Stein: "Don't Worry About Mavs Moves"

[Jym]

I think the only RFA that is worth the 2027 unprotected is PJ Washington, cause he has enough upside and the right age to even double that return with the right progression.

I was screaming like a crazy person to jump on the JA-DAJ-Houston catastrophe as it transpired. In the end It cost the Cavs the 24th pick last year to get Jarrett Allen. Cost us the 25th pick to get Christian Wood. Plus eating the contract of Taurean Prince, who turned out to be better than Josh Richardson anyway.

PJ Washington is somebody that could improve his value significantly. Plus you can make a side deal with either Hayward or Oubre/Myhkailiuk. With Hayward you basically get the same benefit, I said you would have gotten with Westbrook. Don´t just look at his current contract, but also his next one. Yes $31.5M for Hayward is bad. How does 36/3 for the 6th man of the year sound?

THJ + McGee + 2027 unprotected possibly gets you Washington + Oubre + Mykhailiuk

The Hayward one could be difficult to match the salaries. Probably need to involve all of THJ + Bullock + McGee + Wood and then you might get there, but then the cap legality might be tricky. If you throw in Holmes instead of Wood, you suddenly are a center short.

But all in all I think either outcome:

Doncic/Hardy/Exum
Irving/Curry/ Mykhailliuk
Green/Oubre/Bullock
Washington/Kleber/Omax
Holmes/Powell/Lively

Doncic/Hardy/Exum
Irving/Curry/
Green/Hayward/
Washington/Kleber/Omax
Bamba /Powell/Lively

are some of the best we can hope for.

I´m not giving up that 2027 for Williams, Reed, Thybulle or Dosunmu. That is nuts. Chance I´d be proven wrong by those, too. I just don´t see it.

Giving up an unprotected pick for either seems insane to me

[ItsGoTime]

Yes, we can’t get what we want cause we won’t give up what it takes (because what we have is very bad) so kick the can down the road for the 10th year in a row. I’m certain next year is the year.

[KillerLeft]

Yes, we can’t get what we want cause we won’t give up what it takes (because what we have is very bad) so kick the can down the road for the 10th year in a row. I’m certain next year is the year.

But, what people are suggesting is the opposite. Stop giving up ANY attractive assets in half-measure, “best we can do” deals. Instead, play Green, Hardy, Omax and Lively. Start replenishing the asset cabinet. If you can win that way, super. If not, they were never going to, anyway, because like you said they don’t have the means to get the players they really need.

[MarkAguirreWrathofGod]

I think Jason Terry, F.Gump, KL summed it up well. Toss a MLE at our guy (G.Williams?). If we strike out, take on a salary dump stop gap (like Marcus Morris) Do not include 2027 for anything less than a star/difference maker/missing piece type. Hardy goes nowhere; He is about to have the leagues best contract after he takes the next step this season. Sign Green to an extension (4yr-56m seems about right) See what you’ve got in Omax and Lively: they should get 10-20 minutes per game each.

This organization is finally positioned to be a player again in the next year. Access to 3 1st round picks, tradeable contracts, young talent. No panic moves.

[ItsGoTime]

But, what people are suggesting is the opposite. Stop giving up ANY attractive assets in half-measure, “best we can do” deals. Instead, play Green, Hardy, Omax and Lively. Start replenishing the asset cabinet. If you can win that way, super. If not, they were never going to, anyway, because like you said they don’t have the means to get the players they really need.

A lot of the problem is our FO is so tight lipped that we have no idea what the offers are. If all they are offering is THJ, Holmes and McGee with no pick, no Hardy, no Green, nothing else, it’s no wonder nothing is happening. I know you like THJ, but the NBA has spoken, his contract is not in any way desirable.

It’s plan powder, but with picks. I know there are differences between the two ideas, but in the end when we have a player of Kyrie’s caliber at his age and on his contract I think it’s just as irresponsible to ignore that.

Teams use picks to dump money all the time. It has value for a reason. Getting off of all our 2 year bad contracts also has long term planning value as well. I know that is not lost on any of you guys. I just can’t understand why you can’t put stock in that vision as well.

[The Jom]

A lot of the problem is our FO is so tight lipped that we have no idea what the offers are. . . .

This is in no way a problem.

[KillerLeft]

A lot of the problem is our FO is so tight lipped that we have no idea what the offers are. If all they are offering is THJ, Holmes and McGee with no pick, no Hardy, no Green, nothing else, it’s no wonder nothing is happening. I know you like THJ, but the NBA has spoken, his contract is not in any way desirable.

It’s plan powder, but with picks. I know there are differences between the two ideas, but in the end when we have a player of Kyrie’s caliber at his age and on his contract I think it’s just as irresponsible to ignore that.

Teams use picks to dump money all the time. It has value for a reason. Getting off of all our 2 year bad contracts also has long term planning value as well. I know that is not lost on any of you guys. I just can’t understand why you can’t put stock in that vision as well.

None of this changes what YOU said: that their assets aren’t good enough to afford them the players they really need. 

When faced with that situation, you get younger. Seems like that’s part of the Mavs’ thinking here. I’m fine with it, because they’ve been a race car speeding towards a red light ever since the Porzingis experiment failed. You just can’t miss on those blockbuster, multi-pick moves, imo, especially not if you’re going to follow that up by letting your 2nd best player, a star, walk for nothing. At some point, the bill comes due. 

Instead of running out the ground ball out, why not switch gears and start building towards the next Luka decision point. I think they might have a chance of pulling themselves to a good place by then, but I have no faith whatsoever that trading that UNPROTECTED ‘27 now will net something that will make them a contender. None.  They can’t even afford Jarred freaking Allen, ffs.

It’s over. This is a tactical retreat, imo, but a fairly well executed one, so far. Should they have made the Kyrie trade? No, I think it was dummmmmbbbb and said so at the time. You could make the argument that they are chasing the sunk cost a little too much even now by signing him, imho. But, I’m willing to roll with it because the contract isn’t terrible.  

You seem to be hung up on the logic being not trading ‘27 now because they’re itching to make another multi-pick swing later, and maybe that will be the play, but MAYBE NOT! Look how well they’ve been drafting, lately? Who’s to say they won’t continue to USE the picks, at least for a while, until they ARE one player away from contention and DO have the assets (including young players) to snag him? Hell, just look what they were able to do with ONE lowish lottery pick a few weeks ago! Why not try to get more swings at moves like THAT?

[ItsGoTime]

None of this changes what YOU said: that their assets aren’t good enough to afford them the players they really need. 

When faced with that situation, you get younger. Seems like that’s part of the Mavs’ thinking here. I’m fine with it, because they’ve been a race car speeding towards a red light ever since the Porzingis experiment failed. You just can’t miss on those blockbuster, multi-pick moves, imo, especially not if you’re going to follow that up by letting your 2nd best player, a star, walk for nothing. At some point, the bill comes due. 

Instead of running out the ground ball out, why not switch gears and start building towards the next Luka decision point. I think they might have a chance of pulling themselves to a good place by then, but I have no faith whatsoever that trading that UNPROTECTED ‘27 now will net something that will make them a contender. None.  They can’t even afford Jarred freaking Allen, ffs.

It’s over. This is a tactical retreat, imo, but a fairly well executed one, so far. Should they have made the Kyrie trade? No, I think it was dummmmmbbbb and said so at the time. You could make the argument that they are chasing the sunk cost a little too much even now by signing him, imho. But, I’m willing to roll with it because the contract isn’t terrible.  

You seem to be hung up on the logic being not trading ‘27 now because they’re itching to make another multi-pick swing later, and maybe that will be the play, but MAYBE NOT! Look how well they’ve been drafting, lately? Who’s to say they won’t continue to USE the picks, at least for a while, until they ARE one player away from contention and DO have the assets (including young players) to snag him? Hell, just look what they were able to do with ONE lowish lottery pick a few weeks ago! Why not try to get more swings at moves like THAT?

I was right there with you on the Kyrie trade, BUT, THEY did it AND they’re sticking to it. THAT decision alone goes against all that you are saying. Using the 27 pick now does not interfere with any of your stated plans at this moment. We can still draft and develop players up until then in the same way up until 27. At that point if we’ve done a good job, teams will be lining up to give us picks for that work and losing the 27 will be an afterthought. 

In the meantime, we’ve been giving Luka AND Kyrie the best team we can to get them the highest seed and a punchers chance they need in the playoffs. Taking for example the newest CHA trade. THJ, Bullock, Holmes, McGee and 27 for Hayward and PJ. That gives us a rotation of:

Luka/Kyrie/Hayward/PJ/Powell
Seth/Hardy/Green/Maxi/Lively

That is a team full of everything we need to succeed (defense, shooting, pnr, ball handling, driving and distribution). Especially in a contract year for Hayward. Heck, I can see a world where Green beats out Hayward and the bench is bolstered with Hayward. We also could still have the full MLE to give another contract out or the Dan deal of splitting it with Curry and Thybulle (although I’m not sure why POR doesn’t match). 

After next season we would have roughly $130Mish in committed salary depending on what is done to fill roster spots after the trade with 2 available picks. All while freshly coming off another exciting WCF run (and finally closing the chapter on the KP trade). OMax has now proven to need Maxi’s minutes and we use him to upgrade for the following year.

Edit: “their assets aren’t good enough to afford them the players they really need.”
This is exactly why we’re having this conversation about using the 27 pick.

[omahen]

I was right there with you on the Kyrie trade, BUT, THEY did it AND they’re sticking to it. THAT decision alone goes against all that you are saying. Using the 27 pick now does not interfere with any of your stated plans at this moment. We can still draft and develop players up until then in the same way up until 27. At that point if we’ve done a good job, teams will be lining up to give us picks for that work and losing the 27 will be an afterthought. 

In the meantime, we’ve been giving Luka AND Kyrie the best team we can to get them the highest seed and a punchers chance they need in the playoffs. Taking for example the newest CHA trade. THJ, Bullock, Holmes, McGee and 27 for Hayward and PJ. That gives us a rotation of:

Luka/Kyrie/Hayward/PJ/Powell
Seth/Hardy/Green/Maxi/Lively

That is a team full of everything we need to succeed (defense, shooting, pnr, ball handling, driving and distribution). Especially in a contract year for Hayward. Heck, I can see a world where Green beats out Hayward and the bench is bolstered with Hayward. We also could still have the full MLE to give another contract out or the Dan deal of splitting it with Curry and Thybulle (although I’m not sure why POR doesn’t match). 

After next season we would have roughly $130Mish in committed salary depending on what is done to fill roster spots after the trade with 2 available picks. All while freshly coming off another exciting WCF run (and finally closing the chapter on the KP trade). OMax has now proven to need Maxi’s minutes and we use him to upgrade for the following year.

Edit: “their assets aren’t good enough to afford them the players they really need.”
This is exactly why we’re having this conversation about using the 27 pick.

While I am not really a favorite of the exact trade proposal, I totally agree with your general concept. Mavs don't need a star that is worth 3 picks. That is plan powder. They need three correct role players next to them. Good role players cost even less than unprotected FRP. No point in waiting, if the correct player is available. They tend to be more often available, compared to players that cost 3 FRP.

[KillerLeft]

IGT, I shouldn’t have gotten into this conversation. I don’t see the presence of Kyrie Irving in the roster as a reason to spend an UNPROTECTED ‘27 on Al Horford and Grant Williams. I like both of the players, but that’s not fair value for an unprotected first.

I would trade the pick in a deal I felt was worth it.

[KillerLeft]

While I am not really a favorite of the exact trade proposal, I totally agree with your general concept. Mavs don't need a star that is worth 3 picks. That is plan powder. They need three correct role players next to them. Good role players cost even less than unprotected FRP. No point in waiting, if the correct player is available. They tend to be more often available, compared to players that cost 3 FRP.

That was my whole point, though. 

Reading IGT’s ideas, I feel as though he’s trying to find ways to dump that pick just to AVOID making a big multi-pick swing like that. That’s like trying to spend all of your money on beer before your spouse can blow it on lottery tickets. 

There are a ton of ways to use picks. The Mavs JUST proved capable of using one more creatively than we previously thought they could. Maybe, rather than argue about what STYLE of approach for these picks is best, we should just hope that they make all of them count??? Novel, I know. 

Also, I’m sorry, but when you’re asset poor, like the Mavericks, you have to spend those assets in “just the right” deals. That’s just the way it is.

[ItsGoTime]

IGT, I shouldn’t have gotten into this conversation. I don’t see the presence of Kyrie Irving in the roster as a reason to spend an UNPROTECTED ‘27 on Al Horford and Grant Williams. I like both of the players, but that’s not fair value for an unprotected first.

I would trade the pick in a deal I felt was worth it.

And Masai would trade OG and Siakam in a deal he thinks is worth it. Both deals (Cha and Bos) have plenty of merit (I won’t retype it), and are in no way spending the pick just to prove a point. I guess I see a way out of the mess we’re in by using it, you don’t.

[MFFL]

That’s just the way it is.

This is the way.