Of Freedom, Country and Vaccination

[Mapka]

Hey, at least I have some unique ability. 

---

Actually a combination of the 2 works as well?  Both? 

Mass infection can be a misleading term when millions of people have been infected and had very little or even no symptoms generating their antibodies through natural immunity.

"Herd immunity" is no realistic option since the mutation to the later versions of the virus.

And I kinda agree with you  about the "mass infection is misleading", it's more like russian roulette:
You can take the vaxxer-colt with one bullet in like a million chambers or you can take the anti-vaxxer-colt with a bullet in thousand chambers. 

Good Luck.

[Jannemann2]

@"WildArkieBoy"this is totally off topic, but I'll use the opportunity to confess I've developed a weird love for your posts ! Keep going!

[fifteenth]

Perhaps we need Harrison to pray the covid away for Burke...? 

Eh... It's not the same. I don't think we'll ever recapture that magic of that legendary thread.

Hey now. In the sumer of 2020 a good friend of ours, kind of an honorary granddad for my kids had covid. He's in his 70's with underlying conditons. My wife, kids and I prayed for him every day. The first time we prayed for him was on the phone with him and that's when he started getting better. He made it and is still kick'n. We pray for people who are sick all the time. 

It's possible to be a Jesus follower, pray for folks, "love your neighbor" in any way that you can and also NOT be into conspiricy theories, NOT want to fight everyone for the right to rule the country according to our own self interests and NOT have an irrational mistrust of Science. 

I got to know the self check out guy at Kroger. One day he was hurting and told me that his doctor said he had a degnerative knee conditoin. I asked him if I could pray for him and he said yes, that he believes in the Great Physician, so I put my hand on his shoulder and asked God to heal his knee. I went in to Kroger a week later and he was beaming. Told me God had heald his knee and that the doctor said he saw no signs of anything wrong with his knee. After that, every time I went to get groceries he'd have something to tell me about what God was doing in his life. 

So if Trey needs prayer, tell him to call me. :-) Or anyone one else. I'll pray for folks right here in the thread if you're suffering or need wisdom. Need prayer? I'm your huckleberry.

[SleepingHero]

Hey now. In the sumer of 2020 a good friend of ours, kind of an honorary granddad for my kids had covid. He's in his 70's with underlying conditons. My wife, kids and I prayed for him every day. The first time we prayed for him was on the phone with him and that's when he started getting better. He made it and is still kick'n. We pray for people who are sick all the time. 

It's possible to be a Jesus follower, pray for folks, "love your neighbor" in any way that you can and also NOT be into conspiricy theories, NOT want to fight everyone for the right to rule the country according to our own self interests and NOT have an irrational mistrust of Science. 

I got to know the self check out guy at Kroger. One day he was hurting and told me that his doctor said he had a degnerative knee conditoin. I asked him if I could pray for him and he said yes, that he believes in the Great Physician, so I put my hand on his shoulder and asked God to heal his knee. I went in to Kroger a week later and he was beaming. Told me God had heald his knee and that the doctor said he saw no signs of anything wrong with his knee. After that, every time I went to get groceries he'd have something to tell me about what God was doing in his life. 

So if Trey needs prayer, tell him to call me. :-) Or anyone one else. I'll pray for folks right here in the thread if you're suffering or need wisdom. Need prayer? I'm your huckleberry.

I'm all for prayer and do believe it can help, but I don't think it should ever be a primary defense against a disease like a vaccine. 

I was mostly being sarcastic in trying to tie the two threads together with a joke, but it wasn't a very good one. 

In any case I'm glad to know you're empathetic enough to care about the health for random strangers!

[WildArkieBoy]

@"WildArkieBoy"this is totally off topic, but I'll use the opportunity to confess I've developed a weird love for your posts ! Keep going!

Thank you very much.  This board is simply a refuge for me, a break from pandemic coping, tiptoeing around our country's polarization, hoping that Earth keeps keepin' on.  
The idea that "my" team ends up with a higher number than other teams more often than not doesn't seem like a grownup endeavor.  I can't justify it or explain it so I embrace it as maybe therapeutic.  

WAB

[Kammrath]

prayer

Now that's a massive can of worms as well, since I think our whole Western notion of prayer tends to turn it into something akin to rubbing a genie-bottle and divorce it from its actual essence. 

[KillerLeft]

Now that's a massive can of worms as well, since I think our whole Western notion of prayer tends to turn it into something akin to rubbing a genie-bottle and divorce it from its actual essence. 

That's interesting! What is prayer to you? I'm genuinely interested.

[jerryjohnson]

That's interesting! What is prayer to you? I'm genuinely interested.

Me too.

[luka_skywalker_77]

What experimental substance?  I’m talking about personal liberties and the over reach of government.  Isn’t that what this thread is about?  

By the way, big star wars fan here too.

This MRNA process is experimental and the application of it has never made it to market. In fact, prior results were disasterous. The substance, although quickly tested, hasn't undergone substantial testing over a significant period of time to determine efficacy. This is the first attempt at it in human history. 

Nice false equivalence. Last I checked pregnancies aren't contagious and don't affect society as a whole.

Nope, he's 100% correct on this. If my body my choice means anything, this is what it means. 

I think the bigger issue is that articles or studies like the mentioned ones are shared without looking into them. Just posting random "critical" studies or articles without even trying to look at the data or context. That´s actually the opposite of critical thinking.

People are free to voice their opinion but in this case opinions aren´t equal. We have experts, we have studies and research of different quality and we have a lot of pseudoscience. If a flawed study is used to make a case against the vaccine we are getting very close to the dreaded "Fake News" category. It´s not a good thing. It´s dangerous.

Good example: I could use the same flawed numbers that the article provided to make the opposite case. According to the data in the under 50 category 75% of deaths occurred in the unvaccinated group.

I'm not sure you have any idea how many "peer reviewed" studies are often bunk. 

Answer, thousands. May as well say they were "fact checked". 

For example, the litany of studies suggesting the efficacy of masking. The problem I see within a number of your responses, is that your assumption of you operating from a position of truth. You think, your sources are unbiased, accurate, proven and logical, when over the past 2 years, they've proven anything but. What you call an expert is nothing more than a licensed bureaucrat making decisions that offer no logical support. We can go through the number of studies that were retracted, proven false or otherwise conducted improperly if you'd like. We can start with the imperial college data model and move on from there. But this notion, that you're somehow based in logical reasoning despite the dumba**ery we've witnessed from the same "professionals" is ridiculous. 

But to take it back to your point, can you show to me the data that suggests we mask and vaccinate children?

Not true. In America it actually started with Washington himself who enforced smallpox inoculation. Some historians go as far and claim that it was the deciding factor in the war.
Always was a controversial topic (as it should be) but on a state level we have seen it. Best example would be the smallpox legislation in Massachusetts. Upheld by the supreme court more than 100 years later. Other good example would be the measles outbreak in Alaska in 1976. It´s not like the mandate didn´t exist prior to it but outbreaks like this forced the government to enforce them.
We have different vaccination requirements for public schools depending on the state. And obviously requirements for certain jobs (army, medical workers...).

Not to mention other highly developed countries. In the last 100 years most of western Europe enforced polio, small pox, tuberculosis and measles vaccines. Got rid of it after the diseases was completely or nearly eliminated. A lot of them still have mandates for other diseases that are comparable to the public school requirements in most states.

Calling this akin to the smallpox vaccine is ridiculous. Pox efficacy is +90% at infection mitigation. 

The covid vaccine is roughly 0%.

Not the same my friend. 

@"dirkfansince1998", thanks

Great job of presenting straight forward explanations, advocating for peer reviewed research and calmly pointing out logical fallacies while not descending into YouTube comment section style flame throwing matches.

He's done everything but.

[luka_skywalker_77]

What's silly, is this idea that you will solve this crisis by vaccinating everyone, so let me explain a few things outright so that we can put that to rest. 

1. There will be no cure/vaccine for the common cold/flu/covid virus of any relatability, which is why this therapeutic is nothing more than a flu shot.
2. This vaccine does not stop transmission and in fact, the vaccinated and unvaccinated transmit at the same or even greater rates. 
3. The vaccine does not stop you from getting covid, but you may have a better chance at mitigating serious illness. There is a lot to be said for humans toying with the immune process--there isn't enough data to accurate predict how a long term immune management like will affect people.
4. People are not only dying from the vaccine, they are also dying after contracting covid while having the vaccine. There are also close to a million documented cases of side effects. 
5. You will require twice yearly booster the rest of your life at this point, so get used to it. 
6. Natural immunity is greater than a temporary, vaccine induced immunity. 
7. The unvaccinated pose no threat to the vaccinated and in fact, the vaccinated shouldn't care. 
8. There's a reason they stopped talking about breakthrough cases. 
9. This will not end with 100% vaccination rates because this leaky vaccine does not stop transmission or infection. If you want an idea about how 100% will play out, pay attention to Israel. 
10. They changed the definition of what a vaccine is to fit the narrative they want you to believe. It was changed from what we commonly know as a vaccine to something more of a therapeutic--which is what this vaccine is. This isn't a pox vaccine. It doesn't stop anything and they knew that months ago.
11. Masks have not worked in any place on earth in containing covid 19. 
12. Lockdowns have not worked in any place on earth in containing covid 19.
13. Advance/early treatment is still the best way to contain the outbreak. 
14. Ivermectin works and is proven to work. Limiting Doctors from prescribing it is allowing more people to die when they don't have to. It's their JOB to prescribe the best medication for the task, and that shouldn't be up to the gov't or some pharmacists to determine. If you want to talk about experts, you have no discussion here. 
15. Limiting the shipping of monoclonal antibodies is simply evil and political. This is what was given to Trump last year, under the name of regeneron. It somehow went relatively unpublicized because "idiots". 
16. 99% of all people infected with covid recover fine. That has never changed. A positive result has never been an automatic death sentence. 
17. 95% of all covid deaths in the US are over the age of 50 (with comorbidities). Anyone under that age should be able to make their own choices on taking a vax or not.
18. Kids are NOT affected by this pandemic, apart from the measures we've taken to limit them from the rest of society and to keep them out of school. No data supports this. 
19. We have more infections and deaths this year on a month to month basis WITH A VACCINE than we did last year without one. 
20. Lastly, Fauci funded GOF research and will pay for this. He's as culpable as anyone else in this regard and his involvement with the HIV treatments in Africa are simply a precursor to this. He has lied repeatedly during this pandemic and is nothing more than a politician at this point. 

** people aren't stupid (some are but generally speaking, no). They can tell when they are being lied to or at the very least, can tell when people are being disingenuous. The gov't and other public heath officials in the US and some other places, have been miscommunicating, flat out lying and misrepresenting basic information this entire time--not to mention, being the absolutely worst at basic analysis for policy's sake and for providing data for people to make up their own minds about their own situations. That, is fact. We in the US have the absolute worst collection of data regarding the pandemic and it's intentional. it's why they say "trust the experts/trust the science" while never providing you ANYTHING of basis for that. this is the gov'ts fault and it's Fauci's fault, period. They've done nothing but lie and obfuscate and what's worse, that has infected the science of it all. 

It's nothing more than a power grab--a reset of everything--and while we're chasing the covid rabbit, they're passing trillions upon trillions of dollars of aide you'll never see, increasing their authority over you, opening the country wide to any and person walking across the border, remaking and reshaping the demographic if this country to a bunch of people that have no idea why this country was built. It'll fall because we'd no longer be a country of Americans, but a country of random people with no commonality. And you can thank politicians, social media/big tech and democrats and weak kneed republicans (about 80% of them) for that. 

And it's all figure-headed by an old, senile dementia patient that loves ice cream and early bed times...

[Kammrath]

What is prayer to you?

Well trying to be as brief as possible with an expansive subject:

Prayer is surrender, submission, and seeking of the Creator's will. It is a constant state of being ("pray without ceasing") where a person lets go of their will in order to seek and push for the Creator's will. The epitome of this is seen in the "Lord's Prayer" and in the Garden of Gethsemane before Jesus's crucifixion.

The Lord's Prayer is a series of commands (imperative verbs) to the Creator Father, demanding that his will be done. So it is a passive surrendering of my will, but an active grabbing of the Creator's will. 

Πάτερ ἡμῶν ὁ ἐν τοῖς οὐρανοῖς· ("our Father who is in the invisible realm") ἁγιασθήτω τὸ ὄνομα σου· ("make your name holy") ἐλθέτω ἡ βασιλεία σου· ("bring your rule") γενηθήτω τὸ θέλημα σου, ("make your will happen") ὡς ἐν οὐρανῷ καὶ ἐπὶ γῆς· ("as in the invisible realm also in the visible realm") τὸν ἄρτον ἡμῶν τὸν ἐπιούσιον δὸς ἡμῖν σήμερον· ("give to us this day our sustenance that is necessary for the moment") καὶ ἄφες ἡμῖν τὰ ὀφειλήματα ἡμῶν, ὡς καὶ ἡμεῖς ἀφήκαμεν τοῖς ὀφειλέταις ἡμῶν· ("and forgive us our debts as we forgive those who are in debt to us") καὶ μὴ εἰσενέγκῃς ἡμᾶς εἰς πειρασμόν, ἀλλὰ ρῦσαι ἡμᾶς ἀπὸ τοῦ πονηροῦ. ("and do not abandon us in trial, but rescue us from what is unnatural")

The prayer in the Garden of Gethsemane recognizes the selfish will, but then lays it at the altar of the Creator's will.

πάτερ μου, εἰ δυνατόν ἐστιν, παρελθάτω ἀπ᾿ ἐμοῦ τὸ ποτήριον τοῦτο· ("my Father, if it is possible, remove this cup from me") πλὴν οὐχ ὡς ἐγὼ θέλω ἀλλ᾿ ὡς σύ. ("but not as I will, but as you will")

So point being: Prayer is not a genie or a vending-machine where we come to get what we "want." Such a thing has nothing to do with prayer. Prayer is a constant seeking (and demanding) of the Creator's will, which as we see in the case of Jesus, does not lead to immediate healing, comfort, or prosperity, but to the life of the cross, the path of self-sacrifice and death at the hands of our enemies...even as we wait on the Creator for his work of resurrection. The Creator's will is resurrection through death. To pray therefore is to seek resurrection through death. The genie or vending machine imagery wants to bypass death and that is not the Father's will.

[fifteenth]

Nope, he's 100% correct on this. If my body my choice means anything, this is what it means. 

The difference is pretty clear. You, Mr. Skywalker, getting pregnant, doesn't immediately put those in your poximity in danger of contracting a potentially deadly virus. Whether that difference means that a vaccine mandate is reasonable is still a discussion. But the discussion can't end with, "they're the same", because they're not. 

I'm not sure you have any idea how many "peer reviewed" studies are often bunk.

The peer review process isn't perfect, but it does provide an avenue for experts to review and critique the work of others that should be experts as well. The hope is that this pushes the science forward as things get incorporated, revised or thrown out. Not all journals are of equal value, and if a journal publishes questionable stuff too often, or published poor work for profit motive, or if folks create their own journals to try to push sub standard work, then the folks that know what they're doing eventually learn that about the outlets that are substandard. 

Folks leaning on non-expert, non peer reviewed stuff regarding the pandemic has lead to the circulatoin of some pretty crazy, easily debunked beliefs about the virus.

He's done everything but.

I don't really get this comment. Even if you disagree with his content, he's been a gentlement. Same for @"Dahlsim" actually. 

Not sure if I've read all your stuff, so maybe you've done the same. Your stuff seems to be "assertion" heavy. But if you don't value the peer review process, then maybe that's what you're left with.

[Jmaciscool]

14. Ivermectin works and is proven to work.

I'm very curious on this point - what are your sources that a anti-parasitic drug that's often prescribed for livestock has any positive effect on Covid?  Is Covid actually a parasite?  Does the drug have a side effect that somehow impacts the Covid virus?  What am I missing here?

I'll be completely up front with you - I read through your points and didn't agree with any of them, but I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise because I realize we just see things differently.

But I'm genuinely curious how the Ivermectin train got rolling because I've heard this from other people as well but I haven't found what sources contributed to this.

(And I hope I'm not coming off as rude, that's certainly not my intent.  I'm just legitimately trying to figure out this particular viewpoint because it honestly makes no sense at all to me based on the knowledge I currently have).

[fifteenth]

So point being: Prayer is not a genie or a vending-machine where we come to get what we "want." Such a thing has nothing to do with prayer. Prayer is a constant seeking (and demanding) of the Creator's will, which as we see in the case of Jesus, does not lead to immediate healing, comfort, or prosperity, but to the life of the cross, the path of self-sacrifice and death at the hands of our enemies...even as we wait on the Creator for his work of resurrection. The Creator's will is resurrection through death. To pray therefore is to seek resurrection through death. The genie or vending machine imagery wants to bypass death and that is not the Father's will.

I agree with a lot of this Kam, and of course I'll spare you the Bible study, because I think you know the scriptures. But, while "not my will, but yours be done", and "being burried with Him..." are core and central, our Father also asks us to bring our needs to him. Not that he does everything we ask, like a genie, but that he's compassionate, he hears, he sees and he may very well intervene when we ask. I think you can see that in the scriptures without having a "God is a vending maching" mentality.

[luka_skywalker_77]

The difference is pretty clear. You, Mr. Skywalker, getting pregnant, doesn't immediately put those in your proximity of contracting a potentially deadly virus. Whether that difference means that a vaccine mandate is reasonable is still a discussion. But the discussion can't end with, "they're the same", because they're not. 

The peer review process isn't perfect, but it does provide an avenue for experts to review and critique the work of others that should be experts as well. The hope is that this pushes the science forward as things get incorporated, revised or thrown out. Not all journals are of equal value, and if a journal publishes questionable stuff too often, or published poor work for profit motive, or if folks create their own journals to try to push sub standard work, then the folks that know what they're doing eventually learn that about the outlets that are substandard. 

Folks leaning on non-expert, non peer reviewed stuff regarding the pandemic has lead to the circulatoin of some pretty crazy, easily debunked beliefs about the virus.

I don't really get this comment. Even if you disagree with his content, he's been a gentlement. Same for @"Dahlsim" actually. 

Not sure if I've read all your stuff, so maybe you've done the same. Your stuff seems to be "assertion" heavy. But if you don't value the peer review process, then maybe that's what you're left with.

Deadly? Potentially deadly. Again 99%, so I don't agree with your premise. My weekend's football watching negates that point, for if it were truly deadly---anyways. They are the same for all intents and purposes aiming towards ending the pandemic. Problem is, they wont. This is basically recommending a cup of coffee to solve a stomach ache. Yes there are over 600k deaths, many that could have been preventable provided proper prophylaxes were used in the proper timeframes. We're trending beyond those rates now WITH a vaccine so perhaps certain treatments weren't properly examined?

In terms of peer review--i think you have the wrong impression. PR doesn't mean unbiased, nor does it mean a paper was checked for factual basis or accuracy upon review. It's not entirely meant to be trusted. 

But I'm more than happy to provide any context to something you've questioned; most of which is outside of the mainstream biases. I contend i've not said anything inaccurate here that i can't back up in conversation.

[TXBamanut]

1). There is no clear mandate in Scripture anywhere to take medicine to stop the spread of disease.  While not a primary point, it does need to be made.

2). I'm not against the vaccine.  The only way to get immunity is to have COVIDand survive or trigger your body to create immunity through vaccine.

3). For all that say herd immunity is impossible, you aren't following science.  The Israeli study had 2.5 million people in it and it says that not only is natural immunity superior than the vaccine in many ways, it is also superior in dealing with variants.  It is just a study though and not concrete reality, but a study that large should be given a lot of weight.

3). A recent per reviewed study that came out last month was finding antibodies and t and b cells in bone marrow 8-10 months after infection suggesting that it clearly is longer lasting than many originally assumed.  They had to assume and err on the side of caution because only time could tell.  You are talking about 90-92% of people after having had COVID there.  Same percentages as the vaccine.

3). I don't have a problem if someone takes the vaccine.  I also don't have a problem if someone else has had COVID and chooses not to take the vaccine and my point comes from reading studies, not one sided media driven articles ABOUT studies.

4). I assume that someone mentioned Ivermectin.  A few things on that.  I haven't taken it, but have several friends, including ER nurses, who have been taking it since the first study on it came out last December, which was fine by leading doctors of humans in the field of immunology.  Ivermectin has already been prescribed safely to humans  over 1 billion times, so it's not an experimental horse medicine.  The friends I have that have taken it all swear by it, some having taken it as a prophylactic (preventative) and after they have contacted COVID, and they claim it cleared up their symptoms rather quickly.  

One friend has taken it for almost a year, as she has worked, unvaccinated, with COVID patients in the hospital and has never contacted the disease.

One of my daughters tested positive in March, to and we quarantined our while house for 2 weeks, but none of us ever treated positive.  The rest of our family caught the variant (judging by the proliferation and the speed at which it moved).  We didn't quarantine from each other and the daughter that had it originally never tested positive for it.

All the anecdotal stuff I take with a grain of salt, because there are loads of variables as to why one person gets it and the other doesn't.

Still, more and more studies are being done and are being peer reviewed with the majority of them saying that natural immunity from contracting the virus last much longer than previously suggested and is as strong or stronger in many cases than immunity from the vaccine.

No one wants the virus and the whole point is NOT to get it, so vax away, but it's finish, imho, with all the studies I've read (not articles, but the studies) to just discount immunity from contracting the virus as nothing and say the vaccine is the only safe way.

Realize, I'm also a person who has lost about 10 friends to COVID, 4 of them FULLY vaccinated (do the statistics on that and mesh that with the numbers they are saying) and all of them on their first care of the virus.

I know no one who has gotten it, survived it, gotten it a second time and then had to be hospitalized on the second bout.  I know people who have gotten it twice, but all of them, the second time wasn't really a big deal at all.

That's just me, so, as I said, take the anecdotal stuff with a grain of salt, even mine.

[Dahlsim]

"Herd immunity" is no realistic option since the mutation to the later versions of the virus.

And I kinda agree with you  about the "mass infection is misleading", it's more like russian roulette:
You can take the vaxxer-colt with one bullet in like a million chambers or you can take the anti-vaxxer-colt with a bullet in thousand chambers. 

Good Luck.

1) On 'herd immunity' perhaps you didn't read my response carefully.  I said 'both'. 

2) Your odds are of course completely non-scientific and sarcastic but if we gave a real effort to compare the 'odds' of detrimental outcomes for the vaccinated vs. the non-vaccinated it would require a lot more serious data inputs and considerations than that sort of foolishness.  You would also need to factor in the potential for adverse effects outcomes here as well but you're evidently in no way seriously putting forth anything meaningful with your sarcasm here,  so carry on. 

Back to point #1 
Natural immunity in and of itself is in degrees.  Some people have much stronger immune systems than others.  We know that things can be done to make our immune systems stronger.  As it applies to Covid we know that natural immunity is actually much more effective for some than others.    
Reasons such as age for example are easy to observe but many of the reasons aren't fully understood yet.  So vaccinations are just being applied to everyone of all ages, as though it is a blanket fix.  This is a concern that was raised in the piece about the 57 medical doctors that proposed ceasing the vaccinations.   

As Skywalker (love that name) pointed out we know that the length of time for immunity is generally greater for the non-vax via natural immunity vs the vax.  We are being told by some now that we benefit by being vax even though we already have antibodies from natural immunity.  Again, potential adverse effects are completely taken out of the equation or any consideration.   
They, medical science, continue to work on the vaccinations to improve them of course but both natural immunity and the vaccination can and do work together to move toward herd immunity. 

We should all pray and work toward the vaccinations getting better, in reality of course even vaccination just builds on God's naturally designed immune system anyway.  

[fifteenth]

In terms of peer review--i think you have the wrong impression. PR doesn't mean unbiased, nor does it mean a paper was checked for factual basis or accuracy upon review. It's not entirely meant to be trusted. 

One of the reasons peer review is valuable is precisely because bias can be present in a study. 

Peer review can, but doesn't always mean, the paper was checked for factual basis an accuracy. You can read the reviews and find out what the reviewers were looking for. 

And the peer review process is precisely because no single paper and no single review should be entirely trusted. The reviews aren't even automatically trusted. The author gets to respond to her reviewers and may very well be able to show that the reviewer was off. 

In peer review, when it's done correctly, everything is on the table for the entire profession to see, along with any non-experts that are interested. With humans involved, it's a good process we have for vetting our hypotheses.

[luka_skywalker_77]

I'm very curious on this point - what are your sources that a anti-parasitic drug that's often prescribed for livestock has any positive effect on Covid?  Is Covid actually a parasite?  Does the drug have a side effect that somehow impacts the Covid virus?  What am I missing here?

I'll be completely up front with you - I read through your points and didn't agree with any of them, but I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise because I realize we just see things differently.

But I'm genuinely curious how the Ivermectin train got rolling because I've heard this from other people as well but I haven't found what sources contributed to this.

(And I hope I'm not coming off as rude, that's certainly not my intent.  I'm just legitimately trying to figure out this particular viewpoint because it honestly makes no sense at all to me based on the knowledge I currently have).

What would you assume that this medication was/is only used for livestock?

"Originally introduced as a veterinary drug, it kills a wide range of internal and external parasites in commercial livestock and companion animals. It was quickly discovered to be ideal in combating two of the world’s most devastating and disfiguring diseases which have plagued the world’s poor throughout the tropics for centuries. It is now being used free-of-charge as the sole tool in campaigns to eliminate both diseases globally. It has also been used to successfully overcome several other human diseases and new uses for it are continually being found."

https://www.nature.com/articles/ja201711

In fact, taking IVM is a requirement for all refugees entering the US and has been used the world over for very similar needs. Two doctors won a Nobel just recently for their repurposing of the drug. 

https://ivmmeta.com/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8248252/
The most recent study from Argentina: https://zenodo.org/record/5525362#.YVtBvtrMKUm
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar...4220302011

and ...

Database of all ivermectin COVID-19 studies. 121 studies, 77 peer reviewed, 65 with results comparing treatment and control groups: https://c19ivermectin.com/

[Dahlsim]

Well trying to be as brief as possible with an expansive subject:

Prayer is surrender, submission, and seeking of the Creator's will. It is a constant state of being ("pray without ceasing") where a person lets go of their will in order to seek and push for the Creator's will. The epitome of this is seen in the "Lord's Prayer" and in the Garden of Gethsemane before Jesus's crucifixion.

The Lord's Prayer is a series of commands (imperative verbs) to the Creator Father, demanding that his will be done. So it is a passive surrendering of my will, but an active grabbing of the Creator's will. 

Πάτερ ἡμῶν ὁ ἐν τοῖς οὐρανοῖς· ("our Father who is in the invisible realm") ἁγιασθήτω τὸ ὄνομα σου· ("make your name holy") ἐλθέτω ἡ βασιλεία σου· ("bring your rule") γενηθήτω τὸ θέλημα σου, ("make your will happen") ὡς ἐν οὐρανῷ καὶ ἐπὶ γῆς· ("as in the invisible realm also in the visible realm") τὸν ἄρτον ἡμῶν τὸν ἐπιούσιον δὸς ἡμῖν σήμερον· ("give to us this day our sustenance that is necessary for the moment") καὶ ἄφες ἡμῖν τὰ ὀφειλήματα ἡμῶν, ὡς καὶ ἡμεῖς ἀφήκαμεν τοῖς ὀφειλέταις ἡμῶν· ("and forgive us our debts as we forgive those who are in debt to us") καὶ μὴ εἰσενέγκῃς ἡμᾶς εἰς πειρασμόν, ἀλλὰ ρῦσαι ἡμᾶς ἀπὸ τοῦ πονηροῦ. ("and do not abandon us in trial, but rescue us from what is unnatural")

The prayer in the Garden of Gethsemane recognizes the selfish will, but then lays it at the altar of the Creator's will.

πάτερ μου, εἰ δυνατόν ἐστιν, παρελθάτω ἀπ᾿ ἐμοῦ τὸ ποτήριον τοῦτο· ("my Father, if it is possible, remove this cup from me") πλὴν οὐχ ὡς ἐγὼ θέλω ἀλλ᾿ ὡς σύ. ("but not as I will, but as you will")

So point being: Prayer is not a genie or a vending-machine where we come to get what we "want." Such a thing has nothing to do with prayer. Prayer is a constant seeking (and demanding) of the Creator's will, which as we see in the case of Jesus, does not lead to immediate healing, comfort, or prosperity, but to the life of the cross, the path of self-sacrifice and death at the hands of our enemies...even as we wait on the Creator for his work of resurrection. The Creator's will is resurrection through death. To pray therefore is to seek resurrection through death. The genie or vending machine imagery wants to bypass death and that is not the Father's will.

Excellent post on prayer @"Kammrath". 

I was inspired in a song I wrote once (The Spirit often communicates to me within music) with this understanding as well about prayer. 
Prayer and worship is something God gave to us so that we could give something back to Him which He would enjoy.   
We would have nothing to offer God unless he constructed something we could offer to Him because He is already by nature the man who has everything. 

Genie in the bottle theology is an unfortunate dumbing down of many bible teachers.  Ask and it shall be given you for example is a promise of Christ in scripture.  Lifted out of context it can produce that sort of Genie Theology.   
Give and it shall be given unto you, good measure, pressed down shaken together and running over shall men heap into your bosom.  Again, an awesome promise, often used to raise donations and offering but taken completely out of it's context. 

Prayer is all about a real, active and progressive relationship between the creature and the Creator.