(11-05-2019, 08:38 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: This isn't so much a trade idea as it is a framework for thinking about trades.  I've yet to figure out what the biggest area of need is.  When you have a bunch of "good" players and "great" players aren't within the reach of your assets, then all you are probably talking about is marginal improvement.  

I'm starting to look at lineups and positions a little differently than the traditional five positions (1-5).  In terms of lineups, we have Both Unicorns, Neither Unicorn, Luka without KP and KP without Luka.  We are nowhere near figuring out the lineups that include KP.  Right now he has a positive net rating in two man lineups with only one teammate...Brunson.  He's a net negative in On Court and his On Minus Off is -26.  

.......

Future improvement is also clouded by a potential drop in BRI which could actually lower the cap and tax levels.  It seems the team has targeted something more at all three positions.  Improvement might just be marginal (potential deals might be uninspiring), but the difference between 48 and 51 wins and the difference between 5th in the West and 4th is also a marginal difference.  At some point marginal improvement is enough to make the difference between a first round exit and two rounds of playoffs.  So, maybe our biggest need is actually marginal improvement.  Anything more that than is likely out of reach or incredibly expensive.

(11-10-2019, 07:10 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote:

(11-05-2019, 08:38 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: This isn't so much a trade idea as it is a framework for thinking about trades. I've yet to figure out what the biggest area of need is. When you have a bunch of "good" players and "great" players aren't within the reach of your assets, then all you are probably talking about is marginal improvement.

I'm starting to look at lineups and positions a little differently than the traditional five positions (1-5). In terms of lineups, we have Both Unicorns, Neither Unicorn, Luka without KP and KP without Luka. We are nowhere near figuring out the lineups that include KP. Right now he has a positive net rating in two man lineups with only one teammate...Brunson. He's a net negative in On Court and his On Minus Off is -26.

.......

Future improvement is also clouded by a potential drop in BRI which could actually lower the cap and tax levels. It seems the team has targeted something more at all three positions. Improvement might just be marginal (potential deals might be uninspiring), but the difference between 48 and 51 wins and the difference between 5th in the West and 4th is also a marginal difference. At some point marginal improvement is enough to make the difference between a first round exit and two rounds of playoffs. So, maybe our biggest need is actually marginal improvement. Anything more that than is likely out of reach or incredibly expensive.

This is a well written post and has some really good thoughts that was pretty immediately buried.

Someone posted an idea of trading for both Holiday and Favors out of NO. That to me is a marginal upgrade for the frontcourt (Favors > either of Maxi or Powell and is a bigger body to deal with the bruisers in the league more aptly). It is, however, a pretty big upgrade to the backcourt (Holiday >>> Brunson, Wright, or JJB) especially if he can get closer to his last season numbers with the change in scenery.

The first trade I'd propose can't happen til Dec cause of either Powell or Maxi's involvement and it mostly is only a viable trade if Zion comes back and further stunts Jrue's numbers relegating him to mainly a setup man on O and stopper on D as well as their chances of making the playoffs seem more bleak.

Second trade is just one I'd like to see if there is enough left over to make happen cause I'm intrigued with the swiss army knife ability of Jae Crowder. I think he'd be a marginal, but important upgrade to get that would seal our 3-4 year future as a contender. This trade wouldn't happen til after the first one does, cause I want as many assets as I can give to NO for the players involved. If there are not enough assets left over from the NO trade, then I'm good without this one.

Trade 1:
Jrue, Favors and anything they want to dump on us
for
THJ, Powell, JJ, Brunson (anything else they want, or if they want to switch out names, for example Maxi instead of Powell although I prefer giving them Powell), 2025 first and 2 future seconds.

This gets us bigger, stronger and more junk yard dog-ish to combat the guys that want to push our team around and give at least as much as we're getting.

Trade 2:
Jae, AI and anything they might want to dump on us
for
Lee, Kleber (or Powell) and 2-3 seconds or gentleman's agreement to give them our 2020 pick.

This gets us more playoff ready with the bigger, more durable body of Jae. In all honesty, Lee and AI don't need to be included, it only adds to Mem's immediate savings.

This leaves us with a team that looks like this:

Luka
Jrue
Crowder
KP
Favors

Wright
Curry
AI
DFS
Boban

JJB

There's the 11 man reg season rotation, Boban still gets mostly spot minutes, but pretty much every game minutes at least. Playoffs drop Boban, JJB and the worse player between DFS and AI. The ones dropped get spot minutes in the playoffs. This team is built to deal with any lineup in the league, big or small. Tons of defense, tons of offense. Basically we're condensing the abilities of all the outgoing players into 2 fewer players so as to get more burn for the players who will contribute more appropriately. No more need to switch lineups/starters. RC can figure out who plays the best with eachother for his mad scientist testing period, then set the lineups as the playoffs near.

Here's the approved trade on RealGM's trade checker: Trade ID #7245295

(11-10-2019, 09:11 AM)Scott41theMavs Wrote:

(11-10-2019, 07:10 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote:

(11-05-2019, 08:38 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: This isn't so much a trade idea as it is a framework for thinking about trades.  I've yet to figure out what the biggest area of need is.  When you have a bunch of "good" players and "great" players aren't within the reach of your assets, then all you are probably talking about is marginal improvement. 

I'm starting to look at lineups and positions a little differently than the traditional five positions (1-5).  In terms of lineups, we have Both Unicorns, Neither Unicorn, Luka without KP and KP without Luka.  We are nowhere near figuring out the lineups that include KP.  Right now he has a positive net rating in two man lineups with only one teammate...Brunson.  He's a net negative in On Court and his On Minus Off is -26. 

.......

Future improvement is also clouded by a potential drop in BRI which could actually lower the cap and tax levels.  It seems the team has targeted something more at all three positions.  Improvement might just be marginal (potential deals might be uninspiring), but the difference between 48 and 51 wins and the difference between 5th in the West and 4th is also a marginal difference.  At some point marginal improvement is enough to make the difference between a first round exit and two rounds of playoffs.  So, maybe our biggest need is actually marginal improvement.  Anything more that than is likely out of reach or incredibly expensive.

This is a well written post and has some really good thoughts that was pretty immediately buried.

Someone posted an idea of trading for both Holiday and Favors out of NO. That to me is a marginal upgrade for the frontcourt (Favors > either of Maxi or Powell and is a bigger body to deal with the bruisers in the league more aptly). It is, however, a pretty big upgrade to the backcourt (Holiday >>> Brunson, Wright, or JJB) especially if he can get closer to his last season numbers with the change in scenery.

The first trade I'd propose can't happen til Dec cause of either Powell or Maxi's involvement and it mostly is only a viable trade if Zion comes back and further stunts Jrue's numbers relegating him to mainly a setup man on O and stopper on D as well as their chances of making the playoffs seem more bleak.

Second trade is just one I'd like to see if there is enough left over to make happen cause I'm intrigued with the swiss army knife ability of Jae Crowder. I think he'd be a marginal, but important upgrade to get that would seal our 3-4 year future as a contender. This trade wouldn't happen til after the first one does, cause I want as many assets as I can give to NO for the players involved. If there are not enough assets left over from the NO trade, then I'm good without this one.

Trade 1:
Jrue, Favors and anything they want to dump on us
for
THJ, Powell, JJ, Brunson (anything else they want, or if they want to switch out names, for example Maxi instead of Powell although I prefer giving them Powell), 2025 first and 2 future seconds.

This gets us bigger, stronger and more junk yard dog-ish to combat the guys that want to push our team around and give at least as much as we're getting.

Trade 2:
Jae, AI and anything they might want to dump on us
for
Lee, Kleber (or Powell) and 2-3 seconds or gentleman's agreement to give them our 2020 pick.

This gets us more playoff ready with the bigger, more durable body of Jae. In all honesty, Lee and AI don't need to be included, it only adds to Mem's immediate savings.

This leaves us with a team that looks like this:

Luka
Jrue
Crowder
KP
Favors

Wright
Curry
AI
DFS
Boban

JJB

There's the 11 man reg season rotation, Boban still gets mostly spot minutes, but pretty much every game minutes at least. Playoffs drop Boban, JJB and the worse player between DFS and AI. The ones dropped get spot minutes in the playoffs. This team is built to deal with any lineup in the league, big or small. Tons of defense, tons of offense. Basically we're condensing the abilities of all the outgoing players into 2 fewer players so as to get more burn for the players who will contribute more appropriately. No more need to switch lineups/starters. RC can figure out who plays the best with eachother for his mad scientist testing period, then set the lineups as the playoffs near.                         

Here's the approved trade on RealGM's trade checker:  Trade ID #7245295

Why the heck would the Pels trade Holiday for our (relative) pupu platter?

(11-10-2019, 12:22 PM)JamesConway Wrote: Dion Waiters should be trade target nr 1. We have the expirings to absorb his contract or maybe even absorb him into our trade exception?

We could extract an important asset for him out of Miami. He's clearly on his way out. Get the asset, then waive him.

It's what we should have done last summer when Golden State attached a 1st to move Iggy. We NEED more trade ammunation.

(11-10-2019, 12:22 PM)JamesConway Wrote: Dion Waiters should be trade target nr 1. We have the expirings to absorb his contract or maybe even absorb him into our trade exception?

We could extract an important asset for him out of Miami. He's clearly on his way out. Get the asset, then waive him.

It's what we should have done last summer when Golden State attached a 1st to move Iggy. We NEED more trade ammunation.

(11-10-2019, 12:33 PM)SportPsychMav Wrote:

(11-10-2019, 12:22 PM)JamesConway Wrote: Dion Waiters should be trade target nr 1. We have the expirings to absorb his contract or maybe even absorb him into our trade exception?

We could extract an important asset for him out of Miami. He's clearly on his way out. Get the asset, then waive him.

It's what we should have done last summer when Golden State attached a 1st to move Iggy. We NEED more trade ammunation.

Waiters is toxic...

(11-10-2019, 12:37 PM)omahen Wrote:

(11-10-2019, 12:22 PM)JamesConway Wrote: Dion Waiters should be trade target nr 1. We have the expirings to absorb his contract or maybe even absorb him into our trade exception?

We could extract an important asset for him out of Miami. He's clearly on his way out. Get the asset, then waive him.

It's what we should have done last summer when Golden State attached a 1st to move Iggy. We NEED more trade ammunation.

Agree. Question is, does Miami have assets. They have basically traded away all their first and second round picks:
- First first one is available 2025.
- First second one is available 2027.

This leaves youngsters. Adebayo, Herro and Nunn are certainly off the table. This leaves Jones and Robinson. None of them improves us a lot or has a really high upside imho. Jones is a "younger DFS", Robinson is "McDermott". I have no idea about Okpala.

Difficult :-(

(11-10-2019, 09:11 AM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: Why the heck would the Pels trade Holiday for our (relative) pupu platter?

(11-10-2019, 11:47 AM)BigDirk41 Wrote: We would definitely be ready to contend, but the Pels will never make that deal. It would be awesome if they would, but I don't see it personally.

(11-10-2019, 08:11 AM)SportPsychMav Wrote: Maxi should not be traded at all costs.

(11-09-2019, 12:41 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: Sleeping Hero mentioned the idea of trading for Gallinari and Adams. Works for THJ, Lee, Brunson, Jackson, and Bro. Unfortunately, you'd have to tip the Thunder about 10 seconds and our 2024 first to seal that deal.

(11-10-2019, 05:41 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: I put the odds of this trade happening at 0%. But boy would it be entertaining.

(11-10-2019, 08:56 PM)aguiar95 Wrote: How about these trades for a KP duo:

DAL: J. Valanciunas, A. Iguodala, J. Jackson
MEM: T. Hardaway Jr, D. Powell, 2020 UTA 2nd Rounder, 2020 GSW 2nd Rounder

DAL: T. Young
CHI: D. Powell

DAL: M. Leonard, D. Waiters, J. Johnson
MIA: T. Hardaway Jr, C. Lee

(11-10-2019, 09:18 PM)Mavsfan12 Wrote:

(11-10-2019, 08:56 PM)aguiar95 Wrote: How about these trades for a KP duo:

DAL: J. Valanciunas, A. Iguodala, J. Jackson
MEM: T. Hardaway Jr, D. Powell, 2020 UTA 2nd Rounder, 2020 GSW 2nd Rounder

DAL: T. Young
CHI: D. Powell

DAL: M. Leonard, D. Waiters, J. Johnson
MIA: T. Hardaway Jr, C. Lee

Trade 1 would be awesome - pairing JJJ with KP would be sweet and would be easily the best young 3 core in the league by a mile.  No chance of that happening for a Memphis team that is trying to build around him and Morant.  

Trade 2 makes us worse.  We are not deep at the 5 - certainly not deep enough to trade DP and not get back a 5.  Young is an upgrade on DFS (albeit an older one - actually, Young is what we all hope that DFS turns into, right?).

Trade 3... Puke.

(11-10-2019, 10:04 PM)aguiar95 Wrote: Trade 1 it's Josh Jackson, former Suns 4th pick, would be just a throw in.

Trade 2 turns KP into a 5 for good. Young would be like a Millsap kind of guy, but good point on not having deep big rotation.

Trade 3 Is not that bad if you think that is a Lee for Leonard (we try Leonard till the end of the season and move Powell to the bench mob) and THJ for Johnson and Waiters (both will become expiring next season and Waiters could probably fill the THJ role while Johnson could provide more defense and phisicality). I could be wrong, haven't watched those guys in years but at least Leonard can shoot and probably rebound better than Powell (not sure about his defense, but in playoffs last year with the Blazers played really well overall).