Trade & FA 2023-24: PHX Wants Lebron+Bronny| Jazz to Shop Collins - Printable Version +- MavsBoard (https://www.mavsboard.com) +-- Forum: Boards (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=1) +--- Forum: Dallas Mavericks and the NBA (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=2) +--- Thread: Trade & FA 2023-24: PHX Wants Lebron+Bronny| Jazz to Shop Collins (/showthread.php?tid=2444) Pages:
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RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein: Lakers have had most talks w/Hawks over Murray - SleepingHero - 01-26-2024 (@esidery) The Wizards have a mandate from ownership to acquire more draft picks at the trade deadline, per @WindhorstESPN (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/brian-windhorst-the-hoop-collective/id293376147?i=1000643053670): “They have to do this. That’s a mandate.” Tyus Jones and Deni Avdija were two players mentioned generating interest on the market. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein: Lakers have had most talks w/Hawks over Murray - surfpuckmd - 01-26-2024 (01-25-2024, 11:03 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: I’m a fan. I also like certain things about trading with Washington. I’ve mentioned their TPE that covers either Holmes or GWill. I’ll also point out that Shamet has a pretty sweet contract. NG next season (decision by 6/29). Then a TO the season after that. A good GM could to a lot with that kind of contract and a TPE. It's hard to know if Avdija is really available for trade or not. He's one of only two young, promising players on that roster (Coulibaly is the other). Although it's been reported that the Wizards are trying to acquire first-round picks, I'm not sure that means that everyone is available. If he is, then he's almost the ideal player we should target. He's an above-average defender and rebounder. He can handle the ball a bit and his shooting is up to 37% from 3 this season. He's improved markedly this year. He's only 23 and likely to improve. He's clearly worth our unprotected 2027 1st. The issue is that I'm not certain that would be enough. I'm also not certain he's actually available. I think he'd be worth the 2027 1st-round pick as well as OMax if that would be the price. It would also be great if we could include the Holmes contract and get Shamet in return. I would propose the following trade: Magic get THJ Wizards get Gary Harris Jr. (expiring), Richaun Holmes, OMax, second-round pick from Orlando, Mavs 2027 unprotected 1st Mavericks acquire Deni Avdija, Landry Shamet and Delon Wright. We acquire a fourth quality starter with the potential to improve. We gain some cap flexibility for the coming summer. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: WAS mandate to get more picks this TDL - SleepingHero - 01-26-2024 Okay I did it so you don't have to. I actually watched 5 Wizards games. I picked 5 random games from the calendar without looking at the boxscore. Of course they were all losses, but I really wanted to see how Deni performed. The Good
The Bad
Overall Deni is a high quality role player. A great 5th-6th man. I don't think he's a starter on a championship team. To give up a 2027 1st for him to me is like giving up a 1st for a bigger Josh Green. Not a bad player, but a severe overpay and is more a finishing move. Now if we could get him for 2 2nds? Sure I'm down. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein: Lakers have had most talks w/Hawks over Murray - DanSchwartzgan - 01-26-2024 (01-26-2024, 01:53 AM)MarkAguirreWrathofGod Wrote: Bulls GM: “we’ll take Cade! No? Ok, no problem Duren! No to him too huh? Ok Ausar! No Ausar? Ok I guess Ivey it is.” Stein has a piece out just now that says he’s told this deal may happen sooner than later. He doesn’t think it will be any of the youngsters other than possibly Ivey. Does Chicago really need Bogdanovic? Seems silly from a talent standpoint. Seems OK from a cap management standpoint, but is the smart play here to be a buyer in free agency? If Stein is being told this might happen soon, is the whisper coming from Dallas? Could we be in on Bogdanovic + (maybe Drummond or Caruso or Carter or something). Dallas makes more sense for Bogdanovic that Chicago IMHO. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: WAS mandate to get more picks this TDL - BigDirk41 - 01-26-2024 Giving up a first needs to be for someone that moves the needle with this team. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein: Lakers have had most talks w/Hawks over Murray - omahen - 01-26-2024 (01-26-2024, 12:00 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Stein has a piece out just now that says he’s told this deal may happen sooner than later. He doesn’t think it will be any of the youngsters other than possibly Ivey. They don't need Bogi, they want to get rid of LaVine and they need to get some contracts back. We could likely get in as third team, but it would cost assets. I don't have any interest in Bogi, he doesn't solve our needs, even if he is better player than THJ. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: WAS mandate to get more picks this TDL - SleepingHero - 01-26-2024 Evan Sidery (@esidery) The Suns have shown trade interest in Royce O’Neale, per @JakeLFischer (https://sports.yahoo.com/how-the-terry-rozier-trade-has-reset-the-point-guard-market-163709399.html). Phoenix is shopping Nassir Little and second-round picks looking for a wing upgrade. Evan Sidery (@esidery) The Knicks, Lakers and Rockets have expressed trade interest in Malcolm Brogdon, per @JakeLFischer (https://sports.yahoo.com/how-the-terry-rozier-trade-has-reset-the-point-guard-market-163709399.html). The Trail Blazers are seeking at least a first-round pick for Brogdon. NBACentral (@TheDunkCentral) The Utah Jazz are showing interest in Miles Bridges, per @JakeLFischer (Via http://yhoo.it/3HyqUdv) RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: WAS mandate to get more picks this TDL - Scott41theMavs - 01-26-2024 (01-26-2024, 12:01 PM)BigDirk41 Wrote: Giving up a first needs to be for someone that moves the needle with this team. From my "ideal roles" thread, it needs to be for someone who is in the 4-5 range. My divergence from omahen is that there is zero path to a 3 with the assets we have. Miles Bridges would be a possibility, if we 1) had zero conscience and 2) didn't have the history of bad optics in these areas (not to mention a wife-beating coach). RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: WAS mandate to get more picks this TDL - omahen - 01-26-2024 (01-26-2024, 12:21 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: From my "ideal roles" thread, it needs to be for someone who is in the 4-5 range. My divergence from omahen is that there is zero path to a 3 with the assets we have. Miles Bridges would be a possibility, if we 1) had zero conscience and 2) didn't have the history of bad optics in these areas (not to mention a wife-beating coach). I think you missunderstood me a bit. I think there is highly unlikely to get number 3 with our assets. But I prefer to wait till offseason than pay 2027 for a meh player hoping to become something more with us. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: WAS mandate to get more picks this TDL - Chicagojk - 01-26-2024 It seems like most of the teams looking to trade are looking for firsts. Even for guys who are nothing more than solid rotation pieces. We will see if the asking price comes down. With a weak draft, some teams may be willing to forfeit a first round draft pick this year. But there are not a lot of teams flush with mulitple picks. If the trading teams do not lower their demands, it may help the Mavs. Maybe not this deadline because Dallas doesn't have expirings, but maybe this offseason where we will have guys entering expiring plus 3 picks. Something like a first and Holmes for Deni and two firsts, asset, Hardaway and stuff for Grant. Getting two players for those three picks instead of one. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: WAS mandate to get more picks this TDL - Scott41theMavs - 01-26-2024 (01-26-2024, 12:24 PM)omahen Wrote: I think you missunderstood me a bit. I think there is highly unlikely to get number 3 with our assets. But I prefer to wait till offseason than pay 2027 for a meh player hoping to become something more with us. OK, then I definitely misunderstood your perspective. Your take, then, is that we don't need to improve around the edges, but to strengthen the core of the roster. I took that to mean that you were saying they needed to get someone great (3-esque) at the deadline. You're saying, no, wait until the offseason. Is that right? If that's the case, you're on much the same page KL is. My perspective would be that 1) no trade is likely to help the Mavs win more games/get farther in the playoffs this year, but 2) they need to take much the same tack they did this past summer - long-view, opportunistic moves that make us better long term. Shrewdness and maximization of assets. Their path to improvement this year imho is 1) fire Kidd today, hire Adrian (Mav vet!) as the interim coach, and go big game hunting for a top five coach this summer (won't happen, but it's the clear move *today*), 2) play OMax at least 10 mpg of non-garbage time the rest of the year - develop the man, because his ceiling is just what we need, 3) if someone wants to give us something better-fitting and more useful at the deadline than Holmes, GW, Green, or Hardy without us sending out 27, do that. (01-26-2024, 12:29 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: It seems like most of the teams looking to trade are looking for firsts. Even for guys who are nothing more than solid rotation pieces. We will see if the asking price comes down. With a weak draft, some teams may be willing to forfeit a first round draft pick this year. But there are not a lot of teams flush with mulitple picks. If the trading teams do not lower their demands, it may help the Mavs. Maybe not this deadline because Dallas doesn't have expirings, but maybe this offseason where we will have guys entering expiring plus 3 picks. Something like a first and Holmes for Deni and two firsts, asset, Hardaway and stuff for Grant. Getting two players for those three picks instead of one. I'm not sold on Grant as a 2 FRP guy. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: WAS mandate to get more picks this TDL - Chicagojk - 01-26-2024 (01-26-2024, 12:37 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: OK, then I definitely misunderstood your perspective. Your take, then, is that we don't need to improve around the edges, but to strengthen the core of the roster. I took that to mean that you were saying they needed to get someone great (3-esque) at the deadline. You're saying, no, wait until the offseason. Is that right? If that's the case, you're on much the same page KL is. That is ok. Just an example of getting two guys instead of 1 this summer. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: WAS mandate to get more picks this TDL - surfpuckmd - 01-26-2024 (01-26-2024, 11:49 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: Okay I did it so you don't have to. I actually watched 5 Wizards games. I picked 5 random games from the calendar without looking at the boxscore. Of course they were all losses, but I really wanted to see how Deni performed. I like your post but disagree with your conclusion. Deni is similar to Josh only he's much bigger, rebounds much better and is a significantly better defensive player. So, not very similar at all. Josh has the potential to be an excellent defensive player but remains below average defensively on all the metrics including EPM, LEBRON and DRIP. They are similar in that they are not stars and aren't high usage players. We need an elite role player and that's what Deni has the potential to become. As he is currently, Deni would be the 4th or 5th best player on the Mavericks. He would be an upgrade over DJJ and a massive upgrade over Grant Williams. He's also only 23 and is much better this season than he was last season. You have to pay something for potential in this case. I don't think Deni is the best player we could add to this roster. However, I think he is among the best players who are potentially available that we can afford. There are approximately 20 teams who would like to improve at the deadline and only 4 or 5 who look to be open to trading their players. Adding talent is currently very expensive. I watched this board debate for two months whether or not Siakam would be a good fit here or not. The vast majority of this board argued that we could obtain him for our 2027 1st and some crap contracts. Ultimately, Toronto secured 3-first round picks and a good player on a flexible contract for him. We never had the assets to be taken seriously there. We actually gave up a 2030 first round pick swap to obtain Grant Williams who was the 8th-best player on the Celtics last season. Acquiring talent is expensive. Acquiring young talent is even more expensive. We've hit a low-point in the current season as we just don't have enough good players next to Luka, Kyrie and Lively to compete with other good teams. We should be attempting to upgrade our role players. Aaron Gordon and KCP are good role players. The Nuggets won the championship with them starting. Many posters are frustrated with Luka lately but I think Luka is surely frustrated being stuck with Grant Williams, Maxi Kleber and Josh Green as key supporting rotation players. I believe Deni Avdija, WCJ, Gafford and Isaiah Stewart are the best players we can potentially afford to acquire before the deadline. I think each of them would probably require our 2027 1st to obtain. There are a lot of good teams with a lot of first-round picks who we would be bidding against. The alternative is to just sit on our current roster and finish somewhere between 7th and 11th in the Western Conference this season. The upside of that is we'd have a new coach for next season. I think we'd also see a lot of Luka Doncic mock trades as well. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: WAS mandate to get more picks this TDL - Chicagojk - 01-26-2024 seems like the type of move we would be able to make. His overpaid Minny days would make him a solid #4 option. His championship run with the Warriors made him a core piece on a contender. The last two years are a big ?. You would think if he can't play well in GS with Kerr, how can you expect him playing better in Dallas with Kidd? Any deal consideration would be no picks and just our spare parts. Not sure I would do it though. https://twitter.com/MavsFilmRoom/status/1750936276721934578 RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: WAS mandate to get more picks this TDL - surfpuckmd - 01-26-2024 (01-26-2024, 12:01 PM)BigDirk41 Wrote: Giving up a first needs to be for someone that moves the needle with this team. We have one first-round pick and a lot of bad contracts. Any player we obtain for that will probably only move the needle a little. We don't have the assets for a big upgrade. (01-26-2024, 01:02 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: seems like the type of move we would be able to make. His overpaid Minny days would make him a solid #4 option. His championship run with the Warriors made him a core piece on a contender. The last two years are a big ?. You would think if he can't play well in GS with Kerr, how can you expect him playing better in Dallas with Kidd? Any deal consideration would be no picks and just our spare parts. Not sure I would do it though. Trading for Wiggins is much worse than doing nothing. He is the primary reason the Warriors are 12th in the West. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: WAS mandate to get more picks this TDL - RoyTarpleysGhost - 01-26-2024 Trading for Wiggins would officially stick a fork in what little hope I have left for this iteration of the Mavs. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: WAS mandate to get more picks this TDL - omahen - 01-26-2024 (01-26-2024, 12:37 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: OK, then I definitely misunderstood your perspective. Your take, then, is that we don't need to improve around the edges, but to strengthen the core of the roster. I took that to mean that you were saying they needed to get someone great (3-esque) at the deadline. You're saying, no, wait until the offseason. Is that right? If that's the case, you're on much the same page KL is. I am saying try for that move now. If it is not there, wait till the offseason. I have no problem if the move is not there at TDL. If Mavs want to use Kyrie window, they have to make the move in the summer. Otherwise trade Kyrie and go for a long-term. Not sure Luka would be for it. (01-26-2024, 01:08 PM)surfpuckmd Wrote: We have one first-round pick and a lot of bad contracts. Any player we obtain for that will probably only move the needle a little. We don't have the assets for a big upgrade. We do have some young players, although I think their value is low. Only realistic hope is if we an trade THJ for expiring and some assets. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: WAS mandate to get more picks this TDL - omahen - 01-26-2024 (01-26-2024, 12:57 PM)surfpuckmd Wrote: I like your post but disagree with your conclusion. Deni is similar to Josh only he's much bigger, rebounds much better and is a significantly better defensive player. So, not very similar at all. Josh has the potential to be an excellent defensive player but remains below average defensively on all the metrics including EPM, LEBRON and DRIP. They are similar in that they are not stars and aren't high usage players. Mavs desperately need a two-way player. Luka and espeially Kyrie miss games. We need someone who can step in in those games. Guys like Avdija are not it. PJ Washington is closer, but I am far from convinced about his defense. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: WAS mandate to get more picks this TDL - KillerLeft - 01-26-2024 (01-26-2024, 01:08 PM)surfpuckmd Wrote: Trading for Wiggins is much worse than doing nothing. (01-26-2024, 01:13 PM)RoyTarpleysGhost Wrote: Trading for Wiggins would officially stick a fork in what little hope I have left for this iteration of the Mavs. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: WAS mandate to get more picks this TDL - Smitty - 01-26-2024 This is what I’d do: Fire Kidd Hire Igor (or insert your favorite) Trade THJ, Gwill, Holmes, SRP for Bridges & Hayward In the offseason trade Kyrie & up to all 3 FRP’s for Lauri & Sexton Sign defensive players. My top two priorities are guys like Kyle Anderson and Hartenstein. But others could include Bruce Brown, Obi Toppin, Royce O’Neal etc Re-sign Bridges You have 2 stars Luka & Lauri 3rd scorer in Bridges who can defend Lively and Hart at C And another defender in Anderson Guys like Exum, Green and Omax as well Sexton as another scorer. Luka | Exum — Lawson Sexton | Green — Hardy Bridges | Omax Lauri | Anderson — Maxi Lively | Hart — Powell |