NEWS: Donnie out | Nico Harrison (Nike) as Pres/GM | Fin as VP | Dirk as Advisor

[KillerLeft]

I myself would just want to be a fly on the wall with everything going on. Like a never ending "Draft Day" movie!

PLEASE!

You're telling me you'd sit idly by while negotiations with THJ's agent kept reaching higher and higher figures? 

You'd meddle just as much as anyone, my guy.

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The mistake he made with Bob may well not have been in hiring him -- a new perspective might have been for the best. Hiring him outside the organizational structure, so that no one understood what his role was, might not have been the greatest idea, but didn't have to be fatal. The failure to attend to, understand, acknowledge, and deal with the massive problems that ensued, and letting the situation get totally away from him, seems to be the consensus fatal error. Fiddling while Rome burns kind of stuff.

Couldn't agree more.

[ItsGoTime]

PLEASE!

You're telling me you'd sit idly by while negotiations with THJ's agent kept reaching higher and higher figures? 

You'd meddle just as much as anyone, my guy.

Fair point. I might just watch my GM screw himself, then fire him before the deal is done. For sure, I would have let Donnie go shortly after the toine/tawn year. Then again, that attitude is also probably why I don't have the billions that Cuban has (among other things).

[HanspardsShowerVoice]

I just think there's a sizable difference between entrusting the part of the organization that isn't exciting (the business side - he has much more interesting businesses than the Mavs to satisfy that itch) to someone else and ceding power over the fun side, which is why anyone would buy a sports team in the first place. 

I'm not even hating him for being too involved on the basketball side, honestly. It's his money, and if we're honest with ourselves we'll all admit that we'd be the same, exact way about it. I just wish he was much better at this. That's all.

So far all we can say is that Cuban really hates making changes at the HC and GM position, but the few times he has  hey went out and got highly respected people to fill the job.    The only hires have been Rick Carlisle, who he hired outside the organization and was regarded as the best coach on the market, and Avery who revisionist history has rewritten as this Mavs/Cuban crony but actually was highly regarded at the time as an up and coming coach.    He was groomed by Pop and personally selected by Nellie to be his successor, to the point where Avery was acting as the de facto head coach while Nellie was out for extended time with a shoulder surgery.    

So if Cuban goes out, yet again, and hires outside the organization and brings in respected NBA guy to be his new GM, I wonder if people will stop and readjust their priors?  I'm guessing probably not.   People are just too addicted to their narratives about Cuban.

[Branduil]

Believe me, if Cuban goes out and hires Masai, I will definitely praise him for that.

[KillerLeft]

So if Cuban goes out, yet again, and hires outside the organization and brings in respected NBA guy to be his new GM, I wonder if people will stop and readjust their priors?  I'm guessing probably not.   People are just too addicted to their narratives about Cuban.

It won't change my opinions about Cuban from the time of purchase until now, no. 

It will inspire some hope from me that he has changed, and motivate me to approach the near future with more optimism.

BTW: it's a good point about the Carlisle hire, originally.

[ItsGoTime]

So far all we can say is that Cuban really hates making changes at the HC and GM position, but the few times he has  hey went out and got highly respected people to fill the job.    The only hires have been Rick Carlisle, who he hired outside the organization and was regarded as the best coach on the market, and Avery who revisionist history has rewritten as this Mavs/Cuban crony but actually was highly regarded at the time as an up and coming coach.    He was groomed by Pop and personally selected by Nellie to be his successor, to the point where Avery was acting as the de facto head coach while Nellie was out for extended time with a shoulder surgery.    

So if Cuban goes out, yet again, and hires outside the organization and brings in respected NBA guy to be his new GM, I wonder if people will stop and readjust their priors?  I'm guessing probably not.   People are just too addicted to their narratives about Cuban.

Advantage of the wait and see approach is you don’t have to go back and readjust your priors.

[Kammrath]

People are just too addicted to their narratives about Cuban.

BINGO.

I really don't understand the psychology of this, but it is such a real phenomenon, and not just around here.

[HanspardsShowerVoice]

BINGO.

I really don't understand the psychology of this, but it is such a real phenomenon, and not just around here.

I'm guessing an inordinate amount of these people weren't Mav fans pre Dirk.   If they think losing to the Clippers in 7 games while having a 22 year old All NBA player is a "dumpster fire" and a low point of the franchise, you definitely weren't around in the 90s.

[ClutchDirk]

https://twitter.com/FAN590/status/1407067045485846532

[KillerLeft]

I really don't understand the psychology of this, but it is such a real phenomenon, and not just around here.

What about people's "narratives" about Donnie? RC? Luka? Size? Wingspan? Defense vs. offense? 

Out of all the things we talk about, you think people's narratives about Cuban are actually a problem? 

It seems like you're suggesting that opinions with which you disagree are narratives, to which people are addicted, born from involuntary psychology, but that your opinions are based on logic and reason. Say it ain't so, Kamm.

[Kammrath]

https://twitter.com/FAN590/status/1407067045485846532

Not bizarre at all. He has the chance to GM in other situations where getting to the top is a MUCH clearer path.....

.....*cough* DAL *cough*

[fifteenth]

So far all we can say is that Cuban really hates making changes at the HC and GM position, but the few times he has  hey went out and got highly respected people to fill the job.    The only hires have been Rick Carlisle, who he hired outside the organization and was regarded as the best coach on the market, and Avery who revisionist history has rewritten as this Mavs/Cuban crony but actually was highly regarded at the time as an up and coming coach.    He was groomed by Pop and personally selected by Nellie to be his successor, to the point where Avery was acting as the de facto head coach while Nellie was out for extended time with a shoulder surgery.    

So if Cuban goes out, yet again, and hires outside the organization and brings in respected NBA guy to be his new GM, I wonder if people will stop and readjust their priors?  I'm guessing probably not.   People are just too addicted to their narratives about Cuban.

Can't speak for others, but for my part, I haven't been ranting about Cuban since he blew up the championship team. I gave it a good long break because it seemed like the Mavs were doing better. 

The stuff I've been complaining about this time is what happened this time. And we're still in the middle of "this time".

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Not bizarre at all. He has the chance to GM in other situations where getting to the top is a MUCH clearer path.....

.....*cough* DAL *cough*

@"HanspardsShowerVoice", this would shut my Cuban angst up for a good while I think!

[Kammrath]

What about people's "narratives" about Donnie? RC? Luka? Size? Wingspan? Defense vs. offense? 

Out of all the things we talk about, you think people's narratives about Cuban are actually a problem? 

It seems like you're suggesting that opinions with which you disagree are narratives, to which people are addicted, born from involuntary psychology, but that your opinions are based on logic and reason. Say it ain't so, Kamm.

I am speaking to the DEFINITIVENESS of how many are talking about Cuban, when I don't believe they could actually have a clue about the real truth of the inner workings of all the dysfunction.

I see people speaking as if it isn't an OPINION or SPECULATION or EDUCATED GUESS, but like they KNOW. That's what is bizarre to me. 

I love people having opinions, when they know it is just an opinion. I do not care for the posturing that presents one's opinions as "unassailable fact." If you think I am doing this, just push me a little on it and I will be happy to respond and self reflect.

[HanspardsShowerVoice]

I'll wait and see on the prospects of landing Ujiri, but even putting the Mavs out of the picture it is really bizarre that he hasn't signed an extension with Toronto yet given that the draft process is kicking into full swing if that's where he really wants to be.    Seems like he's definitely looking for a better destination, and it's not just about money.

[KillerLeft]

If they think losing to the Clippers in 7 games while having a 22 year old All NBA player is a "dumpster fire" and a low point of the franchise, you definitely weren't around in the 90s.

Oh, no. Taking the Clippers to 7 is, I think, a huge achievement, which you'd know if you'd read my 1,000 posts about being patient and not expecting the Mavs to actually contend this year. I think the team was better than it should've been these last two seasons (right or wrong - that was my opinion). 

The "dumpster fire" is the way the organizational aspects of this franchise have come across over the past week. Maybe I value different things than you do, but I would be really embarrassed about that if I were Cuban, or honestly, anyone who worked for the team. I think they are embarrassed, honestly. 

Doesn't mean they can't fix it. I just wanted to make the distinction. You might not have been sub-tweeting me here, but if you were, I just want to point out that up until about 5 days ago I was one of the most positive people here about the Mavs. I'm all for perspective when it comes to building the on-court product.

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I see people speaking as if it isn't an OPINION or SPECULATION or EDUCATED GUESS, but like they KNOW. That's what is bizarre to me. 

Right, none of us "knows" anything. I agree completely. 

We should all be careful to remember that. It could apply to a wide variety of topics here, not just Cuban.

[HanspardsShowerVoice]

Oh, no. Taking the Clippers to 7 is, I think, a huge achievement, which you'd know if you'd read my 1,000 posts about being patient and not expecting the Mavs to actually contend this year. I think the team was better than it should've been these last two seasons (right or wrong - that was my opinion). 

The "dumpster fire" is the way the organizational aspects of this franchise have come across over the past week. Maybe I value different things than you do, but I would be really embarrassed about that if I were Cuban, or honestly, anyone who worked for the team. I think they are embarrassed, honestly. 

Doesn't mean they can't fix it. I just wanted to make the distinction. You might not have been sub-tweeting me here, but if you were, I just want to point out that up until about 5 days ago I was one of the most positive people here about the Mavs. I'm all for perspective when it comes to building the on-court product.

I definitely think the process has been ugly and messy, but the end outcome is good ... and really, that's all that matters.    Mainly, the MBT should have been broken up a long time ago, and that it's stayed on so long is part of the reason why it's so messy.    Relationships and boundaries decayed in a way that happens with stagnation and time, and familiarity brings the kind of hurt personal feelings where you leak organization dirty laundry to the press rather than be a Pro and just deal with it.     It has all he hallmarks of a bad marriage that has held on about 5 years too long.      

Falling into Luka has been a huge blessing, but it also added distortions to the franchise lifecycle that otherwise would have played out.    RC and Donnie should have been let go and new blood should have brought in to rebuild the franchise after the Dirk Era, but then we immediately moved into the Luka era almost right away.   And Luka putting the team into contention at such a young age sped up the rebuilding cycle to the point where they went all in on a high risk move with the KP trade before the overall team talent level was in place to make that kind of move.   But this is all in hindsight.

[KillerLeft]

Seems like he's definitely looking for a better destination, and it's not just about money.

Yeah, either that OR he's simply trying to pressure Toronto ownership into some type of commitment or action he thinks is important, but that they might have been reluctant to adopt, so far. 

But regardless of why this is happening, I think it's a good sign for Ujiri fans here or across the league. There's hope. 

For the record, it's not Ujiri or bust for me. I don't even know that he's the best candidate (might be, might not).

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I definitely think the process has been ugly and messy, but the end outcome is good.    Mainly, the MBT should have been broken up a long time ago, and that it's stayed on so long is part of the reason why it's so messy.    Relationships and boundaries decayed in a way that happens with stagnation and time.   It has all he hallmarks of a bad marriage that has held on about 5 years too long.

I think THIS is fair.

[Kammrath]

Mainly, the MBT should have been broken up a long time ago, and that it's stayed on so long is part of the reason why it's so messy.    Relationships and boundaries decayed in a way that happens with stagnation and time.   It has all he hallmarks of a bad marriage that has held on about 5 years too long.

Yep. More great stuff. 

To run with the analogy, we as fans are the "children" of the MBT. Many are blaming "dad" (Cuban) and many are blaming "mom" (Donnie/RC) and some are realizing that both "mom" and "dad" were really toxic and this thing ending is actually for the best.

[Branduil]

Really the biggest thing Cuban should be embarrassed about is the fact that two teams that were ahead of us in the 2018 draft and took worse players are nonetheless title contenders while the Mavs sit at home. It's impossible not to think that is playing a huge part in what's happened. Years of bad drafting and then betting big on KP has resulted in a supporting cast magnitudes worse than the competition.

[fifteenth]

I am speaking to the DEFINITIVENESS of how many are talking about Cuban, when I don't believe they could actually have a clue about the real truth of the inner workings of all the dysfunction.

I buy Gump's stuff. You don't think he knows some stuff?

I buy Cato's stuff, which is being supported by just about everyone who has some contact with the organization. 

I buy my own opinion about an owner that would allow his budy to usurp his GM and coach.

And, KAM, listen pal, do you not realize that you specialize in reading tea leaves and then speaking definitively about it!!!!????