Tim Hardaway Jr.

[dynamicalVoid]

Is it not possible to ask this guy to make better basketball decisions while on the floor?  If he is not capable of that...should he not be moved or benched?  Its pretty bad when a casual has to create a post about it.

For all the "We have a modern offense" excuses I see around here...allowing a player at Tim's caliber to shoot whenever he pleases is not modern to me at all.   I dont know if I have ever seen someone "let them go" like this guy and never even be close to Curry-like which would maybe warrant that type of on court behavior.   

I have seen many defend him with "If he's not shooting he's worthless"..."We have to increase his value"..."No one else can get a shot off or is scared".   My most non-negative reply to these excuses is that you would increase his value by taking the green light to shoot whenever he wants away.   My uneducated opinion is that this will not only make him look better to other teams but also spread some of the shots he would take out to guys like Green, Wood, Frank.  Make him and the team better.

Why is this guy allowed to do whatever he wants on offense?

[dirkfansince1998]

Mavs have a glaring lack of shot creation. And for whatever reason they have decided that THJ is the solution of the bench. Completly ignoring that in his best seasons THJ was more like the player you want him to be. With a tighter leash under RC. Basically limited to catch and shoot only.

Not to mention that the real solution is getting 17 minutes (less than two minutes in the 4th quarter). I really hope that in the coming weeks Kidd and the staff will finally see the light and make real adjustments. No McGee. Less Bullock/THJ. More Green. More Frank. Find minutes for Bertans without taking them from Wood.

I know you aren´t the biggest fan of +/- and advanced metrics but if the stat nerds would make the lineup it would probably be something like this...

Luka/SD
Green/Frank
DFS/ THJ or Bullock
Wood/Bertans
Kleber/Powell

[Kammrath]

Luka/SD
Green/Frank
DFS/ THJ or Bullock
Wood/Bertans
Kleber/Powell

[Chicagojk]

It is a really odd situation.  His good games need to be better and much more frequent and his bad games can't be nearly as bad.   What are our options?  Do you reduce his playing time?   Will anyone trade for him over the next 18 months (not if this is his level of play).    I know this may be a little bit of a reach, but in time he certainly cannot limit the development of Hardy.   I viewed Hardaway as probably a guy we would love to move in the next year.   Right now, he is dead weight.    But we cannot keep him in the same role if he is here, unfortunately, for another 2.5 years.

[dynamicalVoid]

Let me warn anyone that posts expecting a response from me...it is going to be extremely hard for me to not be heavily negative on Tim with my replies...

That being said...

My take on THJ is that he is a weapon the team could use if he played correctly on offense.  But...time and time again he comes off as "gotta get his".   Not that it means anything...but Tim has probably the best looking shot in the League...great form and shoots at the top of his vertical...its good looking to me.   When he is on...he's a great weapon.   But...time and time again he ruins good performances by letting too many go.   He has a problem not being able to analyze the situation and gets blinded by the need to keep shooting at every chance.   He doesnt seem to have any awareness of taking shots too early in the shot clock, awareness of the flow of an offense when he's feeling it or have any awareness of if he is killing possessions.   All seem to be very bad qualities that outweigh his good.

I assume someone will chime in with "if you try and regulate a shooter it will mess with his head effecting his shot negatively".   I dont know if I buy that.  I think regulating THJ's ability to shoot is a reasonable request that could help him and should help the team.

[Chicagojk]

Mavs have a glaring lack of shot creation. And for whatever reason they have decided that THJ is the solution of the bench. Completly ignoring that in his best seasons THJ was more like the player you want him to be. With a tighter leash under RC. Basically limited to catch and shoot only.

Not to mention that the real solution is getting 17 minutes (less than two minutes in the 4th quarter). I really hope that in the coming weeks Kidd and the staff will finally see the light and make real adjustments. No McGee. Less Bullock/THJ. More Green. More Frank. Find minutes for Bertans without taking them from Wood.

I know you aren´t the biggest fan of +/- and advanced metrics but if the stat nerds would make the lineup it would probably be something like this...

Luka/SD
Green/Frank
DFS/ THJ or Bullock
Wood/Bertans
Kleber/Powell

I would like to see that starting lineup.   Is Kleber my ideal starting center?  Nope.  But that lineup will give us the best vision if this roster can be a threat as a playoff contender.

[JamesConway912]

Not surprised at all by this, he’s back to his New York role, not the spotup shooter he used to be here in his first two years.

We’re seeing the expected results from the role change.

[burekemde]

Mavs have a glaring lack of shot creation. And for whatever reason they have decided that THJ is the solution of the bench. Completly ignoring that in his best seasons THJ was more like the player you want him to be. With a tighter leash under RC. Basically limited to catch and shoot only.

Not to mention that the real solution is getting 17 minutes (less than two minutes in the 4th quarter). I really hope that in the coming weeks Kidd and the staff will finally see the light and make real adjustments. No McGee. Less Bullock/THJ. More Green. More Frank. Find minutes for Bertans without taking them from Wood.

I know you aren´t the biggest fan of +/- and advanced metrics but if the stat nerds would make the lineup it would probably be something like this...

Luka/SD
Green/Frank
DFS/ THJ or Bullock
Wood/Bertans
Kleber/Powell

This is pretty good. You need one player in addition to Luka, in Luka lineups, to be able to take the load when double teams come, hence ability to put the ball on the floor and attack the rim, Wood fits that role perfectly, even better than SD because he is so tall and easy for Luka to find him when the doubles come. Kleber, DFS, Green, Wood, they can all shoot. All can play D. I like it.

With the backups, SD can have an expanded role, I like this as well. I would just move down Frank in the third unit, as THJ still afterall is better player, despite being overrated.

[Scott41theMavs]

This is pretty good. You need one player in addition to Luka, in Luka lineups, to be able to take the load when double teams come, hence ability to put the ball on the floor and attack the rim, Wood fits that role perfectly, even better than SD because he is so tall and easy for Luka to find him when the doubles come. Kleber, DFS, Green, Wood, they can all shoot. All can play D. I like it.

With the backups, SD can have an expanded role, I like this as well. I would just move down Frank in the third unit, as THJ still afterall is better player, despite being overrated.

At this point, they need to give Hardy minutes.

[SwisherPrice]

Unfortunately, it looks like THJ is a big part of this offensive system. When he's in the game, they run sets for him and treat him like he's Steph Curry (at the expense of the other players on the floor). He is part of their core...unlike Wood 

[MrGoat]

It looks like they're trying to get him to shoot the rust off, he's missed a lot of time with injury. His net rating actually isn't bad, though I think that's mostly buoyed by playing minutes next to Wood and Green. We don't have many guys that can create their own shot so he'll have chances to get his shot up like it or not.

[Chicagojk]

I actually like Bertans spot yesterday.  Now he can provide little if he is missing his shots as well.  But he doesn't demand the ball and is also kind of a dick (in a good way) who pisses other teams off.  We need some of those guys.   It is tough to give both him and Hardaway good minutes each game.  I wonder if it ever becomes either/or for playing time?

[ItsGoTime]

I wonder if it ever becomes either/or for playing time?

I would love this. Give each of them about a 5 minute stretch in the first half. Whoever looks better out there gets an additional 10-15!

[dynamicalVoid]

It looks like they're trying to get him to shoot the rust off, he's missed a lot of time with injury. His net rating actually isn't bad, though I think that's mostly buoyed by playing minutes next to Wood and Green. We don't have many guys that can create their own shot so he'll have chances to get his shot up like it or not.

Do you think its worth investing in THJ or giving guys like Green a chance to get comfortable shooting?  Please dont respond with Green has been given chances and passes.   Green doesnt get the same plays run for him or opportunities to have wide open shots like THJ or Bullock.  Last couple of games he has...but prior he was stuck in the corner.

Going further...what rubs me the wrong way is that THJ seems completely fine "letting them go" possession after possession...even when there are youngsters on the court that could benefit from taking a shot or driving.  He doesnt seem like he wants to help anyone else.   Its not ideal behavior and I dont buy that the coaches are telling him to send it every chance he gets because I dont see other teams let players do what THJ does.

Is it me? Or does THJ have a selfish style of play for a very average player?  Like abnormally selfish compared to others around the League.  I feel it harms the team more than helps...regardless of our players' lack of offensive skill.

[KillerLeft]

It looks like they're trying to get him to shoot the rust off, he's missed a lot of time with injury. His net rating actually isn't bad, though I think that's mostly buoyed by playing minutes next to Wood and Green. We don't have many guys that can create their own shot so he'll have chances to get his shot up like it or not.

This. It's so obvious. 

Love him or hate him, THJ is probably either the 2nd or 3rd most offensively polished player on the roster (definitely not lower than 4th) and this team's offense is struggling badly. 

The team is desperately hoping that he regains some semblance of his former rhythm. Desperately. He's not going to stop shooting because that's what they want/need him to do. It's the entire reason he's out there in the first place. Ironically, passing up shots is probably the one thing that would get him benched.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

This. It's so obvious. 

Love him or hate him, THJ is probably either the 2nd or 3rd most offensively polished players on the roster (definitely not lower than 4th) and this team's offense is struggling badly. 

The team is desperately hoping that he regains some semblance of his former rhythm. Desperately. He's not going to stop shooting because that's what they want/need him to do. It's the entire reason he's out there in the first place. Ironically, passing up shots is probably the one thing that would get him benched.

If this is the case then I feel like there is some hypocrisy going on from Kidd and the coaching staff.  Many of the shots that Hardaway is taking are not good shots for any shooter, they are out of the rhythm of the offense and a lot of times done so over an easy pass to continue rotating the ball.  The hypocrisy to me is if we're going to let Hardaway build his offensive confidence up by letting him practice a ton of bad habits until he figures it out then why do they not feel the same way about Wood on defense (which kind of coincides with a point you made in the Wood thread about how we need to get him up to speed).

[ItsGoTime]

I think the reality is we're closer to THJ starting on this team than we are to his minutes being crunched.

[KillerLeft]

If this is the case then I feel like there is some hypocrisy going on from Kidd and the coaching staff.  Many of the shots that Hardaway is taking are not good shots for any shooter, they are out of the rhythm of the offense and a lot of times done so over an easy pass to continue rotating the ball.  The hypocrisy to me is if we're going to let Hardaway build his offensive confidence up by letting him practice a ton of bad habits until he figures it out then why do they not feel the same way about Wood on defense (which kind of coincides with a point you made in the Wood thread about how we need to get him up to speed).

I just don't think they look at things like this. Like, at all. 

I think they have "a job" in mind for each player, one with specific guidelines, and attached to specific remuneration. I think they're still hoping THJ will live up to the job he was given (same for Bullock, for that matter) and are designing the entire offense (to the extent you can call it design, so far) around the idea that he's a guy you get shots for. We can't be surprised that he's taking those shots, because they are the point of his time on the floor. If/when he knocks the rust off and gets back to a comfortable place, there's no question the team will be better. Obviously, the vast majority of Mavs fans have given up on this as a possibility, but it's clear and right in front of our faces that the Mavs (as of yet) have not. 

(I think there have been a few bad shots along the way that can be chalked up to "bad decisions" by Hardaway, but the vast majority of them are exactly what the team has in mind for him - otherwise, he would be yanked. Period.)

Back to my opening sentence, I don't think the "teammates competing for minutes" thing is a reality from top to bottom of roster. I think there's some competition, sure. McGee/Powell, for example, or Green/Ntilikina come to mind. But, there is literally no player on the roster who can do what they hope Hardaway can do. If/when they decide he can't do it, that's something that will have to be solved by re-designing to remove the role altogether or by trading for a player in whom they have more confidence. 

If you want to see more Green, you should be hoping for less Bullock. They play the same role. If you want to see more Wood, you should be hoping he establishes the trust of the coaches on the defensive end (whether you think that's fair or not) because they clearly favor guys at his position(s) who know the defensive responsibilities backwards and forwards. 

I really don't think Hardaway and Wood are being compared in the slightest.

---

I think the reality is we're closer to THJ starting on this team than we are to his minutes being crunched.

Totally agree. 

And, it's not crazy. The offense is TERRIBLE, and it's not like he's a worse defender than Dinwiddie (or the Bullock we've gotten lately, for that matter). 

The problem is that Hardaway is not playing well. We all agree on that. Since they desperately need him to play well, my guess is they're trying to figure out how to make him more comfortable, not how to remove him from the rotation.

[Kammrath]

The problem is that Hardaway is not playing well. We all agree on that. Since they desperately need him to play well, my guess is they're trying to figure out how to make him more comfortable, not how to remove him from the rotation.

I agree the Mavs need THJ to be better and also need him to be a contributor. But the way he is being used doesn't feel like a path of success. It feels like trying to shove a square peg in a round hole.

[KillerLeft]

I agree the Mavs need THJ to be better and also need him to be a contributor. But the way he is being used doesn't feel like a path of success. It feels like trying to shove a square peg in a round hole.

Yeah, there's some truth to this. 

Like I mentioned in the X's and O's thread, I feel like they're asking the team to learn an entirely new system. I feel like they tried this last year and gave up about halfway through the season and they're back at it again now. 

Does this new system not use Hardaway correctly?
Is their collective execution of the system so bad, currently, that it just looks like they're not using him the right way? 
Is it just a matter of him not playing well enough, and there's nothing to be done until he gets out of this funk, if he ever can?

I think it might be a combo of all three, but tough to tell right now, imo.