
Very good points. I wanted to add that more and more I see JB as a SG rather than PG. Yes he has very good passing skills, but one place he excels I think is when he is 1-on-1 against a defender in the paint and makes the jumper back and gets a two pointer. I could see a unit with Wright running the show passing and JB getting the ball in the post and taking advantage in this way. I think this could be a way to incorporate both of them in one unit. However for that to work there would be needed to be called many plays on design to get the ball to JB in these areas where he is effective 1 on 1. Ultimately i think Wright is far superior PG for the reasons of penetrating and not making many mistakes, and yesterday we saw that Brunson does make mistakes running the offense. However, he has been spectacular in the role where he either gets the ball in the post or gets there by himself, here he is ahead of THJ. I see him being able to develop into a good SG, if he develops that post game further, catch and shoot and works more on his defense.
As long as both Wright and JB try to run the offense and also JJB and Luka, I agree there are too many. I really see potential for JB to play more off the ball and get the ball in the post rather where he can then use his post game and passing abilities, he might get his scoring numbers and efficiency up this way.
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - DanSchwartzgan - 12-15-2019
(12-15-2019, 09:07 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote:
(12-15-2019, 08:59 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: So, the proposal above is too much. Too much to give up, too much disruption to Dallas and too much future money for Minnesota.I mean, is RoCo on the trading block? I don't see why he would be. If he's not, it'll take a somewhat lopsided trade to bring him here (maybe the second doesn't need to be included, but Min, I would think, wants to put their best foot forward and get pieces that work now and for the future). That trade gives us a piece of the future who would play at a high starter level for a long time. Dieng isn't a slouch, just not what Min needs at the moment, esp with his contract. The trade only lowers our # by 1 player. Our 9 man rotation would be:
Luka/THJ/RoCo/KP/Maxi
Wright/Curry/DFS/Dieng
It feels like you are saying "Covington is such a good fit and we have too many players, so Why Not Overpay". I don't think that is the right question. The right question is what is the least we can send to get them to bite.
I just don't see the point, from either team's perspective, of adding Powell to the deal. Minnesota doesn't want his money on their cap next summer and Dallas likes him and uses him very effectively. If the proposal is Dieng/Covington for pick/Brunson/Jackson (and obviously Lee), I'm OK with that. JJB can back up Wright and we can add a third string PG in whatever summer JJB decides to hang it up.
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - vfromlmf - 12-15-2019
I used to be the case where fans wildly overrated their own players is fantasy trades.
Seems like the opposite is often the case here.
From what I see, Brunson looks like he could be a young, top 20 point guard in this league.
We'll likely find out over the next couple of week as I expect his minutes to go way up in a starting role.
Powell also seems to be undervalued.
Unfortunately another young trade-able piece, Jackson has really slumped as his minutes have gone up
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - ItsGoTime - 12-15-2019
(12-15-2019, 10:40 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: It feels like you are saying "Covington is such a good fit and we have too many players, so Why Not Overpay". I don't think that is the right question. The right question is what is the least we can send to get them to bite.Not exactly "Why not overpay", more, they aren't looking to move him, so you have to come strong with an offer. Anything less is a non-starter. In most all cases where I myself either like a trade or propose a trade, that is usually what I like for the final deal, not as the first offer. You have to figure out what you're willing to spend then propose something less than that, but not so much less that the negotiation never takes place. Which is what you're saying in your last sentence.
(12-15-2019, 10:40 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: I just don't see the point, from either team's perspective, of adding Powell to the deal. Minnesota doesn't want his money on their cap next summer and Dallas likes him and uses him very effectively. If the proposal is Dieng/Covington for pick/Brunson/Jackson (and obviously Lee), I'm OK with that. JJB can back up Wright and we can add a third string PG in whatever summer JJB decides to hang it up.
To me, the point is they're getting rid of one of their 2 bigs that can spell KAT, but Powell could take all of Dieng's 14.5 mpg and still be effective with KAT on the floor so as to get 24-28 mpg. I like your trade proposal dropping Powell, I just wonder what they actually would want from our roster and I myself am not attached to anyone other than Luka and KP (well, I am attached to MK and DW, but they are still worth giving up in the right trade).
(12-15-2019, 11:05 AM)vfromlmf Wrote: We'll likely find out over the next couple of week as I expect his minutes to go way up in a starting role.Maybe, Wright was the first choice to spell Luka. I wonder if the reason we didn't see him after the 8 mins is because he (or coach) figured out he was still too injured to go longer. If he comes back from the injury, does he take the starting spot over? I think that might give us the better results.
(12-15-2019, 11:05 AM)vfromlmf Wrote: Powell also seems to be undervalued.I think Powell is a system guy. If other teams value him and want him in trade, I'm willing to part with him and find the next system guy to replace him. I don't want to give him away because it will take time to find and develop another system guy, and there is the possibility that he isn't and can duplicate what he's doing here on another team, so with that in mind, he's tradable as a piece that if the other team wants him, he's yours if I'm getting much of his value to our team in return. I realize that is subjective, and that our FO believes his value to this team is higher than I do, which is why I don't believe he'll ever be traded.
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - Tyler - 12-15-2019
Random idea with Luka missing some time.
Miami could stand to shed about $4mm to get under the luxury tax line. Dallas could use a Slovenian PG. Going back to some summertime rumors, something like Dragic/Jones for Lee/Jackson and the GS 2nd could help both teams.
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - SkenfromLMF - 12-15-2019
I would rather use Broekhoff than Jackson if we are using the GS 2nd.
(12-15-2019, 03:47 PM)Tyler Wrote: Random idea with Luka missing some time.
Miami could stand to shed about $4mm to get under the luxury tax line. Dallas could use a Slovenian PG. Going back to some summertime rumors, something like Dragic/Jones for Lee/Jackson and the GS 2nd could help both teams.
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - Playmaker - 12-15-2019
This team needs a consistent third scorer (maybe even a consistent second scorer the way KP is shooting) and 2 athletic defenders that can hit open shoots in order to be a championship team. Against teams with three defenders that can slow Luka down (like the clippers) a consistent third scorer is vital.
These are the players that interest me at the TDL. Lavine, Gallo, Aaron Gordon, Beasley, Bogdanovic, ROCO, and Bertans.
So my trade would be Curry+Wright+2nd round pick for Lavine. This allows you to consolidate the roster which is needed. Lavine takes over Curry's and Wrights minutes and role. Lee's contract could be used in a separate trade while also opening up a roster spot and playing time for someone like Josh Reaves/Roby.
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - StepBackJay - 12-15-2019
(12-15-2019, 03:47 PM)Tyler Wrote: Random idea with Luka missing some time.
Miami could stand to shed about $4mm to get under the luxury tax line. Dallas could use a Slovenian PG. Going back to some summertime rumors, something like Dragic/Jones for Lee/Jackson and the GS 2nd could help both teams.
Don't think Miami will give you Jones. Dragic would be nice. Miami might want to hold onto him. He has been hurt but was playing well.
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - michaeltex - 12-16-2019
(12-15-2019, 10:07 PM)StepBackJay Wrote:Miami is kind of like DAL in that they are playing well above expectations. I think part of their success is the chemistry between the players, so giving up a contributor like Dragic may not be in the cards. Like us, they want to get better, but not lose momentum with what they have now.(12-15-2019, 03:47 PM)Tyler Wrote: Random idea with Luka missing some time.
Miami could stand to shed about $4mm to get under the luxury tax line. Dallas could use a Slovenian PG. Going back to some summertime rumors, something like Dragic/Jones for Lee/Jackson and the GS 2nd could help both teams.
Don't think Miami will give you Jones. Dragic would be nice. Miami might want to hold onto him. He has been hurt but was playing well.
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - StepBackJay - 12-16-2019
What's interesting is a lot of players that would be candidates to be moved have high salaries thus making them pretty hard to move. My worry is that many will get bought out instead which means they will just run to the Lakers or another top contender. I wish the NBA would add some restrictions on buyout guys. Like for example what happens if Thompson and JJ Redick got bought out and run to the Lakers? I don't think that will happen but there are a couple of surprises every year.
The advantage the Mavs have is the Lee chip + 2nds + that TE of ab 12 mil (altho it cannot be combined for higher salary guys).
That would put the Mavs in the mix for a lot of expirings like Iggy, Thompson, Favors, and so on. Thad Young is also an interesting player. He could definitely be a straight dump player who would be a good fit here. He only has 6 mil guaranteed in 2021. That does cut into Mavs space for a max player so that is an issue.
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - ItsGoTime - 12-16-2019
I asked either in this thread or another what Powell was doing while KP was rim running with Luka in the Det game. It got me to thinking. Powell was setting the pick at the top of the key. That brings his man out of the paint because if the big needs to switch to put a hand in Luka's face, he's there to do that. That gives Luka enough room to get by the big (or shoot the 3 if the big doesn't actually come out far enough) and have an open lane. If others collapse, our guys read that and move based on what the defense gives them. I don't see why that would be any different if we plug and play any other non-shooting big, because Powell is a non-shooting big.
(12-16-2019, 10:24 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: He could definitely be a straight dump player who would be a good fit here. He only has 6 mil guaranteed in 2021. That does cut into Mavs space for a max player so that is an issue.I don't see why. Wouldn't that make him a better sign-and-trade contract? His money in trade is higher than his guaranteed amount. (edit) Other option is you can attach a second with him for the space instead of needing a first at his full value.
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - vfromlmf - 12-16-2019
Seth Curry --> Sixers
Courtney Lee, Mike Scott, Jalen Brunson, GSW#2 --> Thunder
Steven Adams --> Mavericks
Seth Curry --> Sixers
Courtney Lee, Mike Scott, Jalen Brunson, GSW#2 --> Pistons
Andre Drummond --> Mavericks
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - omahen - 12-16-2019
(12-16-2019, 12:04 PM)vfromlmf Wrote: Seth Curry --> Sixers
Courtney Lee, Mike Scott, Jalen Brunson, GSW#2 --> Thunder
Steven Adams --> Mavericks
Seth Curry --> Sixers
Courtney Lee, Mike Scott, Jalen Brunson, GSW#2 --> Pistons
Andre Drummond --> Mavericks
Why are you mixing the Sixers in? Mike Scott brings absolutely nothing to the trade value for OKC.
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - StepBackJay - 12-16-2019
Man that Hawks pick would be nice. I know the Sixers would love a guy like Curry but that would be a high price. I do wonder if Curry has a chance to really emerge offensively over the next few weeks if that really boosts his market value. Even if all the Mavs did was cash him in for a pick (seems unlikely they'd do that tho?) it would free up some minutes in the rotation for other guys and give the Mavs more ammunition for a big move this summer.
(12-16-2019, 12:04 PM)vfromlmf Wrote: Seth Curry --> Sixers
Courtney Lee, Mike Scott, Jalen Brunson, GSW#2 --> Thunder
Steven Adams --> Mavericks
Seth Curry --> Sixers
Courtney Lee, Mike Scott, Jalen Brunson, GSW#2 --> Pistons
Andre Drummond --> Mavericks
I don't like Drummond at all. I love Adams and his contract is perfect for what the Mavs want to do in that he is unrestricted in 2021. I wouldn't want to give up Curry, GSW #2 and Brunson, that seems like a lot for Adams. I also don't think the Thunder want to move him anyway.
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - ItsGoTime - 12-16-2019
(12-16-2019, 05:43 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: I wouldn't want to give up Curry, GSW #2 and Brunson, that seems like a lot for Adams.One of the barometers I use to tell if a trade is fair or not is if fans of the team think it's too much, and I think it's pretty close.
(Edit) That's when you go into the negotiation with Lee, Brunson and the GSW #2. If they bring a counter, I know I am willing to give up Curry or the equivalent (depending on their counter) as well.
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - vfromlmf - 12-16-2019
(12-16-2019, 12:41 PM)omahen Wrote: Why are you mixing the Sixers in? Mike Scott brings absolutely nothing to the trade value for OKC.
There are more than five million reasons I'm including Mike Scott.
Scott saves OKC $2.7M in salary and $2.3M in tax
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - Mavs2019 - 12-16-2019
(12-16-2019, 12:41 PM)omahen Wrote:(12-16-2019, 12:04 PM)vfromlmf Wrote: Seth Curry --> Sixers
Courtney Lee, Mike Scott, Jalen Brunson, GSW#2 --> Thunder
Steven Adams --> Mavericks
Seth Curry --> Sixers
Courtney Lee, Mike Scott, Jalen Brunson, GSW#2 --> Pistons
Andre Drummond --> Mavericks
Why are you mixing the Sixers in? Mike Scott brings absolutely nothing to the trade value for OKC.
Better question would be why are you mixing the Thunder or Pistons in.
Thybulle and O´Quinn would fit all our needs. Young 3&D player and a rugged PF/C. Since Thybulle has shown real promise, they probably consider him untouchable, at which point the Mavs would have to ask themselves what Zhaire Smith can be.
I´d do
Knicks 2020 2nd
Hawks 2020 2nd
Smith
O´Quinn
for
Curry.
That would virtually guarantee you three free shots between 31-36 on draft night. Combined with our own pick (18-22) it would also allow you to move up into the lottery range, maybe picks 12-15, or cash in your four picks for a top player.
I know the Mavs probably don´t think that way, because they value the veteran player over the asset game, but this sounds really interesting to me.
RE: Mavs Trade Ideas + Salary Chart - omahen - 12-16-2019
(12-16-2019, 06:22 PM)vfromlmf Wrote: There are more than five million reasons I'm including Mike Scott.
We can do way better and do OKC more favour by taking Roberson in the TE. Not just gifting Seth Curry to Philly. Mavs2019 proposal makes way more sense. Although Curry is not worth 2 almost first rounders. One perhaps.