GAME 13 DIRKIE: Winner KP (67%) | Runner-up THJ (24%)

[fifteenth]

He's such an underrated player, imo, but I don't get why. It's not like his impact is hidden and only discoverable through stats. You can SEE (basically constantly) that he sets the tone of hustle and physicality, goes hardest for 50/50 balls, etc, even when he's not shooting well (which I admit is a drag, sometimes). 

2-3 straight years now of him starting the season in a shooting slump. I can't explain that, but I feel confident he'll be back around 40% when the dust clears. He's already showing signs of getting back into rhythm. This is just how his seasons start, for whatever reason.

Maybe people just like stats. Glue guys are needed. A glue guy that shoots like DFS ought to be coveted. Also, lots of folks like 1 big lineups, and even loved the small ball lineup. DFS is a big part of why we can play those lineups. Reggie can do some of what DFS does, and might even do it better from the small forward spot. But Reggie can't do what DFS does against bigger players. 

I've seen several folks speculate that we don't need DFS anymore because we have Reggie. Crazy talk. We pine for long, defensive minded wings who can shoot for years. We get two. And we want to get rid of one. AND we want to get rid of the one that is the heart and soul of the team.  

[mavsluvr]

He's such an underrated player, imo, but I don't get why. It's not like his impact is hidden and only discoverable through stats. You can SEE (basically constantly) that he sets the tone of hustle and physicality, goes hardest for 50/50 balls, etc, even when he's not shooting well (which I admit is a drag, sometimes). 

Agree that DFS has been an unsung hero for a long time. His style is so non-flashy that I think  he just doesn't catch people's eye for an award like the Dirkie. 


Do you read anything into Kidd's cutting his minutes and not including him in the closing lineup?

[Kammrath]

Do you read anything into Kidd's cutting his minutes and not including him in the closing lineup?

I personally see it as three things:

1) Just seeing what replacing DFS with RB does to some of the lineup dynamics.

2) Riding a "hot hand," not literally as RB hadn't shot much, but in the sense of RB was playing really well and doing all of those hidden small things that we love in DFS.

3) Knowing that he likely gets better spacing down the stretch with RB in place of DFS.


I have speculated that DFS might be expendable because of RB, but that is total guesswork from me. All I have wanted is more of a balance in their minutes. I think DFS loses some of his effectiveness when his minutes get higher (especially over 30 IMO) and I think RB offers this team something really special it doesn't really get from anywhere else (in large part because of his quick release and ability shoot coming around screens). 

And for the record I really like having BOTH guys on the team, but realistically I see DFS as one of the Mavs trade chips if they decide to upgrade via trade.

[fifteenth]

but realistically I see DFS as one of the Mavs trade chips if they decide to upgrade via trade

[KillerLeft]

Do you read anything into Kidd's cutting his minutes and not including him in the closing lineup?

Not really. 

For one thing, I think DFS's normal minute pattern was a bit off due to that stretch where he played the 5. Kidd is obviously experimenting with everything other than the starting lineup these days, which I think is probably what he he should be doing (though I'm ready to see Kleber for Powell when he's healthy, personally). 

I think there are areas of overlap with DFS/Bullock, so I get why people are focused on that comparison, but I don't see anything redundant there to the point where either of them should be worried about their jobs. I think BOTH should be playing the kind of minutes that DFS normally plays, and that the two-big lineups should be decreased, gradually. 

Bullock is still slumping as a catch-and-shoot guy relative to our expectations, while DFS is showing signs of finding rhythm. HOWEVER, I agree with those who point out that even in that situation, Bullock's gravity is noticeably different by comparison. In a situation where spacing is the PRIMARY concern, I think Bullock probably needs to be part of the closing lineup. Last night, with Jokic really being the only offensive creator to worry about (no Murray or MPJ), I don't think DFS was needed. 

I do NOT agree that Bullock has shown to be better than DFS defensively, to this point. I think they're both above average, but I think DFS is much more versatile defensively. Uncommonly so, imo. 

I think the ownership he has in this locker room and emotional leadership he provides this team are routinely missed by fans. I think he has almost as much claim to be on a "leadership council" as Hardaway (not meant as a slight against Tim). In short, I believe the organization views him as a core player, not a fringe player, and rightfully so. Things change, and I'm not saying it's impossible to imagine them moving him (the line for his services will form to the left), but I definitely don't think Bullock is somehow making this likely (though I'm happy to have ADDED Bullock). 

I think the occasional night of lowered minutes for DFS is a good thing, for him and for the experience level of those who play more that night. I thought it made sense last night. I do think the Mavs would've won that game with him in the closing lineup, too, however.

[mavsluvr]

I think there are areas of overlap with DFS/Bullock, so I get why people are focused on that comparison, but I don't see anything redundant there to the point where either of them should be worried about their jobs. I think BOTH should be playing the kind of minutes that DFS normally plays, and that the two-big lineups should be decreased, gradually.

Great observations in your above post. 


The only slight confirmation I have is from the new Dameris-MF pod. They report that Kidd thinks the two-big lineups are important, for reasons related to both protecting KP and giving the opponents a variety of looks, and that they won't be going away. However, in the podcasters' opinions, they may decrease gradually and appear to a lesser degree, as you suggest.

[KillerLeft]

They report that Kidd thinks the two-big lineups are important, for reasons related to both protecting KP and giving the opponents a variety of looks, and that they won't be going away.

Yeah, I think we're all ships passing one another in the night on this, due to semantics. 

I think many of us are relieved to see Kidd going to Porzingis at the 5 as the solo big at all, as we were worried that he simply didn't agree philosophically with an approach that many of us believe is the very best option the Mavericks have to create an advantage. 

But, he has been doing that, more and more frequently, and with overwhelmingly positive results. Results that are too positive to ignore, imo. This proves that he/they are at least aware that it's an option, and have to be cognizant on some level that it's the correct option in certain situations, even if we might disagree about just where the line should be drawn there. 

I don't think anyone objects to the logic that two-bigs should also be an option, for reasons not limited to but certainly including the idea that managing wear and tear on Kneezingis has to be a priority for the team as presently constructed. I think we'll like this approach even more if/when Kleber comes back and again reaches the level he showed in his last game. I'm not a Powell hater, but it would be nice to have options for those two-big minutes, imo, and Kleber provides benefits that WCS/Boban/Brown just can't offer. 

But, it remains clear to me that the true best version of this team is with KP at the 5, playing the two-man game with Luka, with three shooters spacing for them. I'm thrilled to see evidence (I believe) that what the staff is attempting is to both train the squad to play that way and to monitor KP's load so as to give him at least a minor chance at being ready to play that way more when the most important moments of games/the season is reached.

[KillerLeft]

I would add that it seems to me the trio of Luka/Brunson/Hardaway has been exceptionally effective lately on offense (would love a confirmation/denial of that from @"Kammrath"). 

In the circumstances born from a desire to play that trio more often, Luka is basically a forward on defense, so...that creates a situation wherein this whole Bullock vs. DFS, two-bigs vs. one situation gets a little trickier. 

All in all, options are good at this time, I feel.

[KillerLeft]

Luka got a catch-and-shoot three point opportunity last night, which he drained. In past seasons, 10-12 games would go by without a single such opportunity. We have seen more "off-ball Luka" this past week than we have since his rookie season.

I don't think a philosophical change in that direction is needed, but I ABSOLUTELY think proving to this team, and to Luka, that they can succeed that way in spurts is a good goal.

[fifteenth]

"off-ball Luka"

 I like that "off the ball" Luka at least throws a wrench into trapping and double teaming Luka.

[KillerLeft]

I like that "off the ball" Luka at least throws a wrench into trapping and double teaming Luka.

Absolutely.

[mavsluvr]

I would add that it seems to me the trio of Luka/Brunson/Hardaway has been exceptionally effective lately on offense (would love a confirmation/denial of that from @"Kammrath"). 

In the circumstances born from a desire to play that trio more often, Luka is basically a forward on defense, so...that creates a situation wherein this whole Bullock vs. DFS, two-bigs vs. one situation gets a little trickier. 

All in all, options are good at this time, I feel.

Per NBA advanced stats, that group has played together 128 minutes, and has an offensive rating of 117.5, net rating of +2.5. That's for the whole season, so far. There are additional stats available, if you are interested in a different evaluation than point differential, or for only the last x games.

[KillerLeft]

an offensive rating of 117.5

I feel like that's pretty damn good, am I crazy?

[mavsluvr]

I feel like that's pretty damn good, am I crazy?

Iirc, average offensive efficiency across the league is in the neighborhood of 106. 

In the last playoffs, I think Portland had the highest number at around 122. 

Seems like 117 is way up there. 

That group has some obvious defensive issues, but as far as scoring, they appear to be a well-oiled machine.

[ItsGoTime]

I think the ownership he has in this locker room and emotional leadership he provides this team are routinely missed by fans.

I don't really get this mentality. Similar to the mentality of "Keep Boban or you make Luka mad", if Powell (lockerroom leader or so we've been told) and DFS were off this team, someone else would step up into that type of role, if it is indeed a role they have. Sure there is no guarantee how well that will work with a new voice, but the ultimate leader in the lockerroom is Luka. 


Take for instance, let's say we acquire Marcus Smart and DFS was not a part of the outgoing. I'd venture to guess Smart would take up a large part of that role you're saying DFS is taking on. If DFS was a part of the outgoing, Smart would still be that guy. Just an example to make the point. There is a chance that Smart doesn't work out in that role, but he could work out better.

I like DFS, I like his personality, his work ethic, his drive. There are a lot of players out there that could do what he does. There are a good amount that could do it better.

[KillerLeft]

I don't really get this mentality. Similar to the mentality of "Keep Boban or you make Luka mad", if Powell (lockerroom leader or so we've been told) and DFS were off this team, someone else would step up into that type of role, if it is indeed a role they have. Sure there is no guarantee how well that will work with a new voice, but the ultimate leader in the lockerroom is Luka. 

Take for instance, let's say we acquire Marcus Smart and DFS was not a part of the outgoing. I'd venture to guess Smart would take up a large part of that role you're saying DFS is taking on. If DFS was a part of the outgoing, Smart would still be that guy. Just an example to make the point. There is a chance that Smart doesn't work out in that role, but he could work out better.

I like DFS, I like his personality, his work ethic, his drive. There are a lot of players out there that could do what he does. There are a good amount that could do it better.

I think the reason you don't see where I'm coming from is that you disagree with my assessment of the player. 

I think DFS does much more to tangibly and positively affect the game than Boban does, so that comparison doesn't make sense to me. I don't think they're playing or giving him undue respect because he's a good guy. I think he's a fine player who has earned a leadership role on the team, and honestly, is one of the bigger reasons the team has become a perennial playoff qualifier. I think Boban's personality is the primary reason he has a job, period. Not the only reason, but the chief reason. 

...and I just flat out want DFS over Smart for any team, pretty much (unless the guy HAD to be a guard). Every Celtics fan I know HATES that guy (I'm aware that he's from here, and that every Mavs fan thinks he's the missing piece). 

I just think we have two, drastically different levels of appreciation for DFS. I'm not trying to convince you mine is correct and yours is false. BUT, to this point, I think there's reason to believe the Mavericks are closer to where I am with it (though things change).

EDIT: if it's not clear above, I DON'T think DFS's leadership qualities are THE reason he's so important for this team. I think he's a vastly underrated PLAYER. That's my point.

[SleepingHero]

I like DFS, I like his personality, his work ethic, his drive. There are a lot of players out there that could do what he does. There are a good amount that could do it better.

I'm leaning towards disagreeing with this take. Chemistry is a fickle thing in the NBA. Building it is not as simple as fitting guys together in a locker room and expecting them to work like Tetris pieces. 

Of course moving one locker room leader and replacing him with another will inevitably lead to a change in voice, but like you say, we can't predict if the results will be better, worse, or neutral just by the move alone. That's not to say we should never make a trade at the cost of ruining chemistry because that's how we get a roster like we have now. 

What I DO know is that Boban is about the most beloved locker room guy we've had since Dirk. EVERYONE loves Boban. Fans, the team, even the dang opponent.  That isn't easily replaceable. Powell is a fantastic locker room guy, and it's disappointing he's not as equally good on the court.

And yes DFS is a great locker room guy. I don't think he's one of the main voices back there, but it's apparent he sets a tone with his activity on the court. 

I also think trading him for a guy like Marcus Smart wouldn't be such a bad thing. Not because I think Smart will be a better locker room guy, but because Smart is arguably the best defensive guard in the NBA.

[KillerLeft]

but it's apparent he sets a tone with his activity on the court. 

This. 

And it's not a small, nebulous thing, either. You can see it every night. It's tangible, tactile, palpable.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

Luka got a catch-and-shoot three point opportunity last night, which he drained. In past seasons, 10-12 games would go by without a single such opportunity. We have seen more "off-ball Luka" this past week than we have since his rookie season.

I don't think a philosophical change in that direction is needed, but I ABSOLUTELY think proving to this team, and to Luka, that they can succeed that way in spurts is a good goal.

That sequence started with the best pass I've ever seen Hardaway make which I thought was really cool.  Not something I'd expect him to continue but it's nice to dream.

[SleepingHero]

I think he's a vastly underrated PLAYER. That's my point.

I think he's rated quite on the spot. He's a hustle 3-D guy that puts his body on the line every chance he can. Fantastic guy to have on your team, but by no means is he irreplaceable. 

I'm curious to see what'd you'd trade DFS for? Here's a list of guys at different tiers. Would you include DFS in a package for them? Let's assume it's a reasonable package for whatever the name is (i.e. for Ayton KP+DFS+Picks, PJ Tucker: DFS straight up, etc.):

KAT
Deandre Ayton
Paul George
Brandon Ingram
SGA
Donovan Mitchell

Jonas Valanciunas
Christian Wood
Jerami Grant
Miles Bridges
Dejounte Murray
Marcus Smart

What about for wings straight up? Guys like Joe Ingles? Bojan Bogdonavic? OG Anunoby? Wiggins? Hayward?

I would include DFS for any one of these guys save for Wood/Valanciunas/Murray, and maybe Smart depending on the package.