2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[DanSchwartzgan]

If he's frustrated with Luka, then that merits more watching. If there is something for him to be frustrated with, there has been a pattern this season of Luka driving and KP's man collapsing from the 3-point line to help leaving KP wide open at the top of the arc, but Luka not finding him. There was definitely one of those in the game and a bit later on is when the chair-kicking talk started.

What JVG said was KP was frustrated with Luka for not giving him the ball and then calling him over to a PnR.  We didn't see the chair kick because he and Mark Jackson were yucking it up on screen going into the commercial after a stoppage at 2:12 in Q2.  After getting six shots in 8 1/2 minutes in the first quarter, KP was hardly touching the ball in the second.  Here are the possessions and the KP involvement from the point he reentered the game around 6:38.

6:21  KP gets a touch almost immediately and makes a nice assist pass to a cutting DFS (feels like a continuation of the first quarter)

5:52  Luka fast break assist to THJ (KP doesn't touch the ball, but hard to get mad about that)

5:26  KP gets a touch in the post and is fouled by Harris

5:20  Luka 1 v 1 contested 3.  KP open at 3 point line

4:50  KP gets a meaningless early offense touch at top of key...just part of the initiation of the play.  Maxi hits a 3 on Luka assist.

4:22  THJ miss, but is fouled on a 3.  No touch for KP in this possession

4:00  Luka goes one on five for the layup.  No touch for KP (or anyone else) on this possession

3:21  KP calls for the ball and Luka waives it off and directs him to set a pick.  Missed shot, no touch on possession for KP

3:07  TO on pass to DFS.  No touch on this possession for KP

2:38  Luka goes Luka v the World again.  No touches for anyone on this possession besides Luka

2:24  Luka gives ball to KP, who isn't open, still standing in the logo.  Luka expects to get the ball back, but KP launches a passive aggressive garbage shot to signify he isn't happy.

2:12  Brooklyn TO and chair kicking incident.

I don't think this has to necessarily speak to their relationship...it might, but it doesn't have to.  As JVG said, it's about the ball and KP perceived he should be getting it more than he did.  I didn't like the passive aggressive action on that shot before the kicked chair.  If you watch some second half possessions, KP stops trying to be ready near the 3 point line and just drifts several feet behind the line completely unprepared to be part of the play.  I can't imagine it is easy to be (or think of yourself) as a superior offensive player next to Luka when Luka decides it is time to get his.  But, KP isn't exactly being the grown-up in the room either.

[KillerLeft]

What JVG said was KP was frustrated with Luka for not giving him the ball and then calling him over to a PnR.  We didn't see the chair kick because he and Mark Jackson were yucking it up on screen going into the commercial after a stoppage at 2:12 in Q2.  After getting six shots in 8 1/2 minutes in the first quarter, KP was hardly touching the ball in the second.  Here are the possessions and the KP involvement from the point he reentered the game around 6:38.

6:21  KP gets a touch almost immediately and makes a nice assist pass to a cutting DFS (feels like a continuation of the first quarter)

5:52  Luka fast break assist to THJ (KP doesn't touch the ball, but hard to get mad about that)

5:26  KP gets a touch in the post and is fouled by Harris

5:20  Luka 1 v 1 contested 3.  KP open at 3 point line

4:50  KP gets a meaningless early offense touch at top of key...just part of the initiation of the play.  Maxi hits a 3 on Luka assist.

4:22  THJ miss, but is fouled on a 3.  No touch for KP in this possession

4:00  Luka goes one on five for the layup.  No touch for KP (or anyone else) on this possession

3:21  KP calls for the ball and Luka waives it off and directs him to set a pick.  Missed shot, no touch on possession for KP

3:07  TO on pass to DFS.  No touch on this possession for KP

2:38  Luka goes Luka v the World again.  No touches for anyone on this possession besides Luka

2:24  Luka gives ball to KP, who isn't open, still standing in the logo.  Luka expects to get the ball back, but KP launches a passive aggressive garbage shot to signify he isn't happy.

2:12  Brooklyn TO and chair kicking incident.

I don't think this has to necessarily speak to their relationship...it might, but it doesn't have to.  As JVG said, it's about the ball and KP perceived he should be getting it more than he did.  I didn't like the passive aggressive action on that shot before the kicked chair.  If you watch some second half possessions, KP stops trying to be ready near the 3 point line and just drifts several feet behind the line completely unprepared to be part of the play.  I can't imagine it is easy to be (or think of yourself) as a superior offensive player next to Luka when Luka decides it is time to get his.  But, KP isn't exactly being the grown-up in the room either.

Great summary. And actually, you could look at this as a positive. Carlisle called a timeout, and then THEY PLAYED BETTER AGAIN. Clearly, in this game, some progress was made as to keeping them connected through the frustrations. I hope that can continue. 

It's got to be hard for Porzingis, once the king of New York City, to see Luka get basically 99% of the credit for everything good that happens around here. I think he was happy last year just to get his money (this is why he wanted out of NY), but now I think there are signs that his ego is hurting just a bit. It's only human nature. 

They'll figure this out on offense. Luka/KP are both too good, and Carlisle is too smart for them not to. 

If my dude can play at least decent defense like he did last night, the wins will start to stack up and everything will be fine. That's the only question I care about.

[StepBackJay]

I don't know if I would say never max a big. Jokic to me is worth the max for sure. Embiid is worth the max. These guys have skills beyond just a traditional big.

[KillerLeft]

I don't know if I would say never max a big.

Well, what he said was "a big with slow/unathletic feet"...Jokic probably falls into that category, and I agree that he's an exception. But Embiid absolutely is not slow.

[dynamicalVoid]

I don't know if I would say never max a big. Jokic to me is worth the max for sure. Embiid is worth the max. These guys have skills beyond just a traditional big.

 Ha I knew the Jokic argument was coming!  The guy is phenomenal...and slow...and unathletic haha

Yeah...you guys get what I am saying when I made the No Max comment.  Bigs that are slow but have elite instincts or elite skills are different.  I still would question Maxing them if their defense is suspect.  Jokic...questionable defense(probably displays better IQ defense in playoffs when it matters)...but the dude is otherworldly...you have to max him.   KP is a Unicorn but doesnt display elite skills.  Hard to not Max him though so I dont fault the Mavs.   Going forward I would make sure my paid big plays above average defense...no questions about it.

[ItsGoTime]

If it is a problem with a big ego guy wanting his touches esp when he’s mostly doing good with the opportunities and Luka is waiving him off, what superstar is gonna come here and put up with that? I want the name.

[KillerLeft]

If it is a problem with a big ego guy wanting his touches esp when he’s mostly doing good with the opportunities and Luka is waiving him off, what superstar is gonna come here and put up with that? I want the name.

Absolutely right.

[ItsGoTime]

"a big with slow/unathletic feet"

So he wasn’t talking about KP, gotcha.

[omahen]

Luka had an excellent start of the game. But then at one point he started to do too much. One very difficult shot after another. Can't really blame him, because he was on fire lately. But result wasn't beautiful. His percentage dropped considerably in the second half and he only got two assists. If I would have to guess, I think it is his competitive nature going against him. I think I noticed the pattern everytime he plays superstars, he wants to prove he is better. I guess subconsciously, not really deliberately.

But no harm done, hope he learned his lesson.

[ItsGoTime]

Luka had an excellent start of the game. But then at one point he started to do too much. One very difficult shot after another. Can't really blame him, because he was on fire lately. But result wasn't beautiful. His percentage dropped considerably in the second half and he only got two assists. If I would have to guess, I think it is his competitive nature going against him. I think I noticed the pattern everytime he plays superstars, he wants to prove he is better. I guess subconsciously, not really deliberately.

But no harm done, hope he learned his lesson.

Ya, I can see that with him. Lots of Harden comparisons for him early in his career, wanting to keep up with his scoring could be in his nature.

[KillerLeft]

So he wasn’t talking about KP, gotcha

I know you're just trying to be funny, but that is the literal textbook definition of what KP has been here for awhile, going back into last season, even. 

He did look better last night, and I was glad to see it. Was it improvement in conditioning and physical confidence? Was it a sign that he's getting into better shape? Was it simply due to an uncommonly long stretch of in-season rest, due to weather and the back injury? Was it a higher level of aggressive attitude due to the story about trade rumors? Maybe a combination of all? Idk, obvs, but I sure hope it continues. My worry is that at his size, with his injury history, just maintaining his physical ability (not only staying healthy enough to play, but staying healthy enough to play WELL) is much, much more difficult than it is for other athletes. 

I am not one to question a gift, so I rooted him on last night and will continue to hope to see more games like it. Jeff Green is VERY athletic, and could've been a nightmare for KP in transition, so it was certainly encouraging that KP held his own. I agree with others who've said BRK didn't really attack him in the pick and roll much, and I want to see him rise to the challenge against a team who does, but he deserves credit for last night. This was NOT an empty performance like the 6 block game against Minnesota, which was worth almost nothing.

[ItsGoTime]

I know you're just trying to be funny, but that is the literal textbook definition of what KP has been here for awhile, going back into last season, even. 

The only time I’ve seen this be the case with him is when he’s coming back from injury. That’s it. He’s not the picture you’re painting him in.

[KillerLeft]

The only time I’ve seen this be the case with him is when he’s coming back from injury. That’s it. He’s not the picture you’re painting him in.

The game against Portland last season in the bubble, before the playoffs, was a worse performance than anything he has offered since. He looked like an absolute JOKE out there. You or I could've helped the team more.

And, honestly, when will he EVER not be coming back from injury? I mean, these guys ALL get little nicks all season long, even when they don't make the injury report. That's just part of being a pro athlete. Some guys fight through them better than others. I'm just not seeing hope for consistently comfortable movement from this guy. I hope I'm wrong!

[ClutchDirk]

https://media.giphy.com/media/l3709n4zm8.../giphy.gif

[ItsGoTime]

The game against Portland last season in the bubble, before the playoffs, was a worse performance than anything he has offered since. He looked like an absolute JOKE out there. You or I could've helped the team more.

Exceptions to the rule. Every player has a kryptonite matchup. And you’re talking about second team all-bubble KP. Have to fully disagree.

[cow]

If it is a problem with a big ego guy wanting his touches esp when he’s mostly doing good with the opportunities and Luka is waiving him off, what superstar is gonna come here and put up with that? I want the name.

Echoes the sentiments I've posted before.  With how the offense is run today and Luka's usage, it's going to be hard for another super star to co-exist with him, much less our pipe dreams of a big three.  That's not excusing some of the valid concerns about KP.

[KillerLeft]

And you’re talking about second team all-bubble KP.

Yes, because he played really well OFFENSIVELY. 

It's cool if your defensive fetish, something you talk about constantly, only applies to guards. I don't get that, but whatever. For ME, it starts with the bigs. No amount of offense will ever change that perspective for me unless the team is being built around a big like Dirk or Jokic. As great as Porzingis is on offense, he's just not one of THOSE guys. That's not a criticism of him, there are like 5-10 of them in the history of the game.

[ItsGoTime]

And, honestly, when will he EVER not be coming back from injury? I mean, these guys ALL get little nicks all season long, even when they don't make the injury report. That's just part of being a pro athlete. Some guys fight through them better than others. I'm just not seeing hope for consistently comfortable movement from this guy. I hope I'm wrong!

I’m ok with moving on from KP, as long as we get his potential in value back. That is because of his injury riddled history, not because of watching him try to play his way back into game shape. 


Imagine making a conclusion on who Luka is long term at the beginning of the season when he was playing his way into game shape.

[KillerLeft]

Every player has a kryptonite matchup.

If basic pick and roll basketball involving a gifted ball-handling scorer is his kryptonite, well...that's like most of the teams in the league. I sure hope he/the Mavs aren't accepting it with a rationalization like the above. That's even WORSE than what I've been saying. All hope would be TRULY lost.

[mvossman]

And, honestly, when will he EVER not be coming back from injury? I mean, these guys ALL get little nicks all season long, even when they don't make the injury report. That's just part of being a pro athlete. Some guys fight through them better than others. I'm just not seeing hope for consistently comfortable movement from this guy. I hope I'm wrong!

To be fair, the only reason he started the season injured and had to come back from it was the super fast turn-around due to Covid.  If we had a normal amount of time between seasons he comes into training camp healthy and we maybe (probably) are not having a lot of these conversations right now.