(06-14-2024, 09:15 PM)Luka77 Wrote: Everyone that says you can't play Kyrie-Simons-Luka together

How does these lineups match up against each other offensively and defensively:

6'4 Hoilday-6'2 Kyrie
6'4 White-6'3 Simons
6'6 Brown-6'7 Doncic

Im not seeing the big disadvantage. 

Don't tell me a Kyrie, Simons, Luka lineup couldn't compete with that lineup.

(06-14-2024, 09:34 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Three all-NBA level defenders that can at least guard 1-3 (if you watched the last few games and think that Holiday and White aren't playing much bigger than their listed size I cannot help you) vs three guys that get the easiest matchup on defense in most games. That's the difference.

(06-14-2024, 09:45 PM)Luka77 Wrote: Do you think they have an easier time playing defense against two offensive creator or three?

White and Holiday are catch and shoot players.  How will that effect Simons playing defense?  Those guys aren't routinely beating Simons to the rim.

(06-14-2024, 09:34 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Three all-NBA level defenders that can at least guard 1-3 (if you watched the last few games and think that Holiday and White aren't playing much bigger than their listed size I cannot help you) vs three guys that get the easiest matchup on defense in most games. That's the difference.

(06-14-2024, 09:57 PM)Luka77 Wrote: I love how everyone thinks that Boston or the NBA has 4 Kobe Bryant's on the floor and someone like Simons couldn't play defense against that.

(06-14-2024, 09:53 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Both offer more than just catch and shoot ability. Holiday can score in the post. Was able to back down PJ Washington. But I think the main thing that I see isn't about 1v1 or 3v3 matchups. They have to function in a 5v5. As we saw in game 1-3 healthy Celtics rarely (if ever) give up mismatches. Mavs on the other hand would have three targets on the floor.
I don't think you can play another bad/mediocre defender next to Luka and Kyrie for extended minutes. Would ruin the one thing that allowed the Mavs to make a deep playoff run. Team defense with multiple bigger guys that play the gaps, help on drives and offer resistance at the rim.

(06-14-2024, 10:02 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: You all act like Luka, Kyrie and Simons are complete bums on defense. The biggest part about defense is whether you have the brains for it and they do. With Lively/Gafford/DJJ/Washington behind those three, you can certainly get away with it for 10-15 minutes and use it longer if the match-up is favourable. Cause for all their alleged defensive flaws, I have a hard time thinking of a scarier offensive five in the whole league than Luka, Kyrie, Simons, Washington and Lively, especially if Lively starts shooting threes. How do you defend that? So even if this was the worst defense ever than it´s also the best offense ever.

(06-14-2024, 10:07 PM)Luka77 Wrote: Three targets?  Kyrie and Luka haven't been bad guarding their matchups in this series.  The Mavs have lacked offense this series.  Mavs are losing bc of lack of offense, nothing else.

Boston offensive system has been beat you man off the dribble have defenders rotate and kick out to an open man.  Basically anyone on the floor to defend in this series has to know their rotations, Iam thinking someone like Simons can do that.

(06-14-2024, 10:14 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Mavs had the best offense ever under RC and it did not translate to playoff success. Mavs finally have a good defense. There is potential to improve the offense without nuking the defense.

Anfernee Simons ranks last in DEPM in the entire NBA. Has the worst defensive on/off numbers on his team. Offers no relevant boxscore production on defense. I really don't see it. My eyetest tells me that he is a horrible defender. Stats/metrics rank him as one of the worst (maybe the worst) defender in the entire league.
But for some reason I am supposed to think that he can turn it around if he plays most of his minutes next to Luka and Kyrie (not terrible defenders but more often than not the Mavs try to hide them).

(06-14-2024, 10:36 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: Yeah maybe this year. I already posted his numbers from 2022 and 2023, where he was a significant net positive on/off defensively and overall, but sure you can ignore all those numbers and nit-pick a tanking season he played 46 games to prove he is the worst defensive player in the league.

I get it you all have Dwight Powell - THJ  frontcourt PTSD. The reason we were shit on defense for a decade was that we had shit defenders not guys like DJJ; Washington, Lively, Kleber and Gafford. Those five are literally in the top 6 (with DFS) of the best frontcourt defenders on the Mavs in the last 13 years.  Shocking that no offense can overcome a defense of THJ - Mummy Dirk and Dwight Powell.

I´m done with this discussion. It leads nowhere. Hopefully I don´t have to wait another 13 years to be proven right again.

(06-14-2024, 10:18 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Luka is getting the easiest matchup in every series and teams try to go after him. He has done a much better job in the first three series but you don't want him as the primary defender against great perimeter scorers. Same for Kyrie. With the added bonus that he isn't as versatile and cannot guard bigger guys. Simons plays even smaller than Kyrie and is a worse on ball defender. If all three are playing together at least one of them. Most likely two will have to defend good/great perimeter scorers.

(06-14-2024, 09:34 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Three all-NBA level defenders that can at least guard 1-3 (if you watched the last few games and think that Holiday and White aren't playing much bigger than their listed size I cannot help you) vs three guys that get the easiest matchup on defense in most games. That's the difference.

(06-14-2024, 10:46 PM)Luka77 Wrote: Again Holiday and White are perimeter shooters. They are not routinely beating their man off the ball. Their offense comes off of secondary action.   Luka and Kyrie are going to get beat off the dribble some of the time, it's how the rest of the defense reacts as a group.  

Regardless the Mavs problem hasn't been on more defensive.   It's been more offense.

The Mavs offense gets drastically better with another ball handler/creator in the lineup.

(06-14-2024, 10:56 PM)Luka77 Wrote: Those three all NBA defenders got destroyed by the Pacers just like other teams they depend on playing defense as a collective and that is much harder to do when you have three players on the floor that can create offense.

(06-14-2024, 10:57 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Holiday scored 26pts on 4 3PA attempts just a few days ago but he is just a perimeter shooter.
But you are almost there. Team defense is more important than individual defense. Everyone is getting beat off the dribble. That's why it is so important to limit the amount of mismatches and make sure that you have multiple good help/team defenders on the floor. For the Mavs that's mostly about DJJ and PJ. Two big and switchable wings/forwards that can cover a lot of ground. Replacing one of them with a defensive liability is the best way to undo all the improvements we saw over the last 2-3 month.
Why should the Mavs risk that. Simons would cost a lot. For the same price you can probably get a DJJ/PJ upgrade that can do more on offense if you desperately want to use multiple picks in the offseason.

(06-14-2024, 11:02 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: You mean the series where the "catch&shoot" players averaged 16/5/7 and 18/7/6. Where Holiday had game winning steals in two games.
It's great that you realize that defense is a team effort. But just like it is harder to defend against three players that can create on offense it is harder to defend when you have three guys that have defensive short comings.

(06-14-2024, 11:09 PM)Luka77 Wrote: Hoilday scored his points in the dunker spot which came from ball movement.  That requires proper rotations (ie team defense) and not letting Brown and Tatum beating you off the dribble.

Please tell me who that realistic offensive upgrade from DJJ/PJ is.

(06-14-2024, 11:14 PM)Luka77 Wrote: Kyrie nor Luka are not terrible defenders with the proper effort. They just need to keep their man in front of them.  

The Mavs defense for the most part is predicted on having 2 shot blockers and having lengthy on defense.  Its usually funnel to the shot blocker.  That doesn't change with adding Simons.