Trade & FA 2023-24: PHX Wants Lebron+Bronny| Jazz to Shop Collins - Printable Version +- MavsBoard (https://www.mavsboard.com) +-- Forum: Boards (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=1) +--- Forum: Dallas Mavericks and the NBA (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=2) +--- Thread: Trade & FA 2023-24: PHX Wants Lebron+Bronny| Jazz to Shop Collins (/showthread.php?tid=2444) Pages:
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RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Kawhi Frustrated. Zion "Trying my best to buy in" - ItsGoTime - 11-14-2023 I don’t think LAC would get the packages they need to pull the trigger on a firesale. I think with the price they just paid for Harden, PG is the odd man out and they try to get a decent package for him at some point this year. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Kawhi Frustrated. Zion "Trying my best to buy in" - omahen - 11-14-2023 (11-14-2023, 10:59 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: I don’t think LAC would get the packages they need to pull the trigger on a firesale. I think with the price they just paid for Harden, PG is the odd man out and they try to get a decent package for him at some point this year. I agree Clippers will not go into firesale. But, all their "stars" are expiring. And if one (or more) makes it clear he has no intention to resign, they don't have much choice but trade him. As I said - George and Kawhi tend to get where they want to. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Kawhi Frustrated. Zion "Trying my best to buy in" - DallasMaverick - 11-14-2023 (11-14-2023, 11:15 AM)omahen Wrote: I agree Clippers will not go into firesale. But, all their "stars" are expiring. And if one (or more) makes it clear he has no intention to resign, they don't have much choice but trade him. As I said - George and Kawhi tend to get where they want to. The Clippers pushed all their chips in ... and lost. Traded all their present and many future assets away in order to win now. They swung for the fences, but the line drive was a little short. Now, they've got 4 aging (and fragile) former superstars, but no significant building blocks for the future, and no clear path for relevance. He who has ears to hear, let him hear! Lessons to be learned! RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Kawhi Frustrated. Zion "Trying my best to buy in" - mvossman - 11-14-2023 (11-14-2023, 03:19 AM)omahen Wrote: In my opinion this core with even more improved Lively (every year of experience) and very good (if not elite) 2-way wing is a contender. I think that one player would put many guys in the correct role and perhaps create even better impact from certain players. But, he has to be the right fit for this team. I can't imagine how could you put much better rotation players on the bench, other than perhaps just tinkering around the edges for perfect players for specific roles. Mavs problem in all Luka years has always been just lack of top end talent. Too many decent players instead of a couple of great ones and a little lower number of decent ones. Mavs finally have an opportunity to nicely close a top end of the roster with imho just one correct move. I think with a good season and playoff showing this year that 2 way wing for next season has a high potential for reaching contention status. We will have 3 firsts, some young players and salary fodder to make that happen if its there. Depending on the player, he can potentially help ease the hopefully slow decline of Kyrie. Edit: I seem you were also thinking next season vs TDL. That's the path in my mind. Make good progress this season, and go for it next. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Kawhi Frustrated. Zion "Trying my best to buy in" - ItsGoTime - 11-14-2023 I don’t see a reason to forgo the TDL in favor of next offseason. Getting fitting players on the team should be a year-round activity. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Kawhi Frustrated. Zion "Trying my best to buy in" - omahen - 11-14-2023 (11-14-2023, 12:29 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: I don’t see a reason to forgo the TDL in favor of next offseason. Getting fitting players on the team should be a year-round activity. If the opportunity comes, I would of course take. But I think it is more likely to happen in the summer. Something minor might happen at TDL, but I don't think they will spend 2027 on a role player. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Kawhi Frustrated. Zion "Trying my best to buy in" - Jakeospikez - 11-14-2023 I think it's possible OG might be available this TDL if everything falls into place somehow. Raptors would have to be struggling and he would have to tell them they have to trade him because he's not taking the PO and also not resigning under any circumstance, stuff like that. If the Mavs at that point are in win-now mode and the west looks weak, I wonder if they'd be willing to do something like OMax + Green + THJ for salary matching + 2027 1st for OG + Filler. Would need to free up some cap to resign OG at his new big deal next year as well I think. Imo Hardy+Exum can take over THJ's vacated minutes. Hardy has a similar quick trigger to THJ so I don't think much would be lost. If the Raps are struggling even a little, don't see how Siakam isn't moved. They're probably trying to inflate his value right now. I wouldn't give up those assets for Siakam personally though, just OG. Although maybe if they planned on Siakam has a frequent small ball 5, maybe that would be worth it. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Kawhi Frustrated. Zion "Trying my best to buy in" - Mike lorenzo - 11-14-2023 I love OG and I think he is the perfect fit for this team but... I see that this summer his contract could start at 42 million!!! and that's scary, I'm starting to see him differently, he also gets hurt frequently etc.. Maybe the next one would be J.Grant? In my opinion Siakam is a vastly better player than OG...although a worse fit and here we would not get the most out of his abilities RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Kawhi Frustrated. Zion "Trying my best to buy in" - youzigizag - 11-14-2023 (11-14-2023, 01:41 PM)Jakeospikez Wrote: I think it's possible OG might be available this TDL if everything falls into place somehow. Raptors would have to be struggling and he would have to tell them they have to trade him because he's not taking the PO and also not resigning under any circumstance, stuff like that. If the Mavs at that point are in win-now mode and the west looks weak, I wonder if they'd be willing to do something like OMax + Green + THJ for salary matching + 2027 1st for OG + Filler. Would need to free up some cap to resign OG at his new big deal next year as well I think. Imo Hardy+Exum can take over THJ's vacated minutes. Hardy has a similar quick trigger to THJ so I don't think much would be lost. Thats a bit rich for me. OG by all means may be the most valuable player in this deal...most likely certainly is. But Mavs are giving up young potential and a flame thrower that seems to dialed in his defense a little but is also a great culture guy and needed leader in locker room with Kyrie and Dwight. If team evaluations of Omax are terrible and he doesnt fit their Kyrie timeline by holding his hand until he gets playable....and if THJ is not happy being a bench roll player...maybe I pull this trigger. THJ scoring threat, drawing charges, better defensive play and locker room guy plus Green whom is young and hustles and has developed a three shot plus OMax who looks raw but could turn into a defensive stud in this league seems like 2 starting level players plus potential IDEAL MODERN NBA sized wing for 1 player. Gotta give to get. Im just curious if OG is worth 2 cheap players that fit with Luka(Green, THJ) and a possible 3rd on rookie contract that has ideal size and could turn into a defensive stud. Kidd must hate Green's game, THJ is older but spreads the floor for Luka and is playing above his contract or neutral(not a 25M+ cost for 18pts per game and decent defense). Just seems risky even though all 3 players have warts. Maybe Luka, Williams, OG, Lively can get it done. Losing depth though. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Kawhi Frustrated. Zion "Trying my best to buy in" - F Gump - 11-14-2023 Trades at the deadline this year may be weird. And there are consequences of being over aprons when your season ends, even in May-June, that are going to be a real hassle in team building. Some are permanent (such as you lose your TPEs). So some teams won't want to wait until July - when salary rolls off the books - to address it. Also, there will be NO teams in position to take extra salary at no cost (ie, under the minimum). But there is a lot of trade flexibility for teams who are not near the tax line to take a BIG multiple of extra salary in trade. So there may be a LOT of activity, and perhaps some useful players on the move, followed by buyouts or maybe even decent players being rerouted to a 3rd team. In May-June and after, trades start to get really tricky for higher salary teams. Some of the rules will lower the match to force teams to take back less salary, or will keep players from being combined to match another salary, will prohibit SNTs outgoing as well as incoming, will keep teams from having and using TPEs, etc. That's something coming as well. Somewhere in all of that, obviously the Mavs would try to move Holmes, if he's not going to be used, but I'm not sure how that trade looks. I don't see them using FRP if the ONLY benefit is being shed of Holmes. I think of McGee and how their focused intentions on him led to nothing. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Kawhi Frustrated. Zion "Trying my best to buy in" - Jakeospikez - 11-14-2023 (11-14-2023, 03:19 AM)omahen Wrote: In any case, Mavs have imho about 2-year window with Kyrie. If one doesn't believe they can build a contender in this window, than he should start making plans about how a contender without Irving (or Irving in a reduced capacity and role) would look like. We would be suddenly dealing with a whole different puzzle to solve. 2-way wings are always good to have, but we would need to bring in another star to replace Kyrie. And these tend to be way more difficult to get. Don't agree with the 2 year Kyrie window. He's 31 and has shown no signs of slowing down. Lillard is 33 right now and playing perfectly fine. KD is 35. Imo it's more like a 4 year window barring a major injury somewhere inbetween. If OG is looking for 42 mil then yeah, easily out on that. I think Collins would be great here, too bad they couldn't find a way to get that done this offseason. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Shams: Bulls looking to trade Lavine? Big changes in CHI coming? - SleepingHero - 11-15-2023 @ShamsCharania Developing: NBA teams are probing the availability of Bulls two-time All-Star Zach LaVine and there is increased openness from both sides about exploring a trade, sources say. https://streamable.com/ct7jci Shams says here that the Lakers, 76ers, and Miami Heat are expected to consider a trade for LaVine. Bulls beat writer also said this: @DarnellMayberry One league source told me this week the Bulls won't have the same roster in a month. Change feels imminent in Chicago. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Shams: Bulls looking to trade Lavine? Big changes in CHI coming? - DanSchwartzgan - 11-15-2023 (11-15-2023, 01:06 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: @ShamsCharania Confirmed. Duffy client and fellow Balkan Boy, Nicola Vucevic coming to Dallas. JamesConway912 - JamesConway912 - 11-15-2023 Depends on the role. If it ends up being Vuceving starting and playing 30mpg with Lively/Powell/Kleber fighting for the C-scraps behind him = ugh If Lively keeps his starting & high minutes role and Vucevic basically splits the 48 Center minutes with him 50/50 then I’d be all on board. Powell would be turned into a third stringer though and Kleber would have to play PF almost exclusively. I’d be okay with both but Lively has been so good this early that he has absolutely earned his spot. You can not ruin that now by forcing a 30+ year old non difference maker ahead of him into the rotation. Irving | Exum Doncic | Hardy | Curry Jones Jr | Green | Omax Williams | Kleber | Morris Lively | Vucevic | Powell | Holmes Hardaway would be going out and be replaced internally. I am not as high on Hardy as others around here but it would make sense to free up minutes for him. If he fails to succeed you’d still have Exum/Curry/Green to replace him, should be alright. Besides the physicality and skill Vucevic would bring he’s also - at times - been a very good shooter from the C spot. That’s something we could REALLY use. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Shams: Bulls looking to trade Lavine? Big changes in CHI coming? - KillerLeft - 11-15-2023 (11-15-2023, 03:09 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Confirmed. Duffy client and fellow Balkan Boy, Nicola Vucevic coming to Dallas. Not into this idea, exactly, but would prefer it to some of the other bigs mentioned. Vucevic would make this offense even more lethal, and would give them an entirely different way to play. RE: JamesConway912 - DanSchwartzgan - 11-15-2023 (11-15-2023, 06:44 AM)JamesConway912 Wrote: Depends on the role. Agree with all you said except I'm envisioning the outgoing being Holmes/Pick instead of THJ. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Shams: Bulls looking to trade Lavine? Big changes in CHI coming. - Nowitzki Way - 11-15-2023 I'd be on board for Vucevic. Especially if the price is Holmes or Hardaway. I think he slots in nicely to take those Center minutes when Lively is not on the floor. I'm sure Vuc starts and Lively comes off the bench for now. RE: JamesConway912 - Mavs2021 - 11-15-2023 Breaking down that Bulls team is a mess. The individual numbers of DeRozan, Vucevic and Lavine are career-worst levels. Go figure out what is situational and what is age for example. Take DeRozan. I think he is a super-reliable pro´s pro that is rarely injured. That also means that at age 34, he´s played the 9th most career games amongst active players. The only starter that has played more games is LeBron, who is taking a two week vacation every January and is judged by a different set of rules. Positives: - Ultimate professional - Position of need - Expiring contract, no long-term commitment Negatives: - Lots of mileage - Position of need, but not necessarily skills of need (aka defense) Take Vucevic. He´s basically the center version of DeRozan (age, games played, strengths and weaknesses). Only difference is that with his age and Lively´s level of play, it would be a designated bench role coming at 60/3 deal, that is pretty hefty for that specific assignment and could hamper your future roster building. Interior bench scoring/rebounding are positional needs. Yet you still have a lack of defense. One positive from the Grant Williams interview was the takeaway that the Mavs had finally (?) started to work on a deal with Duffy for months before the S&T materialized and I´m pretty confident the same is the case here. They´ll have very good info on Vucevic. Maybe they were happy to gamble on Lively starting, and temporarily keeping Holmes, because they already knew Vucevic was going to become an option and the Mavs were a preferred destination. I seriously doubt his demand around the league will be very high, especially compared to Lavine and DeRozan. Usually contenders don´t look for big "dinosaur" centers that have a bad defensive reputation and rebuilding teams have no use for 33 years old with three years left on their contract. Honestly think Holmes + Kleber + 2nd round pick should be enough here. Bulls can turn Kleber into additional minor assets. RE: JamesConway912 - DanSchwartzgan - 11-15-2023 (11-15-2023, 08:15 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: Given Luka's young age, I suspect there will be era's within his tenure here (like the Finley/Nash era of Dirk's career). I like that Vuc is 3 years which matches Kyrie and is out of the way before you have to extend Lively. Maybe the next few years you have vets like Irving, Vucevic and THJ in your top 8 while you let the kids season some more. We have some data on Vucevic and DJJ playing together (D-Rating of 109 last year and 108.5 the season before). Whether that is a bench tandem or a starting tandem (short term), there probably are ways to get the Vuc positives without being just awful defensively. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Shams: Bulls looking to trade Lavine? Big changes in CHI coming. - Nowitzki Way - 11-15-2023 When i think about adding a Center, i think about no more Powell. That is a positive within itself. So while Vuc may not fit the age or defensive profile we want. He's better than Dwight Powell. Lively may start all season, but he will not stay on the court long. Especially come playoff time. He has issues with fouling, even in college. The refs seem to hate this guy. We're going to need someone productive for those non-Lively minutes. |