(05-03-2024, 05:59 PM)F Gump Wrote: Isn't Harris's desirability almost entirely linked to his contract? It's not like he can't play.

I've hated the idea of him, on that awful max deal he's had forever. But he is a solid starter, so if he's paid like that (or even paid LESS than that price range), it seems like he would be a plus.

I see him as the mirror opposite of PJW (and perhaps a case study in how NBA pricing works). The value in TH is that he gives you solid (but not great) scoring on a fairly consistent basis, and he's not awful on defense. So you get some fairly reliable help on one end, and hope he also makes plays on defense so that he's approaching two-way.

In comparison, I think I could fairly write a PJW evaluation with the same words I used for TH, but just switch ends of the floor. 
"The value in TH PJW is that he gives you solid (but not great) scoring defense on a fairly consistent basis, and he's not awful on defense offense. So you get some fairly reliable help on one end, and hope he also makes plays on defense offense so that he's approaching two-way." I think the value for them is about the same, just with different pluses and minuses.

I think that's a fair comp, and that it also demonstrates how salary skews greatly to offense. The point being, since anyone halfway decent on offense gets the max anyhow, you are better to pay about the same (the max) for someone like Luka and Kyrie, and then you can fill in around them with players whose price tag is modest because you don't need offense to be their strength.

That having been said, would love to have TH too, if he was priced like PJW or less (although I don't see any way to acquire him). But I think he'll go for way more money than I would want to pay, because teams like to pay big for players who can score.

(05-03-2024, 06:04 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: Love your contributions to the board, F Gump, and always look forward to reading your stuff. In this case, however, methinks you are grossly underrating PJ's defense. He's been golden for the Mavs.

(05-03-2024, 05:59 PM)F Gump Wrote: Isn't Harris's desirability almost entirely linked to his contract? It's not like he can't play.

I've hated the idea of him, on that awful max deal he's had forever. But he is a solid starter, so if he's paid like other solid starters (or even paid LESS than their typical price range) rather than at that bloated max level, it seems like he would be a plus.

I see him as the mirror opposite of PJW (and perhaps a case study in how NBA pricing works). The value in TH is that he gives you solid (but not great) scoring on a fairly consistent basis, and he's not awful on defense. So you get some fairly reliable help on one end, and hope he also makes plays on defense so that he's approaching two-way.

In comparison, I think I could fairly write a PJW evaluation with the same words I used for TH, but just switch ends of the floor. 
"The value in TH PJW is that he gives you solid (but not great) scoring defense on a fairly consistent basis, and he's not awful on defense offense. So you get some fairly reliable help on one end, and hope he also makes plays on defense offense so that he's approaching two-way." I think the value for them is about the same, just with different pluses and minuses.

I think that's a fair comp, and that it also demonstrates how salary skews greatly to offense. The point being, since anyone halfway decent on offense gets the max anyhow, you are better to pay about the same (the max) for someone like Luka and Kyrie, and then you can fill in around them with players whose price tag is modest because you don't need offense to be their strength.

That having been said, would love to have TH too, if he was priced like PJW or less (although I don't see any way to acquire him). But I think he'll go for way more money than I would want to pay, because teams like to pay big for players who can score.

(05-03-2024, 05:59 PM)F Gump Wrote: Isn't Harris's desirability almost entirely linked to his contract? It's not like he can't play.

I've hated the idea of him, on that awful max deal he's had forever. But he is a solid starter, so if he's paid like other solid starters (or even paid LESS than their typical price range) rather than at that bloated max level, it seems like he would be a plus.

I see him as the mirror opposite of PJW (and perhaps a case study in how NBA pricing works). The value in TH is that he gives you solid (but not great) scoring on a fairly consistent basis, and he's not awful on defense. So you get some fairly reliable help on one end, and hope he also makes plays on defense so that he's approaching two-way.

In comparison, I think I could fairly write a PJW evaluation with the same words I used for TH, but just switch ends of the floor. 
"The value in TH PJW is that he gives you solid (but not great) scoring defense on a fairly consistent basis, and he's not awful on defense offense. So you get some fairly reliable help on one end, and hope he also makes plays on defense offense so that he's approaching two-way." I think the value for them is about the same, just with different pluses and minuses.

I think that's a fair comp, and that it also demonstrates how salary skews greatly to offense. The point being, since anyone halfway decent on offense gets the max anyhow, you are better to pay about the same (the max) for someone like Luka and Kyrie, and then you can fill in around them with players whose price tag is modest because you don't need offense to be their strength.

That having been said, would love to have TH too, if he was priced like PJW or less (although I don't see any way to acquire him). But I think he'll go for way more money than I would want to pay, because teams like to pay big for players who can score.

(05-06-2024, 10:05 AM)SleepingHero Wrote:

(05-06-2024, 09:49 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: @TheDunkCentral
NBA executive links Devin Booker to the Spurs and Thunder

(05-06-2024, 10:30 AM)omahen Wrote: Didn't Booker just said he wants to be in Phoenix forever. Also the owner seems to continue with the all-in approach. I think things would have to go terribly wrong in Phoenix to change course this summer. Booker also just signed his new deal and is locked for four more years. Phoenix owner just doesn't look like a guy that would have any interest in a long and painful rebuild. Perhaps  things go bad next season, if they totally fail again. Things failing again is very likely, though.

(05-06-2024, 10:10 AM)DallasMaverick Wrote: I think he’ll have problems finding a long-term close-to-max deal. Too old, too fragile.

Well played, Clips.

(05-06-2024, 10:37 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: Damn. Beal makes 150M the next three years. Even Durant is locked in two more years. They are going nowhere literally and figuratively. They just have to upgrade their roster through free agency and hope to hit 1-2 triples. They have no other choice. 36 year old Durant and 32 year old Beal as a 1-2 punch would not even get you in the play-offs. I think they´d be a 9-10 seed at best and lose in the play-in. So agree 100%. No major changes coming.

(05-06-2024, 11:01 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: @TheDunkCentral
There is mutual interest between the Magic and Klay Thompson, per
@ShamsCharania

(05-06-2024, 10:39 AM)omahen Wrote: Agree. The series against Dallas showed that George is a very good player, but he is far from being capable of carrying the team as the lead guy. He can shoot, he is good on defense, but his creation ability at his age is very limited. DJJ hounded him whole series and he just didn't have an answer. Luka for example was not shooting well, but he still had a very strong impact on the team. I don't think I could say that about George. He only had impact a couple of games with unsustainable hot shooting, hitting some extremely tough shots. But, that is not consistent. 

At this stage of career he is probably an elite 3-D wing. He can shoot, he can create some, he can play defense. But, those guys rarely get max deals, especially at the age where his impact is far more likely to be lower with each year than higher or even at same level. Perhaps a team like Philly could see him as a missing piece and overpay for his services for a couple of years window with their star in the prime. He would be an excellent fit next to Maxey and Embiid, as long as he can stay healthy. 

It is very unlikely that Clippers are getting anywhere with this core. They had plenty of opportunities and never delivered. If George walks for nothing, what can they do? Cash in on Leonard, Powell, Zubac and Mann (all 27 or older) and start what will be probably a long and painful rebuild? None of those guys is likely to bring a supertalented young star in the making, that could allow a quick rebuild. Zero talented youngsters on the team. 

It will be an interesting summer.

(05-06-2024, 11:08 AM)DallasMaverick Wrote: I'll bet they are really regretting that Kawhi extension right now, as well.

Very difficult to rebuild around that kind of payroll roadblock.

In the current NBA, it just really hurts to have non-performing payroll.  Can't swing and miss.

(05-06-2024, 11:41 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: Unpopular opinion, but I bet they’re not regretting it.

We, general NBA fans, are worn out waiting for the Clippers to realize the promise of this era, so I imagine their fan base is even more frustrated. 

BUT, as ludicrous as it might seem, if they simply bring back George and Harden, and maybe get off of Westbrook and Tucker somehow, they’re guaranteed stretches of dominant play where they look like top shelf contenders, and by the end of the season, people will be taking them seriously again. If they’re finally healthy at the right time, who knows?

Will that best case scenario happen? Probably not. We know it, they know it. But, they’ll win 50, and it’s not like they have a path to anything better. It’s their only play, imho.

(05-06-2024, 11:41 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: Unpopular opinion, but I bet they’re not regretting it.

We, general NBA fans, are worn out waiting for the Clippers to realize the promise of this era, so I imagine their fan base is even more frustrated. 

BUT, as ludicrous as it might seem, if they simply bring back George and Harden, and maybe get off of Westbrook and Tucker somehow, they’re guaranteed stretches of dominant play where they look like top shelf contenders, and by the end of the season, people will be taking them seriously again. If they’re finally healthy at the right time, who knows?

Will that best case scenario happen? Probably not. We know it, they know it. But, they’ll win 50, and it’s not like they have a path to anything better. It’s their only play, imho.