John Collins...Our Third Star

[Kammrath]

In another must-win playoff game:

John Collins: 13 points, 11 rebounds (31 minutes)
Bobby Portis: 12 points, 9 rebounds (32 minutes)

I maintain my stance that ATL does NOT use JC like they are planning on retaining him. Still think they are aiming to sign and trade this summer. Been my hunch for months.

[Mavs2021]

John Collins is an uber talented version of Dwight Powell.  He's not a guy you give the ball to in ISO situations and say go get me 30 points playing one on one.  I feel like some of you are expecting that from him because of the max contract talk.

He'd fit great with Luka but with Cuban now admitting we need a secondary scorer/creator, I doubt Collins is near the top of the Mavs wish list still.  I wouldn't doubt he was earlier in the season when they thought KP was a real #2.

I don´t know. He has a lot of 30+ point games, because his mid-range/inside game is just on auto-pilot. You put him in a lot of PnR situations with Luka, I think he´d get 20 PPG easily, just from Luka´s gravity. Look what Luka does for Tobey on a condensed FIBA floor.

Yeah Collins is not a one on one guy, but when Porzingis pulls up from mid-range or tries to one dribble into something, I have no confidence it will be successful. Let´s not even talk level of Powell/WCS, who are so damn predictable, because they don´t have anything outside of kiss the rim range.

With Collins I get Dirk/LMA level of mid-range consistency. I doubt he´ll be available, but if you can get him, you need to do it.

You can still play the Porzingis card for Lavine, Lillard or Beal, whether it´s a two-way, three-way trade or just dumping him to create the space to sign Beal/Lavine outright.

[Scott41theMavs]

John Collins is an uber talented version of Dwight Powell.  He's not a guy you give the ball to in ISO situations and say go get me 30 points playing one on one.  I feel like some of you are expecting that from him because of the max contract talk.

He'd fit great with Luka but with Cuban now admitting we need a secondary scorer/creator, I doubt Collins is near the top of the Mavs wish list still.  I wouldn't doubt he was earlier in the season when they thought KP was a real #2.

If the Mavs can find ways to clear more cap space, they can go after Collins ***and*** a playmaker. On the other hand, if they sign and trade for Collins, they would still have the space to go get that playmaker.

[Chicagojk]

I didn't watch much of the Bucks series.   I really was rooting against the Hawks and couldn't watch the games for entertainment.   It looks like Collins wasn't as big of a factor in the final series.   They really needed him to step up as the scoring option without Young.    

With that being said, he impressed me with the first two series.  He clearly bought into the role they asked for him and I thought he was really good.   Long-term, I am sure he would want a bigger offensive role in the future and not a 4thish option moving forward.

The Hawks will have an interesting decision this offseason.  I assume that Collins would be fine back in ATL if they matched his asking price.   But the Hawks have three young players who could eventually be a better  fit than Collins in time, but they are probably not ready to fill that role now.    I wouldn't think the Hawks will lose an asset for nothing especially after their run.  But their GM is not afraid to follow his vision.   30 million for Collins is probably not what he envisions for their team moving forward.

[Branduil]

The thing about Collins is he stops being an "asset" for the Hawks if he underperforms as a max salary guy... instead he becomes another KP or Wiggins. So that's a risk they must consider. I think especially with the potential emergence of Reddish there's a chance for the Mavs to steal him with the price being limited to Maxi, who could basically fit with how they're already using Collins as a 3&D big.

[KillerLeft]

The thing about Collins is he stops being an "asset" for the Hawks if he underperforms as a max salary guy... instead he becomes another KP or Wiggins. So that's a risk they must consider. I think especially with the potential emergence of Reddish there's a chance for the Mavs to steal him with the price being limited to Maxi, who could basically fit with how they're already using Collins as a 3&D big.

I was originally very high on Collins, and one of his first fans around here, but I'm honestly starting to feel like he's going to get a contract that ensures he'll be viewed as an under-performer, especially next to a guy like KP. It's 50% intuition, mind you, so I could be wrong. I just have a bad feeling about Collins on his next deal. A lot of Hawks fans despise him.

[Tyler]

I was originally very high on Collins, and one of his first fans around here, but I'm honestly starting to feel like he's going to get a contract that ensures he'll be viewed as an under-performer, especially next to a guy like KP. It's 50% intuition, mind you, so I could be wrong. I just have a bad feeling about Collins on his next deal. A lot of Hawks fans despise him.

Assuming they're still interested under new management, doubts about whether Collins will be worth a max deal is a best case scenario for Dallas. After all, no-brainer max-level RFAs never change teams. It's the risk that creates the opportunity.

Regarding fan sentiment, every team has a scapegoat. Hawks fans LOVED Collins before Trae took over. But if they want to turn on a good player and push him elsewhere, that's fine by me.

[KillerLeft]

Regarding fan sentiment, every team has a scapegoat. Hawks fans LOVED Collins before Trae took over. But if they want to turn on a good player and push him elsewhere, that's fine by me.

Sure, but...I think I agree with their complaints, in this case. 

I might still be on board if I knew what was coming with the KP situation. If KP is gone, I'm more interested. If he's still here, I think pairing Collins with him is a one-way ticket to an even worse defense. Neither is strong, neither wants to rebound (Collins is better there, but not good enough to carry a team in that area) and neither is a "dirty work" player. I have read here that Collins can defend on the wing after switches, but MOST Hawks people I read (not just fans) seem to passionately suggest otherwise. If neither KP nor Collins can do that...idk. 

Offensively, they are obviously compatible, but that would be TWO max salaries paid to players who cannot create their own shot. I don't know that I feel very good about that direction. 

Now, tell me KP is gone, and there's an athlete at center? Collins starts to look better to me in that situation.

[omahen]

Assuming they're still interested under new management, doubts about whether Collins will be worth a max deal is a best case scenario for Dallas. After all, no-brainer max-level RFAs never change teams. It's the risk that creates the opportunity.

Regarding fan sentiment, every team has a scapegoat. Hawks fans LOVED Collins before Trae took over. But if they want to turn on a good player and push him elsewhere, that's fine by me.

After such a good result Atlanta needs to think only about how to get player. Letting Collins walk is not it, they don't get cap space to replace him or anything. My prediction - they will match any offer and only SnT him if the return is very good. Kleber is certainly not enough, imho.

[DanSchwartzgan]

After such a good result Atlanta needs to think only about how to get player. Letting Collins walk is not it, they don't get cap space to replace him or anything. My prediction - they will match any offer and only SnT him if the return is very good. Kleber is certainly not enough, imho.

There is a pretty good Collins discussion on today’s “The NBA Podcast”.  Collins is strictly a PF in an era where the position is often played by two position guys.  He’s not a center and he’s not a SF, which limits his value.  One guy thinks he’s a $17mm/$18mm guy.  The other thought you might get as high as $22 million before he becomes a negative trade asset (all of which lines up with the point Tyler is making about attainability).

They also pointed out something that might override the “after such a good result” sentiment and that is their cap once Young gets his max in 2022 and all these young rookie contract guys want to get paid.  Next thing you know they are not these overachieving darlings on cheap deals that allow you to sign Gallinari and Bodgonovic.  They are expensive and all that salary keeps Atl from adding the final piece as they need to shed money, not add it.  The two points they made were 1. Atl could probably use a “consolidation trade”.  2. You can’t just match any number for Collins and expect to easily trade him.

[Kammrath]

You can’t just match any number for Collins and expect to easily trade him.

Which is why sign and trade is ATL's tactic THIS summer IMO.

[Kammrath]

https://twitter.com/MikeAScotto/status/1...4106833927

[ItsGoTime]

Is there a world where a Portis/Holmes tandem is better than a Collins/KP one taking salary out of the equation? I know what a few will say to that, just wonder about those who have some hope in KP. If you add in the salary you think both tandems will come out of FA with, is the difference made up with the money you can spend elsewhere?

[KillerLeft]

Is there a world where a Portis/Holmes tandem is better than a Collins/KP one taking salary out of the equation? I know what a few will say to that, just wonder about those who have some hope in KP. If you add in the salary you think both tandems will come out of FA with, is the difference made up with the money you can spend elsewhere?

IMO, Holmes with either Collins or KP (preferably Collins) is better than the options you provided. Not sure if that answers your question's intent or not.

[Scott41theMavs]

Is there a world where a Portis/Holmes tandem is better than a Collins/KP one taking salary out of the equation? I know what a few will say to that, just wonder about those who have some hope in KP. If you add in the salary you think both tandems will come out of FA with, is the difference made up with the money you can spend elsewhere?

I would rather have Portis/Holmes - but not in terms of "taking money out of the equation." The $35 mil those two would likely cost frees up about $25 mil on the savings. And I think those two have a lot more "dog" in them.

[Kammrath]

Holmes...Collins

I want THIS front court.

[ItsGoTime]

IMO, Holmes with either Collins or KP (preferably Collins) is better than the options you provided. Not sure if that answers your question's intent or not.

I think the pathway to Holmes/Portis is so much easier to get to, but I agree that Collins/Holmes is most probably the best duo of the 4. I’m believing less and less that even getting Collins is probable. That’s why I proposed a 3 headed big rotation of Portis/Green/Holmes. I think if we could use Maxi to get rid of Powell and trade KP for something like Wiggins and #7 that could go a long way to remake this roster. 


WCS/Boban and someone like Batum as a big wing in a more small ball lineup or to help fill in for injuries.

[Kammrath]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2945...le-effects

The nucleus that remains in Atlanta's front office will then have to address the Hawks' unresolved negotiations with Collins. After another season shooting 40 percent from three and posting impressive rebounding rates, Collins continues to have his fair share of fans around the NBA. Yet, it appears at least a portion of Atlanta's decision makers maintain the 23-year-old forward's defensive shortcomings stand in the way of offering Collins a full max. It's believed Atlanta selected rookie big man Onyeka Okongwu No. 6 in 2020 partially as a long-term alternative alongside Clint Capela in the front court, and Okongwu showed strong flashes throughout the playoffs as well.

Collins never seriously entertained the four-year, roughly $90 million deal that Atlanta offered prior to the season—a number that would fall about $30 million shy of his highest-possible earnings—sources said. However, Collins' penchant for converting critical buckets, making big plays, and snaring necessary rebounds this postseason could now ultimately force Atlanta's hand. And many league personnel expect Collins to resign with the Hawks this summer.

It's fair to question how hefty a cap sheet Atlanta's ownership will be willing to keep shouldering. They already levied a mandate to make the playoffs this season, and Schlenk's group splurged with over $150 million last summer. Huerter appears to be another likely recipient of a handsome pay day for his playoff performance.

There's a belief among league personnel that the Hawks will look to work an extension with Huerter this summer to prevent the the third-year guard from reaching restricted free agency next summer.

[Kammrath]

https://twitter.com/sarah_k_spence/statu...2875175938

[khaled1987]

I don't remember if I said that before, but I want to mention that I really wish we aren't getting Collins. 
I really hate that overpay strategy for RFA