Mavs 113, Nuggets 117

[Jason Terry]

I thought JJ's quote in the post-game was potentially telling:

“I think we were able to hold each other accountable and use that as a spark instead of fighting among each other.”


There might be nothing here OR he might have inadvertently revealed that the Mavs have had some in-fighting in the locker room this season. Frankly that wouldn't surprise me one bit because I agree that something in the chemistry looks askew.

I’ve been thinking this same thing over the last 1.5 weeks. And i think it’s Luka vs everyone else........ certain comments make more sense. It was the comments he made to Carlisle at the end of that Bucks game that made me first think so.

All the players and even the coaching staff i believe walk on egg shells at times. It’s causing the players to press when they get on the court. Hence the chemistry and shot making issues. Not Rick or anyone else can control him. When everyones saying you’re the best player in the world, then you get a free pass to say and do whatever you want. 

Obviously this is speculation and whatever it is hasn’t been made public, but this would make the most sense.........I mean KP looks straight up scared and nervous when he’s interviewed post game. Rick looked like he was crying after one of the games. 

We can’t forget that this is a kid. How rational were we at 21?........this is a GOOD thing though. Much better to have a star like this than one that doesn’t have that inner drive/fight/competitiveness

[burekemde]

I’ve been thinking this same thing over the last 1.5 weeks. And i think it’s Luka vs everyone else........ certain comments make more sense. It was the comments he made to Carlisle at the end of that Bucks game that made me first think so.

All the players and even the coaching staff i believe walk on egg shells at times. It’s causing the players to press when they get on the court. Hence the chemistry and shot making issues. Not Rick or anyone else can control him. When everyones saying you’re the best player in the world, then you get a free pass to say and do whatever you want. 

Obviously this is speculation and whatever it is hasn’t been made public, but this would make the most sense.........I mean KP looks straight up scared and nervous when he’s interviewed post game. Rick looked like he was crying after one of the games. 

We can’t forget that this is a kid. How rational were we at 21?........this is a GOOD thing though. Much better to have a star like this than one that doesn’t have that inner drive/fight/competitiveness

MJ scared everyone and won many titles. We all need to be challenged, and improve each other. We will not improve if not challenged. As long as he always keeps the line who is coach and respect to coach and teammates. Never assume the role of the coach.

Not sure that what you propose this is going on. There is no evidence at all for that in the statements. But if, so its not necessary negative.

One thing is for sure is Luka is a born winner. And he wants to win many titles, and most likely he will. It takes that extra competitiveness. Along the way, he will scare some as well. To win, it really takes a lot of adjustment, and its many times not easy.

The scary thing is that Luka expects to win every season. He destroys his jersey, or punches something on the sideline after the loss. The scary thing is that his expectations are probably much higher than anyone else on this Mavs team, including the coach. Its most likely that desire to win, that makes him better, but its also the thing that can scare others, that done have that huge drive.

[Dahlsim]

MAVERICKS LET ONE SLIP AWAY
LATE-GAME STRUGGLES SURFACE

 and BOBI made a three-minute cameo. 

Boban Marjanovic 31 Pts 17 Reb Full Highlights | Nuggets vs Mavericks | March 11, 2020

I expected to see more of Boban in this game

[mavsluvr]

For sure!

Serious question: With as much vague talk we've gotten from Carlisle and others about "team basketball," "moving the ball" and "unselfish play," I'm wondering if some of it is directed at Doncic. I mean, it COULD be all about the others not stopping the ball, and there have been plenty of examples of several people doing so, but I wonder if a big part of the problem has simply been that THIS group isn't quite as happy to just watch Luka do his thing as last year's group was.

Just a random thought - I'm definitely not trying to make a claim.

I thought Johnson's remark was interesting, too. 

I think when things aren't going well in any group situation, there is a tendency for there to be a certain degree of blaming going on. Phil Jackson said in one of his books that in planning for playoff series, he always watched for the point that the members of the opposing team were pointing fingers at each other, because that was the point that he knew they were mentally beaten. 

As for Luka, other guys might be resentful of him. Or, it honestly wouldn't totally surprise me if Luka were one of the finger-pointers, and that Rick and Johnson, who considers himself a team leader, were trying to tamp that down. Luka is always very circumspect in his public comments about his teammates, but he seems visibly frustrated with them at times on the court, and who could blame him for feeling like he is having to drag the whole team in some of these games.

We may never know for sure, but it's something to keep an eye on.

[burekemde]

What a sad result to get another loss.... It was hard to watch, especially the start but also the finish. 

Thanks a lot ML for the game breakdown as always, great stuff.

Some observations I noted. 

- I've said it for weeks now. Luka brings WCS in so many great positions to score, so close to basket as he could possibly be. WCS should be averaging 6 pts more per game at least. His finishing close to basket is worse than anything I have seen before. Luckily for WCS, he does some other things correct, and he rim rolls well enough. Still an upgrade over Powell. 

- When we start well games we almost always win. When we start bad and get behind, we almost always lose. Its normal sports psychology, and not only Mavs related. We start playing horrendous defense. After DFS/Maxi/Jrich our 3 starters before they got Covid, went out, we are going from the best to worst defense. From dominating at the point of attack and defending against 3s, to absolute worst. This is no coincidence. Houston couldnt miss a 3, Denver couldnt miss a 3. Probably I could make some 3s as well on this starting Mavs team. We cant defend with this starting lineup, and we wont win much like this. Someone said it here on forum, I forgot who, but that Luka is probably our best defender right now in that starting lineup'. Thats so true, and scary. We will be one of the best teams again with them back, as we will get the defensive game back again. But it might take time... 

- KP has lost a step. He doesnt protect the rim nearly as well as before. Its not that KP we know from before, that blocks everything and everyone coming close to our basket. He is relatively easy to score on right now, even when he is a decent defensive position, and even with smaller opponents can actually go over the top over him and make the score. Hope he gets that step back again. Its a tiny step, but makes all the defensive difference in the world. And to our defense. 

- THJ was again bad starting the game, defensively, and offensively. He exploded in the 3rd quarter which was so great to see. Its exactly what 6th man of the team does best. Not starter to set the tone, but gets in many minutes and scores when needed. He, as several other starting Mavs, simply didnt set that necessary tone to start the game and we got behind. He is not the only one to blame. 

- JJ is such a great addition. Experienced smart veteran. He will be so great for our depth. 

- I expected the rookies to play much less this game, and Im happy that happened. Otherwise, would have been a complete blow out, even more than the Houston game. At least we got a tight game out of this by keeping the rookies away. In this regard, we can be happy about this. With our 3 main plays out, we managed to get a chance to even win this game against a great opponent. I dont see much playing time for the rookies going on from here. It will be must win games every game essentially. No time more to test them as I think they failed the test. Not giving up on them at all, each of then has the potential, but we are also in win now mode. 

- Ill place my money on Mavs to win it all this season. The odds do not look great for this at the moment. You can call me crazy - I most likely am. When our defensive players are back, we will be nearly unstoppable IMO, we will have i) one of best defense in the NBA, ii) two offensive two-way stars, iii) a legit MVP candidate, iv) the best 6th man in the NBA, v) solid depth, vi) peak at the right time just before playoffs when the entire team is ready and other teams might start to be on trajectory down, and finally, vii) playoff experience from last season building on that momentum. Not many other teams have all of that. It's a recipe for a team that will go very far. It will take quiet some time for the team to take shape, and there will be pains. But once we are full strength, and we see those lineups from pre-Covid, it will be a different story.

[burekemde]

I’ve been thinking this same thing over the last 1.5 weeks. And i think it’s Luka vs everyone else........ certain comments make more sense. It was the comments he made to Carlisle at the end of that Bucks game that made me first think so.

All the players and even the coaching staff i believe walk on egg shells at times. It’s causing the players to press when they get on the court. Hence the chemistry and shot making issues. Not Rick or anyone else can control him. When everyones saying you’re the best player in the world, then you get a free pass to say and do whatever you want. 

Obviously this is speculation and whatever it is hasn’t been made public, but this would make the most sense.........I mean KP looks straight up scared and nervous when he’s interviewed post game. Rick looked like he was crying after one of the games. 

We can’t forget that this is a kid. How rational were we at 21?........this is a GOOD thing though. Much better to have a star like this than one that doesn’t have that inner drive/fight/competitiveness

Your theory really fascinated me. Then I checked the postgame interviews. All the story points to the major and most important issue, that causes everything not working even defense, is that the ball didnt flow in 1st quarter. Even on questions regarding defense and why the slow start. RC answer is ball movement in 1st quarter. This is also the issue that was discussed at half time it seems. This was the root for all the issues in the locker room. RC mentioned that the team chemistry was not working in the start of this game and individual stats did not matter.

Simply, I had to figure out who was stalling the ball movement. Re-watched carefully the entire 1st quarter. Because this had the answer for the topic above, and who was to blame for this.

Luka: Had almost a perfect 1st quarter. Passing the ball, setting up teammates, not rushing through his reads. He had two quick shots only entire quarter, and on one of them he was quiet open. So I would say only one time in this quarter that he made a mistake. Thats it, otherwise played to perfection, and in fact one of his best quarters ever, he had ton of assists and great reads and would have had more if WCS could capitalise. Hence, I can say based on this, I am not all all sold on the theory that it is Luka that is the one being discussed by RC in half time. JJ looked extremely happy with Luka at end of 1st quarter at game breaks. 


THJ: Made one rushed 3 point attempt early at the shot clock.

KP: Made 5 or 6 rushed shots. Need to go back and recount exact number. Way early in the shot clock. On none of them being open. Most of them did not go in. Even Harp mentioned that KP was rushing through his shots. It is the usual KP receiving the ball from Luka, and instead of making the ball flow to the next guy, he makes the immediate shot.

I am now 100% convinced that the discussion in the half time was about KP.

And we need to be scared about this definitely. Also about his step that he has lost post injury, he is not the same defender for sure. But, I do hope and think, this will return. The ball movement, I think/hope they have sorted this out. Need to watch 3rd/4th quarter and see if there is a pattern if KP stopped doing these rushed attempts early in shot clock, with a defender on him well positioned.

Also, bear in mind, that upon KP's return we started play bad. Yes we lost the 3 main pieces of our team, 3 starters that play D, but KP also came back, and the bad results after his return also needs to be taken into account, and his effort and level of play, and the stalling of ball movement, probably had the coach and teammates reacting in this game at half time.

[Kammrath]

I am now 100% convinced that the discussion in the half time was about KP.

I think this makes the most sense. I think Luka's teammates LOVE him. We know for a fact he gets along REALLY well with Boban, Brunson, and JRich. And honestly the only teammate I am not sure he gets along with would be KP. 

KP has always seemed an outlier to the team's chemistry and fun loving spirit. 

We know that KP was shot hunting the first two games back in particular and even acknowledged that. It wouldn't surprise me if the rest of the team is not liking the shots he is taking. The team's offensive rating when KP is on-court is the worst of the whole team except for Green, Iwundu, and DP. 

I think the Mavs might have a KP problem, not only on the court, but off the court. Let's hope it gets figured out quick.

[mavsluvr]

Simply, I had to figure out who was stalling the ball movement. Re-watched carefully the entire 1st quarter. Because this had the answer for the topic above, and who was to blame for this.

Thanks for investigating this issue and sharing, burekemde. 


I would believe that the "guilty party" was KP, who seems to be forcing things for some reason. Probably not the only one, as several guys were not playing well, and Carlisle doesn't normally like to single people out. 

Interesting observations!

[burekemde]

Or, it honestly wouldn't totally surprise me if Luka were one of the finger-pointers, and that Rick and Johnson, who considers himself a team leader, were trying to tamp that down.

Very interesting theory as well ML. I think this fits more. KP was the one stalling the ball movement, breaking the flow. He took 5 or 6 shots contested by a defender, very early in the shot clock, almost immediately after he got the ball.

Someone blamed him for this. And rightfully so.

Still dont think it was Luka. Luka was trying to call plays for KP last games, to get him going, post him up.

I believe it was JJ that criticised KP for taking those quick shots and stalling movement. He is the only one bad ass enough being able to say something like that, takes experience Luka doesnt have at all at this point. KP fought back. RC talked and totally agreed with JJ. They talked again all of them and the team, and stopped fighting, instead held each other accountable.

Just throwing my own theory out there.

[KillerLeft]

KP: Made 5 or 6 rushed shots. Need to go back and recount exact number. Way early in the shot clock. On none of them being open. Most of them did not go in. Even Harp mentioned that KP was rushing through his shots. It is the usual KP receiving the ball from Luka, and instead of making the ball flow to the next guy, he makes the immediate shot.

I am now 100% convinced that the discussion in the half time was about KP. 

Good stuff. It makes sense.

---

The team's offensive rating when KP is on-court is the worst of the whole team except for Green, Iwundu, and DP. 

Yikes. 

Hope it's just a matter of shaking the rust off, because benching or trading him really isn't an option.

[burekemde]

Hope it's just a matter of shaking the rust off, because benching or trading him really isn't an option.

Great point. If true, this needs to be sorted out. Glad that after this discussion, the team was on fire in the 2nd half. It could seem that this has been an issue for the team for a while, that nobody dared to talked about, and somebody on the team had the cojones to bring it up. Its great that the team responded so well.

[Kammrath]

Hope it's just a matter of shaking the rust off, because benching or trading him really isn't an option.

I think if they trade KP it would be this off season, no way sooner than that unless someone specifically comes knocking and asking.

[burekemde]

We know that KP was shot hunting the first two games back in particular and even acknowledged that. It wouldn't surprise me if the rest of the team is not liking the shots he is taking. The team's offensive rating when KP is on-court is the worst of the whole team except for Green, Iwundu, and DP. 

Great point, this totally fits that the level of the team has actually gone down upon KP's return. Yes we miss the defensive guys and that has had huge impact, but one would hope/expect some of that was reversed by KP.

It seems it was not reversed, but rather reinforced. On defense also, he is not the same player as last season.

Hoping that he will get back in shape, and integrate better in the team as the season goes along.

[KillerLeft]

I think if they trade KP it would be this off season, no way sooner than that unless someone specifically comes knocking and asking.

I'm really curious, and don't know the answer:

Since Dallas acquired Porzingis, has his trade value increased or decreased? 

On one hand, he has overcome that first really serious ACL injury and has played well in spurts since then. AND, the ambiguity of his contractual situation is gone, as he's locked up for another two years after this one. 

On the other, he has endured another injury that required surgery, and while it was nowhere near as serious, the effect it had on his rep can't have been great. Plus, he honestly hasn't CONSISTENTLY played super well here yet, if we're being honest. The injury rep, when combined with the inconsistent on-court impact he has had when healthy, might make the contract pretty scary for some teams. 

I mean, I could see them trading him this summer, too, but I think the potential haul might be worse than what Dallas sent out to acquire him, which wasn't all that spectacular.

[Kammrath]

worse than what Dallas sent out to acquire him

The Mavs got Burke, THJ, and KP and gave up a bust (DSJ), two guys they would have lost anyway (DAJ & Wes), and 2 firsts. The two firsts are the real loss but they acquired a valuable rotation guy (THJ) and an inconsistent but valuable bench spark (Burke).

Point being, I don't think it takes much to still break even in that trade. BUT the Mavs NEED a 2nd banana (not firsts) badly. 

So my question to you: 

Who would you target as a replacement to KP in your ideal world and then who do you think might be a realistic target?

[burekemde]

The Mavs got Burke, THJ, and KP and gave up a bust (DSJ), two guys they would have lost anyway (DAJ & Wes), and 2 firsts. The two firsts are the real loss but they acquired a valuable rotation guy (THJ) and an inconsistent but valuable bench spark (Burke).

Point being, I don't think it takes much to still break even in that trade. BUT the Mavs NEED a 2nd banana (not firsts) badly. 

So my question to you: 

Who would you target as a replacement to KP in your ideal world and then who do you think might be a realistic target?

Who did Knicks acquire for those two firsts? Or are those picks in the future? I agree, this could still break even depending who they pick. So far Mavs won the trade, but it all depends on those picks..

[Kammrath]

Who did Knicks acquire for those two firsts? Or are those picks in the future?

Unprotected pick this year (yikes) and top 10 protected in 2023. So we won't know the first guy till this summer.

[mavsluvr]

Very interesting theory as well ML. I think this fits more. KP was the one stalling the ball movement, breaking the flow. He took 5 or 6 shots contested by a defender, very early in the shot clock, almost immediately after he got the ball.

Someone blamed him for this. And rightfully so.

Still dont think it was Luka. Luka was trying to call plays for KP last games, to get him going, post him up.

I believe it was JJ that criticised KP for taking those quick shots and stalling movement. He is the only one bad ass enough being able to say something like that, takes experience Luka doesnt have at all at this point. KP fought back. RC talked and totally agreed with JJ. They talked again all of them and the team, and stopped fighting, instead held each other accountable.

Just throwing my own theory out there.

You may be right. Johnson isn't exactly blameless about forcing things, as he has a penchant for occasionally trying a flashy pass that usually results in a turnover, but that isn't a ball-stopping issue, and as Rick said, his heart was in the right place. 

Someone said that several people spoke, so maybe this was a chance for the guys to get whatever is bothering them off their chests. Hope they can work it out.

[KillerLeft]

Who would you target as a replacement to KP in your ideal world and then who do you think might be a realistic target?

Not sure if this is realistic in terms of trade fit, but everyday that passes has me more enamored with the idea of prying Collins away from ATL. 

I think KP's value is in line with that (maybe even a little better) but I don't think ATL will want KP on their team. Just doesn't seem like a fit for them. 

The first team who comes to mind that might really value him is Boston, but a lot can change between now and the summer. If we were serious about finding a trade partner to move KP, I'd have to spend some time considering who needs a stretch big and would be inclined to value one with a star name and deeper scoring potential.

At the end of the day, I kind of doubt there's a team out there who'd value him more than Dallas does.

[Kammrath]

prying Collins away from ATL

Would you target a "big" as the return for KP or more of a "wing"?