Trade & FA 2023-24: PHX Wants Lebron+Bronny| Jazz to Shop Collins - Printable Version +- MavsBoard (https://www.mavsboard.com) +-- Forum: Boards (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=1) +--- Forum: Dallas Mavericks and the NBA (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=2) +--- Thread: Trade & FA 2023-24: PHX Wants Lebron+Bronny| Jazz to Shop Collins (/showthread.php?tid=2444) Pages:
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RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Wood signs 2yr/5.3mil deal w/LAL| D.Green back to PHI - KillerLeft - 09-17-2023 (09-17-2023, 01:03 PM)surfpuckmd Wrote: My other hope is the Mavericks stop trading picks and start drafting more players. I'd like us to find our own elite role players in the draft. It's difficult to draft stars when you're not in the lottery. We don't need stars though. We need good role players. Those are usually available outside the top 14 picks. For sure, especially since they have low key gotten pretty good at drafting, recently. I won't go so far as to say "don't trade picks" but then again, they don't have many left as it is, and that's because they've been giving them away like cans of Liquid Death after a rock concert. They definitely need to stop doing that. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Wood signs 2yr/5.3mil deal w/LAL| D.Green back to PHI - Ghost of Podkolzin - 09-17-2023 (09-17-2023, 01:03 PM)surfpuckmd Wrote: Tari Eason would be perfect here. Hopefully, OMax becomes our Tari Eason My other hope is the Mavericks stop trading picks and start drafting more players. I'd like us to find our own elite role players in the draft. It's difficult to draft stars when you're not in the lottery. We don't need stars though. We need good role players. Those are usually available outside the top 14 picks. I think OMax can be that player *if he develops a 3pt shot. 33%3pt would keep him in the 8-man rotation. OMax is taller than OG and bigger than Eason. If/when we can start OMax at the 3, he replaces Green/THJ in the starting lineup with insane size. I want to see him play POA on defense. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Wood signs 2yr/5.3mil deal w/LAL| D.Green back to PHI - surfpuckmd - 09-17-2023 (09-17-2023, 01:07 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: For sure, especially since they have low key gotten pretty good at drafting, recently. I would like them to use future picks only if a player becomes available at a trade discount- like how we obtained Kyrie. Otherwise, I'd rather hold them and use them. I think having young players on cost-controlled contracts is great for salary cap purposes. It's also more fun as a fan to see young players improve and develop. i personally really enjoy the draft as well. It's more fun when my teams have draft picks to use. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Wood signs 2yr/5.3mil deal w/LAL| D.Green back to PHI - surfpuckmd - 09-17-2023 (09-17-2023, 04:56 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: I think OMax can be that player *if he develops a 3pt shot. 33%3pt would keep him in the 8-man rotation. OMax is taller than OG and bigger than Eason. There's no telling who he'll become. I hope he becomes Anunoby defensively but less aggressive offensively. Statistically though, it's more likely he's out of the NBA in 4 years. That's just what history tells us. We shouldn't trade Green and THJ just because we have OMax on the roster. Let's see how he develops then make those decisions near the trade deadline or next season. If he looks good, we can make a consolidation trade later. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Wood signs 2yr/5.3mil deal w/LAL| D.Green back to PHI - myconsumerclub - 09-18-2023 Green Grant at SF is ok for now till OMax evolves into the 2nd coming of the Matrix. I think we need to focus the first half of the season on testing and seeing what we have first. You can always make trades at the TDL when a need is made evident but we have to know what those needs are first. Lively may beast on day one. Assuming he will not is wrong and you see most teams taking similar approaches now so the market for trades is somewhat down. OMax may be more of a PF anyway so he has to find his place to fit in. Personally I like the Dirk style PF and would love to find another one of those. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Wood signs 2yr/5.3mil deal w/LAL| D.Green back to PHI - Ghost of Podkolzin - 09-18-2023 We have to get a LOT more rebounding from our frontcourt. We were the last in rebounding last season. Of the top 10 teams in wins, only one has a REB% lower than 50%. We were 47.1%. I'm not saying we need to be HOU, but we to be around 50% (average). G.Williams - below average Powell - terrible Maxi - terrible Holmes - above average OMax - average (?) Lively - average (?) Luka - stud One of the many reasons I consider Luka a PSF. He's not like R.Westbrook; he's not out of position or stealing rebounds from teammates. Our backcourt is a terrible rebounding backcourt, even worse if you consider THJ and J.Green as SFs. IMO, the best solution is to get a stud rebounder at SF who could also be our POA defender. Tari Eason has an insane REB%. I have two questions: 1. Could Eason be our POA defender? 2. Could Eason be had for something like THJ/J.Green/27FRP for KPJ/Eason? RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Wood signs 2yr/5.3mil deal w/LAL| D.Green back to PHI - surfpuckmd - 09-18-2023 (09-18-2023, 08:54 AM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: We have to get a LOT more rebounding from our frontcourt. We were the last in rebounding last season. Of the top 10 teams in wins, only one has a REB% lower than 50%. We were 47.1%. I'm not saying we need to be HOU, but we to be around 50% (average). I like Eason but that would be an overpay. I don't believe he's worth that. I agree that a rebounding small forward would fit well here. A rebounding big would be even better though. I like Josh Hart as a guy who would fit well as a small forward. Maybe the Knicks will unexpectedly struggle and want to get off of that contract. I think an inexpensive center is likely our best bet for our rebounding woes. Andre Drummond would fit that bill nicely. The Bulls are a good candidate to disappoint. Derozan is 34 and Vucevic is about to turn 33. Zach Lavine has failed to improve over the past few years. They own their first round pick this season so they would have an incentive to tank this season if they struggle early. Drummond is my favorite candidate for a realistic, low-cost solution to our center and rebounding conundrums. I can imagine a Seth Curry and a 2nd-round pick swap for Drummond later in the year. Powell, Drummond and Kleber as the center rotation. If Richaun Holmes bounces back, obviously that would be an even better solution. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Wood signs 2yr/5.3mil deal w/LAL| D.Green back to PHI - Ghost of Podkolzin - 09-18-2023 (09-18-2023, 11:15 AM)surfpuckmd Wrote: I like Eason but that would be an overpay. I don't believe he's worth that. My fear with Josh Green is that someone is going to offer him a contract we don't want to match. He walks. HOU is overloaded with SFs: D.Brooks, A.Thompson, Tate, Whitmore (who some say is the steal of the draft), and Eason. Thin at SG: Jalen Green. I bet they'd be willing to part with Eason for equal value at SG. What do you think a fair trade would be for Eason? RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Wood signs 2yr/5.3mil deal w/LAL| D.Green back to PHI - RGP1981 - 09-18-2023 (09-18-2023, 11:32 AM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: My fear with Josh Green is that someone is going to offer him a contract we don't want to match. He walks. If you want Eason, the Mavs might need to take on KPJ? That is, if KPJ is now a negative asset. Eason + KPJ for THJ + Hardy + 2027 1st? I would do that, then waive Markieff and sign Payne... cause it would be a more talented and better balanced team. Kyrie........... Exum, Payne Green......... KPJ, Seth Luka........... G-Will, DJJ Eason......... Kleber, O-Max Holmes....... Lively, Powell RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Wood signs 2yr/5.3mil deal w/LAL| D.Green back to PHI - ItsGoTime - 09-18-2023 (09-18-2023, 08:54 AM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: We have to get a LOT more rebounding from our frontcourt. We were the last in rebounding last season. Of the top 10 teams in wins, only one has a REB% lower than 50%. We were 47.1%. I'm not saying we need to be HOU, but we to be around 50% (average).I don't understand why you're ignoring the rumor that Houston is willing to give draft compensation to get off of KPJ? Also, there is no way we are wanting to keep him with the team after the news is out about him (which is the biggest reason they want him gone). He shouldn't play until his name is cleared up (very unlikely). Really bad optics if we trade for him and play him, which means keeping him away from the team for a year so we can waive him for $1M. I don't know how Hou values Eason, but it can't be too terribly high considering he's coming off the bench for them, and even more buried on the bench with Brooks inclusion most likely. Only way to get more minutes for Eason is to start Jabbari at C and let Sengun come off the bench. That allows their #4 Draft pick of this draft to start as the SF. Thompson is also capable of playing the 2 as is Tate, so there is plenty of flex in their roster to cover for them letting go of KPJ and a positive player to balance the trade. Hou sure-fire starters: FVV (PG/SG), Brooks (SF/PF) and Green (SG) Hou players that should start: Sengun ©, Smith Jr (PF/C), Thompson (SG/SF) Putting it up like that, it's either Sengun or Smith Jr to start, unless they do the unthinkable and bench Thompson (what a waste of a pick if so). If Sengun starts, Smith Jr is playing backup PF behind Brooks. That makes Eason the 3rd PF, unless they fully make Smith Jr the backup C, which I highly doubt. So I repeat, how much can Houston possibly value Eason in this situation? I was a big proponent at the beginning of the offseason to acquiring Eason and Tate from them. This KPJ rumor looks like a pretty perfect way of getting a steal in Eason. He would be a part of a 3 headed monster for the future in our SF/PF spot with GWill, OMax and Eason. Heck, I could see a future situation where GWill is the one coming off the bench with the other 2 starting. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Wood signs 2yr/5.3mil deal w/LAL| D.Green back to PHI - surfpuckmd - 09-18-2023 (09-18-2023, 11:32 AM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: My fear with Josh Green is that someone is going to offer him a contract we don't want to match. He walks. I think THJ and the 2027 1st for KPJ and Tari Eason is probably fair. I think THJ fits well in Houston as a good shooter, decent defender and high-character veteran presence. With further thought, I really think this move would make sense for both teams. Eason would immediately improve our defense and rebounding. A forward rotation of Grant Williams, Eason and DJJ is pretty solid. OMax could supplant DJJ eventually. I don't think the trade is likely though even though it's logical. The Mavericks won't be willing to endure the media criticism that would occur from trading for a violent criminal. Even though you and I understand that we would really just be trading for his contract. The media would still be outraged. It wouldn't be worth the negative attention. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Wood signs 2yr/5.3mil deal w/LAL| D.Green back to PHI - SleepingHero - 09-18-2023 (09-18-2023, 02:49 PM)surfpuckmd Wrote: I think THJ and the 2027 1st for KPJ and Tari Eason is probably fair. I think THJ fits well in Houston as a good shooter, decent defender and high-character veteran presence. I'm sorry. Am I understanding you correctly that your trade is the Mavs send THJ and THEIR 2027 first for Kevin Porter Jr and Tari Eason? The same KPJ that is currently in custody for domestic violence...? Whatever you're smoking you gotta give me some of that. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Wood signs 2yr/5.3mil deal w/LAL| D.Green back to PHI - surfpuckmd - 09-18-2023 (09-18-2023, 09:20 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: I'm sorry. Am I understanding you correctly that your trade is the Mavs send THJ and THEIR 2027 first for Kevin Porter Jr and Tari Eason? Yes, that would be the trade I suggested. An earlier poster suggested that plus Josh Green. Eason is a terrific young player who would fit perfectly. He's already good defensively and projects to be an elite, high-energy defender. He is a great rebounder for a forward. He is limited on offense but can hit open 3-pointers. I think he projects as being a top-50 player in the NBA. I believe he'll be an above-average starter in the NBA which is what we need. An alternative trade I would suggest would be the 2027 1st and Omax for Eason. That would also make us much better immediately. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Wood signs 2yr/5.3mil deal w/LAL| D.Green back to PHI - SleepingHero - 09-18-2023 (09-18-2023, 11:04 PM)surfpuckmd Wrote: Yes, that would be the trade I suggested. An earlier poster suggested that plus Josh Green. I appreciate the reply and clarification. Unfortunately I think your valuation for Eason, and KPJ especially, are a bit out of the solar system... Eason put up middling stats on an objectively horrible team. He was a bright spot for sure, one of their better guys, but I don't think he is vastly better than what we'd be getting from Green or even OMax. To give up either one in addition to our last best trade piece for Eason who wouldn't be anywhere close to being our 3rd best player the day the trade is finalized is roster building suicide and malpractice imo. Further, KPJ's valuation as an asset is probably the worst in the NBA right now. He is literally worth nothing more as an expiring deal that can be sent away before training camp. His time in the NBA has come to a close. HOU has been saying they're willing to attach draft compensation to any team who could take KPJ and give them a vet. A revised trade following your desires (and is much more palatable/realistic) would be: THJ for Eason+KPJ+1st. Why does HOU send additional draft compensation? Because the Mavs are footing the bill on KPJ AND giving up the best player in the trade. Another downfall for such a trade is that the Mavs lose their last middle tier contract for trade matching for someone who's making star level money. THJ+Holmes can bring back a lot money wise. Is Eason and the PR storm KPJ will inevitably bring worth cashing in all of that? RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Wood signs 2yr/5.3mil deal w/LAL| D.Green back to PHI - ItsGoTime - 09-19-2023 (09-18-2023, 11:30 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: A revised trade following your desires (and is much more palatable/realistic) would be: THJ for Eason+KPJ+1st. Why does HOU send additional draft compensation? Because the Mavs are footing the bill on KPJ AND giving up the best player in the trade.I think this goes the other way as far as realistic and fair value. THJ for Eason and KPJ is pretty much fair value. We float KPJ for a year then send him away for $1M. Don't allow him near the team all year (might be easy if he stays in legal problems all year). Have our SF/PF rotation set for the foreseeable future. Use Holmes and Maxi for the Cap trade and finish up with... Luka/Exum Kyrie/Hardy/Curry Green/Eason/OMax GWill/DJJ/Morris Capela/Lively/Powell Roll with that group til the young guys are all ready to go and in a couple years when Kyrie is on his last year, trade him to make room for Green to be the SG next to Luka and Eason or OMax to win the SF starting spot with Lively coming online and starting as well. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Wood signs 2yr/5.3mil deal w/LAL| D.Green back to PHI - IamDougieFresh - 09-19-2023 I figure you gentleman will be properly assessing OMax's value about 10 games in. Only a couple more months of seeing this scrub DJJ ahead of him in depth charts. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Wood signs 2yr/5.3mil deal w/LAL| D.Green back to PHI - surfpuckmd - 09-19-2023 (09-19-2023, 12:30 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: I think this goes the other way as far as realistic and fair value. THJ for Eason and KPJ is pretty much fair value. We float KPJ for a year then send him away for $1M. Don't allow him near the team all year (might be easy if he stays in legal problems all year). Have our SF/PF rotation set for the foreseeable future. Use Holmes and Maxi for the Cap trade and finish up with... The Mavericks won't trade for KPJ due to the negative media attention it would create so this discussion is purely theoretical and simply a way to pass the time until the season starts. However, I think you are greatly undervaluing Tari Eason. He was already excellent defensively last season as a rookie. He was + 1.5 defensively on EPM which is the same as Jaden McDaniels. McDaniels is considered an elite NBA defender. It's also better than Dorian Finney Smith whose defense we really missed after the trade. Eason's defensive RAPTOR was better than Aaron Gordon and Marcus Smart. He was that good as a rookie on a terrible team. He projects to be an all-NBA defensive player which is exactly what we need next to Luka and Kyrie. He is also an excellent rebounder as a forward which is our greatest weakness. He would immediately be the best rebounder on our team as a SF/PF. He would be a great fit here immediately. It's not his fault that he played on a terrible team. He was one of the league's most effective rookies last season. I believe only he and Walker Kessler had positive total RAPTOR scores among rookies. He is limited on offense but could develop into a decent offensive player with experience. He'll likely never be a good 3-point shooter as his form is not very good. However, he hit 34% last season as a rookie. He can improve that with experience and his job on offense will mostly be to hit open 3-pointers and grab offensive rebounds. He can finish in transition and would be another lob threat here. His defense and rebounding though will be elite. What the Mavericks need are a couple of elite role players to go along with Luka and Kyrie. Tari Eason will be that within 2 years. His stats were pretty good as a rookie. 9 ppg and 6 rpg in less than 22mpg. Aaron Gordon averaged 5 points and less than 4 rebounds per game as a rookie. He's now an elite role player and an NBA champion. It won't actually happen but a Tari Eason trade would help the Mavericks immediately. I like THJ and defend him on this message board but Eason would be a better fit here and may already be a better overall player than THJ...and he's only 22 years old. I think he's clearly worth the 2027 1st. KJP can spend the year at home (or in jail) and we could use that contract later in the season on another trade if needed. Otherwise, we release him next summer and stay well away from the 2nd apron next off-season. We could extend Josh Green and might even have the full MLE available next off-season. I like OMax's potential but we don't know what we have there yet. Tari Eason is already a good NBA player. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Wood signs 2yr/5.3mil deal w/LAL| D.Green back to PHI - DallasMaverick - 09-19-2023 It seems like the only possible reason a team might trade for KPJ is to salvage/rehab him. It's like buying a stock at a really low price. Makes no sense to cut him. Here's what we know about guys who do stupid / hurtful / illegal things off-court: 1. Given enough time, and perhaps a heartfelt public apology, people forget. And if the player performs well, they forgive. Remember when Kobe was accused of rape in Colorado? And had to buy his wife the $4m diamond ring? 2. In the moment, teams can respond very emotionally to off-court antics, basically selling at the lowest price. Remember when Rondo quit on the Mavs? They were just done with him, and made zero effort to re-sign him in free agency. He went on to have several productive years with other teams. The Mavs gave up assets to get him, and received no value in return, mostly because of emotion. In contrast, when Miles Bridges screwed up, the Hornets chose to hunker down, wait for the public backlash to blow over, and then re-sign him to a cheap, $7.9m contract. If he performs well, they'll sign him again. And the Charlotte fans will quickly forget his sins. If Ja stays clean off the court, and continues to appear on the highlight reels, in another year or two it will be like he never got in trouble to begin with. But if his play drops off... We fans are a fickle bunch, and our perception is heavily influenced by how we feel. When our teams win, we think everyone involved is amazing. But when they lose, we need to find the responsible party so we can vent. Right now, Houston fans are venting on KPJ. Will their front office respond emotionally? For all my dislike of Daryl Morey, I have to admit that he's done a good job of extracting value from players who's stock is very low. No knee-jerk emotion. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Wood signs 2yr/5.3mil deal w/LAL| D.Green back to PHI - Ghost of Podkolzin - 09-19-2023 (09-18-2023, 11:30 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: I appreciate the reply and clarification. Unfortunately I think your valuation for Eason, and KPJ especially, are a bit out of the solar system... Eason's stats last year are on par with OG's and M.Bridge's. He's projecting to be that type of player. Think of KPJ like Holmes. Sometimes you take on distressed assets to get steals (OMax). If we have to take on KPJ's contract to steal Eason, you do it and waive the POS. RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Wood signs 2yr/5.3mil deal w/LAL| D.Green back to PHI - Ghost of Podkolzin - 09-19-2023 (09-19-2023, 09:40 AM)DallasMaverick Wrote: It seems like the only possible reason a team might trade for KPJ is to salvage/rehab him. It's like buying a stock at a really low price. Makes no sense to cut him. IMO you only trade for KPJ to steal Eason. Domestic abuse is a tricky subject. You have situations like Kidd's where it doesn't repeat itself. You have situations like Holmes' where it was bullshit. I would say 99% of the time you have both people crazy, high, and/or drunk. IMO generally there are no pure victims, no pure attackers. Strangling a woman, however, is a whole other beast. In no way, shape, or form is there a situation where that's remotely acceptable. If this is true, I hope KPJ never bounces another ball in the NBA. |