Tim Hardaway Jr.

[vfromlmf]

I mentioned this in the game thread a few days ago but I'm not surprised THJ got the start. In fact, I expected it and I think it's the right move. 

Bullock earned a long leash based on the WCF run and I expect Kidd stayed loyal to him out of respect. It was a locker room decision. I also bet that Kidd and the rest of the staff have been communicating with Reggie and the "day off," and subsequent move to the bench was no surprise to anyone. Reggie had to play better, but it wasn't working, so next man up.

I also bet THJ's move to the starting lineup was expected. In Kidd's hierarchical locker room, THJ earned the next opportunity to start. He was the starter before he got hurt last year, and he's the veteran. He was also playing terribly off the bench, so something needed to change with him too. 

Like it or not, this team really needs THJ to play well. You certainly can't move him out of the rotation or trade him. So if he's going to play, moving him to the starting lineup might be the best way to get him going. My best guess is this will be a brief audition, and if things don't improve, it will be Green's turn.

[KillerLeft]

Also, there had to be some type of spending mandate too.

I think this is normal. I think every GM in the game, no matter how powerful, must answer to his team governor in terms of financial resources, and I'm sure each and every one of them have had times when they wanted to make a move that stretched the limits of those resources and were denied. That's all fine, to me. 

But, someone else asked (maybe it was you) if Harrison could fire Kidd, or if he could make major roster changes, etc...I submit that to me, it feels like no, absolutely Harrison is not empowered to do those things. I think it's pretty obvious through 20 years of context that Cuban is at least involved in every decision like that. Some people might think that's normal or ok, but I don't. 

Imagine a scenario in which Harrison wanted to fire Kidd (he probably doesn't, this is just a hypothetical). He'd have to go to Cuban and ask about this course of action. When Cuban declined, there would then be a stressful situation in Harrison's mind regarding whether or not Kidd would be informed of this maneuvering. If Kidd finds out, everyone is uncomfortable and there's no more trust (we know this has happened in the past around here). If Cuban is smart enough (at least) to keep it to himself, great, but now the GM knows he might have had other conversations with other voices about him, and that's weird. Easy to see how this dynamic would dissuade multiple people from even being truthful with Cuban about what they think in the first place. 

Someone needs to be in charge, at the end of the day. The reason that person should be the GM and not the Owner is simple: a GM can be held accountable for the results born of his process and fired. An owner cannot. That might seem like a minor distinction, but when one plays out the permutations of how this can all shake out, logically, I think it's easy to reach the conclusion that it's nearly impossible to succeed with an owner who meddles, even if they're almost as smart as they think. 

A GM who can't be fired (so basically an owner trying to play GM) is probably the most common cause of decade-plus losing stretches for franchises in any sport.

[dynamicalVoid]

I mentioned this in the game thread a few days ago but I'm not surprised THJ got the start. In fact, I expected it and I think it's the right move. 

Bullock earned a long leash based on the WCF run and I expect Kidd stayed loyal to him out of respect. It was a locker room decision. I also bet that Kidd and the rest of the staff have been communicating with Reggie and the "day off," and subsequent move to the bench was no surprise to anyone. Reggie had to play better, but it wasn't working, so next man up.

I also bet THJ's move to the starting lineup was expected. In Kidd's hierarchical locker room, THJ earned the next opportunity to start. He was the starter before he got hurt last year, and he's the veteran. He was also playing terribly off the bench, so something needed to change with him too. 

Like it or not, this team really needs THJ to play well. You certainly can't move him out of the rotation or trade him. So if he's going to play, moving him to the starting lineup might be the best way to get him going. My best guess is this will be a brief audition, and if things don't improve, it will be Green's turn.

Your post is thoughtful about the situation...but I think it is overthinking or trying to justify playing a vet that isnt good and if Kidd is thinking this way its bad management/coaching.

Maybe the argument can be made about money and THJ's contract so that is why he starts over Green.

But...in reality...Green is an F-35 and THJ is an outdated F-16.  In no way should THJ start over him.  Only way you can make it sound kind of ok is by over-rationalizing it or bringing up some unimportant situation like "hierarchial locker room".   That stuff shouldnt matter at all.  It should be about who the better player is.  Not latching on to some non-basketball skill related issue to justify it.  If you are correct in Kidd's thinking...its bad management/coaching.  

An excuse of THJ playing with Luka so Luka gets THJ clear looks to get THJ going again doesnt fly with me either.

[KillerLeft]

I mentioned this in the game thread a few days ago but I'm not surprised THJ got the start. In fact, I expected it and I think it's the right move. 

Bullock earned a long leash based on the WCF run and I expect Kidd stayed loyal to him out of respect. It was a locker room decision. I also bet that Kidd and the rest of the staff have been communicating with Reggie and the "day off," and subsequent move to the bench was no surprise to anyone. Reggie had to play better, but it wasn't working, so next man up.

I also bet THJ's move to the starting lineup was expected. In Kidd's hierarchical locker room, THJ earned the next opportunity to start. He was the starter before he got hurt last year, and he's the veteran. He was also playing terribly off the bench, so something needed to change with him too. 

Like it or not, this team really needs THJ to play well. You certainly can't move him out of the rotation or trade him. So if he's going to play, moving him to the starting lineup might be the best way to get him going. My best guess is this will be a brief audition, and if things don't improve, it will be Green's turn.

I agree with all of this. 

Not sure where the Walker news puts us on this spectrum, however, because my feeling is that about a week after he gets here he's going to want 15-20 minutes per (with some old man rest nights, obvs). 

When you look at the current rotation (the parts of it that are consistent, at least) his minutes can really only come from two places. I mean, sure, Dinwiddie and Luka's minutes can both be shaved a little, and probably should be, but the majority of Walker's role will have to be carved out from either A) THJ or B) by cutting the 4th big completely out of the rotation and playing much smaller. 

I can make an argument for either route. Will be interesting.

[Smitty]

I agree with all of this. 

Not sure where the Walker news puts us on this spectrum, however, because my feeling is that about a week after he gets here he's going to want 15-20 minutes per (with some old man rest nights, obvs). 

When you look at the current rotation (the parts of it that are consistent, at least) his minutes can really only come from two places. I mean, sure, Dinwiddie and Luka's minutes can both be shaved a little, and probably should be, but the majority of Walker's role will have to be carved out from either A) THJ or B) by cutting the 4th big completely out of the rotation and playing much smaller. 

I can make an argument for either route. Will be interesting.

Now would be a good time for the Wood/Bullock for Collins trade...

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

I agree with all of this. 

Not sure where the Walker news puts us on this spectrum, however, because my feeling is that about a week after he gets here he's going to want 15-20 minutes per (with some old man rest nights, obvs). 

When you look at the current rotation (the parts of it that are consistent, at least) his minutes can really only come from two places. I mean, sure, Dinwiddie and Luka's minutes can both be shaved a little, and probably should be, but the majority of Walker's role will have to be carved out from either A) THJ or B) by cutting the 4th big completely out of the rotation and playing much smaller. 

I can make an argument for either route. Will be interesting.

I know that you have a soft spot for Hardaway and I understand that this team's ceiling is much higher if Hardaway is playing and shooting well but would you agree that it's probably time to expand Green's role?  If we are trying to make Kemba and rotation player AND expand Green's minutes then I would assume that both A and B have to happen.

To the point @"vfromlmf" made about Hardaway being the vet and earning that starting role, I understand that point but would also introduce the counter point of the team potentially feeling otherwise.  Green is clearly the best player currently out of Bullock/Hardaway/Green and it hasn't really been close, I would go as far to argue that Green has been better than both in basically every facet of the game.  If the rest of the roster sees the coach making losing decisions like playing someone because he "owes" it to them vs playing the better player you can start to lose the locker room.  Just food for thought.

[dynamicalVoid]

I think you put THJ over Green on the basis of "he's a vet thats paid his dues and is owed" only if your team is winning.  Mavs are currently not winning.

[Kammrath]

If the rest of the roster sees the coach making losing decisions like playing someone because he "owes" it to them vs playing the better player you can start to lose the locker room.

AMEN.

Like I said in the game thread, the players KNOW who is best and who deserves to play. When coaches don't follow that reality they will quickly lose the trust of the coaching staff. And then it is game over.

[ThisIStheYear]

I mentioned this in the game thread a few days ago but I'm not surprised THJ got the start. In fact, I expected it and I think it's the right move. 

Bullock earned a long leash based on the WCF run and I expect Kidd stayed loyal to him out of respect. It was a locker room decision. I also bet that Kidd and the rest of the staff have been communicating with Reggie and the "day off," and subsequent move to the bench was no surprise to anyone. Reggie had to play better, but it wasn't working, so next man up.

I also bet THJ's move to the starting lineup was expected. In Kidd's hierarchical locker room, THJ earned the next opportunity to start. He was the starter before he got hurt last year, and he's the veteran. He was also playing terribly off the bench, so something needed to change with him too. 

Like it or not, this team really needs THJ to play well. You certainly can't move him out of the rotation or trade him. So if he's going to play, moving him to the starting lineup might be the best way to get him going. My best guess is this will be a brief audition, and if things don't improve, it will be Green's turn.

You can definitely move him out of the rotation, unless you think sunk costs should impact your decision making. But, hopefully we’ll get through this audition very soon and move on to other players.

[burekemde]

THJ sucks as a shooter, and as a defender, and he cant drive to the basket without missing or losing the ball. And he plays completely selfish on the offensive side outside of the team scheme this is obvious. That THJ started the last game, is a disaster of a coaching decision. Wood has been infinitely better, and Green has as well deserved that much more.

[dynamicalVoid]

It doesnt make sense.  This all must be an elaborate lie with the main objective being to trigger individuals.  What else makes sense?

THJ has been less of a ball hog the past couple of games.  Maybe he reads this forum and learned he is a ball hog and didnt know it.  If he maintains this team friendly approach offensively it will save me $700 from buying a ticket behind Mavs bench and getting removed from arena for heckling THJ with "PASS THE FUCKING BALL TIM"  non-stop until game is over or I am removed.

Even on this squad that lacks talent, Tim is not starting material and should not start.

[Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo]

I'm still okay with THJ shooting open 3s (yes, I most often end up pulling my hair, but, an open shot should be taken or else you sit).

The thing I don't like about THJ are his heat-check 3s. If he makes one, he often attempts another early in the shot clock and often times, its not an open shot, basically an ISO but with a pull up 3. The other maddening thing about THJ is his tendency not to pass on a break. If he was the type of player who could flush it with an And-1, it would have been okay, but his layups are "scared-I'll-throw-this-up-and-hope-I-get-a-foul" type of layups. Of course results in hilarious misses.

THJ's quick releases are the only advantage THJ has over Green, but quick releases don't mean anything if you still can't hit.

[ThisIStheYear]

THJ had a nice game tonight.  Well done.

[MrGoat]

Maybe Tim just plays better as a starter. That was also the case in 2020. We were starting Seth Curry or Courtney Lee at the beginning of that season and Tim stuck once he got promoted

[mvossman]

Maybe Tim just plays better as a starter. That was also the case in 2020. We were starting Seth Curry or Courtney Lee at the beginning of that season and Tim stuck once he got promoted

I think as a starter Timmy sees himself as complementing Luka.  As a bench player he sees himself as instant offense off the bench and forces things.

[KillerLeft]

I think as a starter Timmy sees himself as complementing Luka.  As a bench player he sees himself as instant offense off the bench and forces things.

This is a good theory. 

Since he isn't really a handler (he can handle the ball, especially relative to others on this roster, but it's not a strength of his) I know which role I'd prefer for him. 

I also think that he's a rhythm player who needs to feel out the rim a bit to get going. This is the 3rd time they've tried to make him a 6th man (Carlisle tried twice) and it hasn't looked good for a second. Every time they start him after a stretch where he comes off the bench he starts to play better almost immediately. 

I'm all for the THJ tenure in Dallas ending soon, just like most people. BUT, on a team so desperate for offensive competence, I feel pretty strongly that they should be doing everything in their power to get the best version of him while he's here.

[mvossman]

This is a good theory. 

Since he isn't really a handler (he can handle the ball, especially relative to others on this roster, but it's not a strength of his) I know which role I'd prefer for him. 

I also think that he's a rhythm player who needs to feel out the rim a bit to get going. This is the 3rd time they've tried to make him a 6th man (Carlisle tried twice) and it hasn't looked good for a second. Every time they start him after a stretch where he comes off the bench he starts to play better almost immediately. 

I'm all for the THJ tenure in Dallas ending soon, just like most people. BUT, on a team so desperate for offensive competence, I feel pretty strongly that they should be doing everything in their power to get the best version of him while he's here.

The best reason for starting him is that if he keeps putting up numbers like these last two games, he is going to be much easier to trade.  But this would make it even more imperative we need to get Din out of the starting lineup.

[KillerLeft]

The best reason for starting him is that if he keeps putting up numbers like these last two games, he is going to be much easier to trade.  But this would make it even more imperative we need to get Din out of the starting lineup.

I'm totally cool with trading him, eager even, but I might be the last guy who thinks once you get him playing well again he could be a piece you can win with. Either way, I agree with the idea that even if you don't want him around under any circumstances it will be much easier to move him if he's playing decently or well. 

And I totally agree about the Dinwiddie/THJ fit.

[BasketballJones41]

I think as a starter Timmy sees himself as complementing Luka.  As a bench player he sees himself as instant offense off the bench and forces things.

I posted this on the discord back when he was struggling but it seemed obvious to me for a while that Hardaway just understands how to play with Luka. Even when he’s not shooting well. He knows what to do and where to be to make life easier for Luka and unlike Bullock he doesn’t just stand around on off the ball. He runs off screens and cuts from time to time. He can also somewhat attack a close out in a way that Reggie and DFS can’t. Overall the offense just seems to have a better flow with him on the floor.

[ThisIStheYear]

Maybe he is just someone who needs the discipline of being a secondary scorer to operate with any efficiency. He deserves a few days of respite.