![]() |
Trade & FA 2023-24: Sexton On the Market? | ORL Likes Hartenstein? - Printable Version +- MavsBoard (https://www.mavsboard.com) +-- Forum: Boards (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=1) +--- Forum: Dallas Mavericks and the NBA (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=2) +--- Thread: Trade & FA 2023-24: Sexton On the Market? | ORL Likes Hartenstein? (/showthread.php?tid=2444) Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
227
228
229
230
231
232
233
234
235
236
237
238
239
240
241
242
243
244
245
246
247
248
249
250
251
252
253
254
255
256
257
258
259
260
261
262
263
264
265
266
267
268
269
270
271
272
273
274
275
276
277
278
279
280
281
282
283
284
285
286
287
288
289
290
291
292
293
294
295
296
297
298
299
300
301
302
303
304
305
306
307
308
309
310
311
312
313
314
315
316
317
318
319
320
321
322
323
324
325
326
327
328
329
330
331
332
333
334
335
336
337
338
339
340
341
342
343
344
345
346
347
348
349
350
351
352
353
354
355
356
357
358
359
360
361
362
363
364
365
366
367
368
369
370
371
372
373
374
375
376
377
378
379
380
381
382
383
384
385
386
387
388
389
390
391
392
393
394
395
396
397
398
399
400
401
402
403
404
405
406
407
408
409
410
411
412
413
414
415
416
417
418
419
420
421
422
423
424
425
426
427
428
429
430
431
432
433
434
435
436
437
438
439
440
441
442
443
444
445
446
447
448
449
450
451
452
453
454
455
456
457
458
459
460
461
462
463
464
465
466
467
468
469
470
471
472
473
474
475
476
477
478
479
480
481
482
483
484
485
486
487
488
489
490
491
492
493
494
495
496
497
498
499
500
501
502
503
504
505
506
507
508
509
510
511
512
513
514
515
516
517
518
519
520
521
522
523
524
525
526
527
528
529
530
531
532
533
534
535
536
537
538
539
540
541
542
543
544
545
546
547
548
549
550
551
552
553
554
555
556
557
558
559
560
561
562
563
564
565
566
567
568
569
570
571
572
573
574
575
576
577
578
579
580
581
582
583
|
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Vezenkov+Kings Are Done - Luka77 - 06-14-2024 (06-14-2024, 11:15 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: In the same price range as Simons you can probably go after someone like Deni Avdija. But more realistically the Mavs don't burn all available assets this summer and look at cheaper options that can offer a little bit more than THJ/Exum/Green. Maybe even hold onto THJs contract to use it in a more favorable deadline deal. I'm okay with Avdija but he doesn't help create more offense like Simons would. Simons is a much better passer, shooter, and ball handler. Him guarding White or Hoilday isn't a stretch. Boston definitely wouldnt be holding Dallas to under a 100 points like they have been doing. Also you may need to assess what Washington is going to want for Avdija. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Vezenkov+Kings Are Done - Luka77 - 06-14-2024 (06-14-2024, 11:19 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Length is important but adding Simons wouldn't change that...now you aren't even making sense. Who is going to be the lenghty player in the gap or at the rim if you have Simons/Kyrie/Luka on the floor together.PJW and Lively. Also you may want to look at Simons wing span its 6'9. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Vezenkov+Kings Are Done - dirkfansince1998 - 06-14-2024 (06-14-2024, 11:25 PM)Luka77 Wrote: I'm okay with Avdija but he doesn't help create more offense like Simons would. Simons is a much better passer, shooter, and ball handler. Him guarding White or Hoilday isn't a stretch. Of course he isn't as good on offense as Simons. But he would be an upgrade over DJJ/PJ without giving up anything on defense. We have already established that basketball is about team defense and 5v5...right? So it isn't just about White or Holiday (as good as they are they are still the easiest matchups on the floor). Just as much about the pick and roll. Help defense. Switches and rotations. Mavs are trying to avoid matchups where Luka or Kyrie end up on Brown and Tatum. Add Simons and the Mavs have another guy that they want to keep out of those matchups. If getting beaten off the dribble was a problem with two good defenders next to Luka/Kyrie things aren't getting any better if you replace one out of DJJ/PJ with Simons. You are trading defense for offense. In my opinion it makes more sense to build upon the Mavs strength. Don't risk the defensive improvement. Add a guy that fits into the current system. Even if the upgrade on offense isn't as big. Not to even mention that both names aren't realistic targets for the Mavs. Not aware of any trade rumors that feature Simons. Would assume that it would take at least the equivalent of 2-3 first to get him. Same for Avdija. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Vezenkov+Kings Are Done - Luka77 - 06-14-2024 https://youtu.be/k6hZlBZA9r4?si=gdm9N7RijKuWtbf0 Since many of you aren't familiar with this game. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Vezenkov+Kings Are Done - dirkfansince1998 - 06-14-2024 (06-14-2024, 11:29 PM)Luka77 Wrote: PJW and Lively. Also you may want to look at Simons wing span its 6'9. If PJ is playing help defense at the rim he probably isn't guarding one of the best opposing wings/guards. That only leaves Luka/Kyrie/Simons for that task. 6-9 wingspan. For real? He would replace DJJ or PJ. Two long defenders that had more blocks this season than Simons in his entire career. Kyrie plays bigger than Simons. At least has great hands and above average core strength for a small guard. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Vezenkov+Kings Are Done - Luka77 - 06-14-2024 (06-14-2024, 11:38 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Of course he isn't as good on offense as Simons. But he would be an upgrade over DJJ/PJ without giving up anything on defense. Avdija isn't stopping Brown or Tatum either. Again the Mavs defense is mostly keep your man in front of you, contest on threes and funnel offenive players to two shot blockers. It's a defensive system. A player like Simons isn't busting that system. I'm not suggesting playing Kyrie-Simons-Luka on the floor at all times. But this series the Mavs would definitely not be down 3-1 to the Celtics with Simons on the Mavs. They had a locked on pod about trading for Simons and its salary, young player and first. I don't think that breaks the Mavs. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Vezenkov+Kings Are Done - GATA - 06-14-2024 I mean Luka is long as hell. That isn’t his problem. Kyrie is the huge defensive weakness RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Vezenkov+Kings Are Done - Luka77 - 06-14-2024 (06-14-2024, 11:44 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: If PJ is playing help defense at the rim he probably isn't guarding one of the best opposing wings/guards. That only leaves Luka/Kyrie/Simons for that task. https://www.si.com/nba/2018/06/21/anfernee-simons-2018-nba-draft-grades#:~:text=Despite%20his%20height%2C%20his%20wingspan,leap%20of%20all%20combine%20participants. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Vezenkov+Kings Are Done - dirkfansince1998 - 06-15-2024 (06-14-2024, 11:56 PM)Luka77 Wrote: https://www.si.com/nba/2018/06/21/anfernee-simons-2018-nba-draft-grades#:~:text=Despite%20his%20height%2C%20his%20wingspan,leap%20of%20all%20combine%20participants. If you think this is an endorsement of his physical measurements or defensive ability you need to read it again. Not to mention that a draft report has no real value for the current discussion because we had the chance to watch him in the league for more than five years. We also have stats/metrics that tell us how he performed. Not just pre draft expecatations. Those numbers tell us that he isn't offering any resistance at the rim. Even for a guard 72.5 DFG% at the rim is terrible. Even for a guard 0.1 bpg are terrible. And a THJ-like steal and deflection rate isn't indicating quick hands or good awareness. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Vezenkov+Kings Are Done - Luka77 - 06-15-2024 (06-14-2024, 11:44 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: If PJ is playing help defense at the rim he probably isn't guarding one of the best opposing wings/guards. That only leaves Luka/Kyrie/Simons for that task. (06-15-2024, 12:13 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: If you think this is an endorsement of his physical measurements or defensive ability you need to read it again. Not to mention that a draft report has no real value for the current discussion because we had the chance to watch him in the league for more than five years. We also have stats/metrics that tell us how he performed. Not just pre draft expecatations. Those numbers tell us that he isn't offering any resistance at the rim. Even for a guard 72.5 DFG% at the rim is terrible. Even for a guard 0.1 bpg are terrible. And a THJ-like steal and deflection rate isn't indicating quick hands or good awareness. The current discussion is bc you stated I didn't know what I was talking about when I said Simons had length he could bring on defense. Again you don't know anything about Simon's other than some defensive metrics from this season which Mavs2021 has told you about. I guess you are part of the Mavs crew that thinks Powell was a great center for the Mavs bc of his metrics. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Vezenkov+Kings Are Done - dirkfansince1998 - 06-15-2024 Honestly gets worse with every deep dive into his numbers I take. Apparently he has the 2nd lowest STL% among all players that played more than 20 minutes (only Zubac is worse. only centers anywhere near him) and averages less than one deflection per game (once again among the worst in the league). RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Vezenkov+Kings Are Done - dirkfansince1998 - 06-15-2024 (06-15-2024, 12:21 AM)Luka77 Wrote: The current discussion is bc you stated I didn't know what I was talking about when I said Simons had length he could bring on defense. I definitely think that you have no clue what you are talking about. And I don't have to come up with strawmans to make my case. Stats cannot hurt you. You are free to offer me reasons why all the metrics that people use to determine good/bad defense don't apply in Simons unique case. You can also double down on this weird Powell strawman. That just confirms my opinion that you don't know what you are talking about. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Vezenkov+Kings Are Done - Luka77 - 06-15-2024 (06-15-2024, 12:21 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Honestly gets worse with every deep dive into his numbers I take. Apparently he has the 2nd lowest STL% among all players that played more than 20 minutes (only Zubac is worse. only centers anywhere near him) and averages less than one deflection per game (once again among the worst in the league). He plays for the Blazers, a young team, with no hope to win or get to the playoffs. He has played most of career with nothing on the line and no reason to put in extra effort. What indicators told you PJW would be a good defender on the Mavs? Again the Mavs are losing in Finals bc of their offense not their defense. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Vezenkov+Kings Are Done - mvossman - 06-15-2024 (06-15-2024, 12:32 AM)Luka77 Wrote: He plays for the Blazers, a young team, with no hope to win or get to the playoffs. He has played most of career with nothing on the line and no reason to put in extra effort. They got to the finals because of their defense. The PJ comparisons have to stop. There was way more reason to believe PJ defense would improve and his level of improvement was an outlier. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Vezenkov+Kings Are Done - Luka77 - 06-15-2024 (06-15-2024, 12:27 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: I definitely think that you have no clue what you are talking about. And I don't have to come up with strawmans to make my case. Stats cannot hurt you. You are free to offer me reasons why all the metrics that people use to determine good/bad defense don't apply in Simons unique case. I definitely think you have no clue what you are talking about when it concerns Simons. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Vezenkov+Kings Are Done - Luka77 - 06-15-2024 (06-15-2024, 12:38 AM)mvossman Wrote: They got to the finals because of their defense. The PJ comparisons have to stop. There was way more reason to believe PJ defense would improve and his level of improvement was an outlier. Okay I guess the Mavs couldnt have used more offense during the OKC series. No I guess Simons is so bad he would have blown up the Mavs entire defense and couldn't have contributed in that series. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Vezenkov+Kings Are Done - dirkfansince1998 - 06-15-2024 (06-15-2024, 12:46 AM)Luka77 Wrote: Okay I guess the Mavs couldnt have used more offense during the OKC series. Another strawman. Do you have anything else to offer or should I just put you on ignore? RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Vezenkov+Kings Are Done - Luka77 - 06-15-2024 (06-15-2024, 01:29 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Another strawman. Do you have anything else to offer or should I just put you on ignore? I don't think you even know what a strawman argument other then just to bring it up to make yourself sound like a pseudo intellectual. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Vezenkov+Kings Are Done - Luka77 - 06-15-2024 Im going to say this again, the easiest way for the Mavs to improve this offseason is for them to add a combo guard. There are no two way guards that are available for what the Mavs have to offer. The Mavs aren't that far from winning a championship. Right now I believe many of these combo guards will be under valued. A undervalued player is something the Mavs will have to find inorder to upgrade this roster. If someone has better options please list them. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Vezenkov+Kings Are Done - RGP1981 - 06-15-2024 (06-15-2024, 02:24 AM)Luka77 Wrote: Im going to say this again, the easiest way for the Mavs to improve this offseason is for them to add a combo guard. There are no two way guards that are available for what the Mavs have to offer. Anfernee isn't undervalued though... he's being paid $25,892,857 next season. Someone who is undervalued... Coby White... who is being paid $12,000,000 next season. So, it would be easier for the Mavericks to send out matching salary for Coby White (let's say THJ goes out in a hypothetical trade)... and then still have contracts left to send out for another upgrade too, for example, swapping Josh Green for Caruso or Thybulle. Or vice versa. Anyway, I like the idea of adding another high-level combo guard (rather than rely on Hardy or THJ to be that)... not to play alongside Luka and Kyrie though... but to come off the bench or step in when one of Luka/Kyrie is injured, so the Mavericks can hopefully always have two reliable creators/scorers on the court. Also, to be a replacement for Kyrie in the future as he ages (which rules out players like CJ McCollum, who is too old... and also way overpaid). |